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[Devastator]

Anyway, here's some stuff that could be added to the sensor package if it isn't considered useful enough.

Polarizing and polarized light filters should be added.  This would allow some determinations to be made about the shape of a hallway out of sight, due to the polarization created when light reflects off of a flat wall.  It would also allow for detailed readings of the stress on even extremely hard surfaces, when pressure is applied to them.  This would reveal information about the composition of a wall, along with things such as internal hollows, cable tunnels, holes, and so forth.  It wouldn't tell you exactly what's there, but it might give some help with determining locking mechanisms, booby traps, and so forth.  It also would require the seperate lamps, as different frequencies may be needed for the effect to show up in different materials.  It's also concievable that such effects would be visibly different for walls under the influence of certain kinds of space magic, revealing defensive automanipulators and so forth, although decoding those effects under fire would be pretty damn hard.

[piecewise]

Remember how I was looking into "wierdsense" before? basically wanting the ability to know space magic is happening?
How did the AoP's automanips detect the attack aimed at it in order to trigger? How do defensive anti-manips in general detect space magic in time to counter it? How did the Hebi detect amp/manip use? can any of the above be adapted into a space-magic detector?

Am not looking for the actual automanip, don't need the expensive automated space-magic box with limited charges. Just want the detection system it uses to know to activate in the first place.

Well you'd still need an automanip. Because thats the thing, the  automanips are the things detecting this. Like the Ghost Ship, the automanips have a sort of extrasensory sense that allows them to "feel" things not going right. Of course this "Not right" extends into anything outside the established perimeters regardless of cause.

Hypothetically, if you just want a detector, we can rig a sort of "Space magic" Geiger counter for you.

In any case we'll abstract the contents and yeah 1 for 3 uses sounds fine.

Write-up. Whadda ya think?

1 | boobytrap kit
Ammo: 3 uses per kit
Description: Do you like explosions? Do you like inflicting said explosions on unsuspecting passerby's? Then this is just the thing for you! A kit containing various bits and bobs for creating a mine or booby trap out of any explosive or grenade you happen to have handy. Has several possible sensors to fine-tune your flavor of sneaky murder (see kit's own page for more info). One kit grants you three uses. Note that it's contents could also be used in other ways, such as using the cameras as spycams.

((Nik, anything Maurice would object to/comment on?))

Hmm. I dunno if detecting lesho rounds coming will help you much but ok. I still dunno how much actual ingame use it will get because of the way things work out, but fine to make it. Not sure on the price though.

Well, that and things like it. It prevents a lot of surprises basically. What do you mean with 'dunno how much actual ingame use it will get because of the way things work out' exactly? Due to often having more cramped environments as opposed to open ones?

Can you maybe think of other uses of this kinda thing that would make sense to have according to you? Any other sensors we could add to the package? It's basically just a sensor package to complement cameyes and the sensors built into suits.

Xray can already see through clothing and walls. Though it sees more of a skeleton then a naked person and it only works on not very dense walls.

There you go paris.

Remember how I was looking into "wierdsense" before? basically wanting the ability to know space magic is happening?
How did the AoP's automanips detect the attack aimed at it in order to trigger? How do defensive anti-manips in general detect space magic in time to counter it? How did the Hebi detect amp/manip use? can any of the above be adapted into a space-magic detector?

Am not looking for the actual automanip, don't need the expensive automated space-magic box with limited charges. Just want the detection system it uses to know to activate in the first place.

Didn't the automanips detect the attempted change and counteract that (eg temp change inside active range), instead of the direct spess magic?

looks fine.

Basically what I was saying is that due to the nature of how things are often described, I don't know if it would help a whole lot. I mean, I won't have time to draw out the map that it would project for you in game, and there's a limited amount of description I can give you without that visual; and often people don't understand my descriptions anyways.  I feel like the thing might be limited by the medium.  If you just want to use it like a "Alien" style motion detector though, one that detects movement through walls and stuff, that might work.

The multitool Simus got for christmas a couple years ago. It was described like this:

It's a complex set of actuators, mechanical parts, metal pieces and sensors. It will transform into a tool that can be used to manipulate any basic mechanical device.

Would it be possible to add this or something similar to the armoury, and how much would it cost? Maybe we have to study it on Heph first.

We can do it, but keep in mind it's a mechanical thing; works great on something like an engine, but don't expect to solder anything with it or check voltages or something.

Cool. How much would it cost?
How big/heavy would it be?

How about a basic handiwork tool box? Containing stuff like a welder, a few powered tools, a lot of non-powered tools and some supplies.[/b]

If you can think up a good list of tools to put in it, sure.

I was hoping that it would work like a medkit or Miya's bomb kit, with vaguely defined contents. But if you need a list I can do that.

