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Author Topic: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge  (Read 26267 times)

mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #120 on: February 20, 2014, 10:31:16 pm »

Thank you for the amazing tomb.  By chance did my dwarfs child survive?  It could grow up, take the family name, and avenge me haha.
your son is alive

mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #121 on: February 20, 2014, 10:45:02 pm »

3rd Granite
Year began with a warning...

Don't ask me, how this guy even made it in here...
dawnofdarkness made sure he wouldn't get out again.

20th Granite
Good news!


21st Granite
Bad news!

Only 3 migrants before this annoying trader showed up.

24th Granite
Well, if this would have been finished a month earlier, we could have buried kamikazi in this one. But now we won't open her tomb again. So I think, this will be the place of my own final rest. It is somehow sad, that a coffin is the most useful artifact made here in Becordobar.


21st Slate
Only one more set of mechanisms...

Then finally the Seesaw of Armok would be completed... Or so we hope. Meph already started celebrations, but then Palu again rushed in...

There is a mistake in the construction! She talked something about bridges activation delay. Whatever she meant... It didn't sound good.
OOC: Seriously... Just when the last set of mechanisms is about to be completed, I see the flaw in the construction... I completely forgot that drawbridges have a 100 tick activation delay, which completely screws any synchronization with the hatches.

22nd Slate
Arcvasti now also joined the discussion... She, while holding her fifth child on the arm (who is the father of all those? The groinless ColdBones?) stated, that the system would still work... just in very unintended ways, but in the end it would work as planned... What am I supposed to believe, if even our engineers have no idea?
OOC: Uhhhh... I think it can work... the minecart routes will be completely fun, but the final result will be as originally intended... I really have to test it :D If it doesn't... ARGH... Sorry for confusing you, but as mentioned earlier, I write as I play ^^

24th Slate
I heard screams from the dining room. What had happened? I went to look. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?


HOW??? How did it get there....
Wait... Why isn't it attacking us? What? What is this?

Suddenly Roduk, the ice mage came in.
„Why all the panic? Don't like our new friend?“
This insane mage... When I looked down to the surface area I saw it. He had built a warpstone pool... and obviously started experiments with some of the warpstone our miner had risked their life for...
Now we had a pet forgotten beast... sitting in our dining hall...
And he explained, he would try to create more...
OOC: I didn't know the reaction runs automatically... I just build the warpstone pool and suddenly there was the FB...

27th Slate
The Seesaw is completed. But we decided to delay the tests until midmonth... This way we can do them live on some opponents.

3rd Felsite
We now have a second forgotten beast...


9th Felsite
I forbid the creation of further beasts... Looks like Roduk is now turning moleweasel into changelings... Well... I don't mind that.


14th Felsite
Even though we hadn't spotted any attackers, we had ordered everyone inside... It is about time...


15th Felsite
IT WORKS!!!! The Seesaw of Armok works!!!
We do not yet know about it's damage potential, but in any case, this is a masterwork of dwarven engineering! Everyone assembled in the dining hall to celebrate, and the 3 mechanics provided a quick explanation how the Seesaw works.

In general the Seesaw is made out of 10 lanes with 2 tracks each, which are mirroring each other, so overall all 20 tracks are identical. Details will be explained at only one lane here.
First the layout (in the active state):
z+2: (launch level)

z+1: (mid level)

z+0: (seesaw level) with minecarts here


While inactive there is a steel balded minecart sitting on each closed launch hatch in the launch level. The drawbridges in mid level are opened. The lever is connected to ALL launch hatches and drawbridges. When pulled, the minecarts get dropped into the seesaw level and the bridges raise (* here comes the issue I noted earlier, but will explain this later). The minecarts now bounce on the two ramps in the seesaw level, as the northern ramp is roofed over, and the southern way out is blocked by the raised drawbridge. This way each of the 2 ramps works as an impulseramp, always alternating the minecarts speed.
Now when the system is turned off by the same lever that started it, the launch hatches close and the bridges get lowered. Now the minecarts can actually leave the seesaw level, as the southern ramp does not work as an impulseramp anymore. The minecarts travel south over the pressure plate, which is connected to the switch hatch. The switch hatch opens, and with help of the impulseramp the minecart makes it up to the launch level. The minecarts continues southwards, but gets turned around by the ramp there (as it is roofed over it now works as another impulseramp) When going back, the switch hatch is now closed (** this again is not exactly true, explained later) and the minecart travels northwards to it's initial position on the launch hatch, stopping there. The system is now completely reset and requires no additional manual labor. It is all done by a single lever!

*: Due to the delay of the drawbridge the minecart actually leaves the seesaw level, drives up again into it's initial position, but since the launch hatch remains open while the system is active, the minecarts drops back into the seesaw level and by now the bridge is also raised... Just takes an extra loop.
**: Again the 99 tick delay of the pressure plate disengaging screws this a bit. The time the minecarts takes to travel from the pressure plate up the ramp south, and back to the switch hatch is actually much shorter then this disengage timer. BUT... the minecart goes through the still open switch hatch, but immediately gets send back by the impulse ramp. Now it goes another loop bouncing between the mid level impulse ramp and the turn ramp on the launch level. In practice it takes 2 loops (I think), but the only important thing is, that the minecart is on the upper level, when the hatch finally closes. In my tests this was always the case, only thing disturbing this could be a heavy enemy somehow getting into the system (which is almost impossible pathing wise) and massive lack of luck (as the distance the cart travels above is much longer then the one below the hatch)

16th Felsite
Elves!!! And they aren't even hostile. They will never learn it... Whatever... I doubt they will make it to the depot, considering they came from the north. Surely enemies are already waiting for them, yet unseen.

17th Felsite
Here they come! Warwolves!!!

But the Elves may make it to the depot first. Surprising. A single Elf speardancer sacrificed himself to save the merchants. Whatever... We need testobjects for the Seesaw! And the Warwolves are going for it!


18th Felsite
OH MY GOD! The Seesaw of Armok really deserved the name of the blood god! The gore, the pain, the violence.

Originally there had been 16 Warwolves and one grizzly bear.
One Warwolf reached the second pair of tracks (the fourth track actually).
4 more reached the second track of the first track pair, and 9 had died already on the first track, plus their grizzly. The 4 remaining Warwolves were now waiting outside, not daring to come any closer. Tons of bodyparts were littering the area. While the minecarts had a lower speed compared to the Heartgrinder, the insane hitting frequency and being smashed into the platinum walls constantly caused devastating results. And even more impressive was the fact that still all minecarts were moving synchronously. The impacts had not caused any problems at all. This would be our new ultimate doom trap!

(all battle logs look like this one