Spoiler: List of things to include in the toolkit. Anyone feel free to contribute or critique! (click to show/hide)

Welding machine (probably comes with a small generator)
Soldering iron
Drill + a bunch of different drill bits
Circular saw + a few different blades
Angle grinder + a few discs
Reciprocating saw + blades

Screw driver with interchangeable heads
Adjustable wrench
Hammer
Chisels
File
Hack saw
Level
Measuring tape
Pliers
Clamps
Small pry bar
Utility knife
Awl
Wire stripper/cutter
Ratchet
Scissors
Rubber mallet
Hatchet
Tin snips
Small jack

Tape, glue, zip ties, oil
Nuts, bolts, nails, screws, washers
Electrical wire
Pens/pencils/markers

There might be a bit too much stuff in here, but I think that with future tech most of it could be made smaller, lighter, or collapsible.

How much would a kit like this cost?

Uh...2 tokens maybe? I dunno, need to run it by the council. Size and weight though, Maybe 8-10 inches long, 3-4 wide, 10 pounds or so.

A kit like that is getting rather large, but not very expensive. A couple tokens. But it's becoming more of a large box than a kit.

Could I make/buy a revolver-like magazine for gauss weapons?
I'm thinking that, since one of the biggest selling point of gauss weapons is multiple ammo types, a revolver magazine could allow you to load multiple types of ammo in a single magazine and then switch to the ammo type you want to use.

I assume that the braincase mobility legs can be used to climb on walls and such?
Could I make a different version of the brain-case mobility system that trades the legs (and the laser if necessary) for thrusters? In case you really need to fly away really fast, in situations where just running just isn't fast enough. With the possible drawback that A) you have limited fuel and B) you have fuel stored right next to your brain. Granted, it's armoured, but it's still fuel.

Does the thing synthflesh comes from have reproductive organs?

originally? Because right now it comes from a chemical tank.

Yeah, originally, why not? I didn't really expect a serious answer to be honest.

Xray can already see through clothing and walls. Though it sees more of a skeleton then a naked person and it only works on not very dense walls.

There you go paris.

Not really what I wanted. Guess I'll have to ask myself, now that I'm back on ship.
Can X-ray mode see through unshielded containers and things like that?

How programmable are camEyes?
Could I potentially write/buy some sort of "focus" program for them? For example, something that uses the input from both eyes to determine distance and allows you to focus on something at a certain distance, so that everything between it and you will disappear and you can get a clearer (and possibly lower quality) image of said object.
Or change the colour coding so that things with different density appear in different colours?
Or make it so that motion tracking only shows motion that fits certain parameters?

This is tinker thread. I intend to at least try to see if I can get a space-magic-detection system going.

Yeah, sure, I'm not saying no. It's a useful thing to have. You should do it.

Sure.

Yes

Yes, but those would have to be small thrusters and would have very limited range.

Thats a good question. I guess it depends on your definition of "Reproductive organs."

Depends on the container. Cardboard box? Sure. 2 inch thick metal shipping container? Nope. Drywall? Sure. Concrete wall? Nope. It's an x-ray; it's stopped by dense materials.

In your head they're not, but we could remove them and change the programming.

Sure, though I question what it would be used for.

Sure.

Sure.

[Lenglon]

what I'm after is the "extrasensory sense that allows them to 'feel' things not going right." that you just referred to. I'd like to make that sense, alone, into a mod or implant. one general-purpose enough to recognize most forms of space magic without being so general as to make false positives.

[Devastator]

Lenglon, isn't that called the 'intuition' skill?

Anyway, I'm fine with the motion detector, was mostly describing how it works so it can fail or be bypassed under circumstances that don't require changing the world.

Oh, and I wrote more stuff for it a couple of posts above.

I also thought that defensive automanips worked by essentially projecting a field of 'there is zero force being applied to this area' or 'the temperature of this area is X' and so forth, pre-empting crude amp attacks and such.  You don't detect the force and then counter it, you are already being affected by zero force.  That would work a lot better, be more reliable, and make sense.  I didn't think amps give warning before the target is hit, and that's the reason why they don't have saves built into them.

This is a bit harsh, but what you're asking for a blanket of multiple saves against everything space-magic related forever, with no ammo, that never fails, and doesn't have any drawbacks.

If all you wanted was an automatic intuition counter against every use of space magic against you, that's a hugely powerful ability.  In your case, it sounds like you want automatic fives, or something that runs on the skill of your choice, (exo) rather than one that's less than convienent, and doesn't require you to even declare it like a normal int counter.

That would let you single-handedly tank a magic threat to yourself and anyone else around you, indefinitely, with no ammo limitations, and for a low, low cost.

That should be vetoed.

[Parisbre56]

Heh, Devastator wants to veto piecewise's designs.

[Lenglon]

Lenglon, isn't that called the 'intuition' skill?

No, it's not. and your rant that follows the above quote is entirely off-base because you haven't actually read what intuition does, in addition to completely overestimating what I'm asking for when I am linking it to a human mind instead of to an auto-5-rolling-automanip.

what I'm asking for would enable rolls to be made to react to invisible amp or manip attacks and attempt to counter or avoid them. normally that situation is an auto-fail-go-directly-to-the-will-or-end-rolls setup. this would just give the user a chance to do something. maybe make a dex roll to get out of the way, or an exo roll to counter them if you have the amp, or maybe requireing an intuition roll to even understand what you're feeling, to be followed by the appropriate reaction roll. whatever. basically it would give you a chance to avoid being hit. that's all.

[Devastator]

That's what my rant is accusing you of.  You want a cheap implant allowing you to roll dex or exo to save yourself and everyone near you from amp attacks, and likely, space magic in general, even if you are completely surprised, and even if your orders have you doing something completely different.

If you want such a thing approved, you should describe it for what it actually is, not something incredibly vague.

Lastly, automanips don't even need such a function to operate, as many of them counter mundane effects and attacks as well.

[Lenglon]

Devastator, I'm having trouble taking you seriously. What exactly are you accusing me of and why don't you trust the GM?
This is the tinker thread Devastator. I'm having to be vague because I'm playing with the black boxes and am not "in the know" about them. If the design I come up with doesn't work, then it doesn't work. As the tinkerer, it is my job to figure out how to reach my endgoal or endstate, not PW's. additionally as i am working on it, I might stumble on how to do something totally differeent and cool, and that's okay. it's part of tinkering.

I don't know why I'm being assaulted for using the tinker thread for non-deathtubes, but it's really obnoxious and you're trying to backseat GM for PW, which is wrong.

[Devastator]

I'm accusing you of presenting something that dramatically changes the game balance, by making the best offensive weapons (amps) also the best pieces of defensive equipment, as an unimportant piece of equipment that should be cheap.  If it's approved, it should be approved as what it is, not as something completely different that you've passed it off as.

I can accept that you want to make a broken character, that's perfectly reasonable and understandable.  I don't like it if you're getting it through misrepresentation.  What you described was an implant that gives you a vague feeling in the presence of space magic.  What you want is an implant that lets you use your amps in combat as defensive automanipulators.  The two are not the same thing.

[Lenglon]

you're projecting yourself on to me, you're overestimating amps, and you are assuming that PW is a crappy GM. what you're assuming I'm after, which again, isn't what I want, is something that any good GM, like PW, wouldn't let me have. That is obnoxious, intrusive, and disrespectful of PW. now stop trying to backseat GM and stop bitching at me for daring to bring the black boxes into the tinker thread. You are out of line.

Broken characters are boring and uninteresting. so are invisible undetectable unstoppable instantkills. I don't want either.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Didn't PW say he specifically avoids that stuff? I think it was in the ER talks, or mabye just in the OOC thread.

[Lenglon]

He did, in the discussion of how fighting the Amp specialist at Heph Assault worked out. why the Amp Spec didn't just make microstars inside people's brains through cameras. namely, because it would be cheap and unstoppable. so he made the Amp Spec do big flashy things that could be avoided instead.

he also put a liquifier automanip on mission 20 that killed people in the first turn via invisible space magic.

Devastator, let me be clear, what I want is EXACTLY what I described. I want a vague feeling in the presence of space magic. I want to have to try to interpret that feeling. I want to have to guess what is going on and how to handle it. I want to have a chance to avoid invisible death. I'm not asking to make all amps double as automanips. that would be stupid.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Mmm, true.

[piecewise]

Here's my position:

I understand the desire to be able to mount a defense against invisible space magic threats.  However, there are problems with this.

The first is the fact that I basically never use space magic except in big obvious ways. The last mission was the only time I remember when I had man made space magic being turned against you guys in any way other than blatantly obvious DBZ stuff. Well, ok, mind control too but you automatically rolled to save from that.

However, if I were to introduce a Haber Implant style thing into the game, that gives me the ability to start using invisible space magic.

Do you want to give me the ability to turn space magic against you in a realistic manner?

[Lenglon]

Do you want to give me the ability to turn space magic against you in a realistic manner?

Yes.

The Amp Specialist fight sucked because it made no sense and was all DBZish. I'd like to see a dual of creativity instead of dual of DBZ. one where enemies can't just flat ignore everything you do (Amp Specialist, AoP), and you have to actually care about things like if you are on camera or not. the inconsistantcy of space magic between what players are strongly advised to do and how to use it (minimal use of force, avoid flashy, avoid using at all) and what enemies do when they get to field it (large flashy attacks) has been longstanding and unusual, as well as how rare manips and ampers are in our opposition as compared to our own use. it just makes the field even.

also, I remember quite well thinking Lyra was under a mind control attack during the Heph Assault when you had her rolling to not cat every single turn. having some way to know space magic wasn't happening would have made that issue much less problematic.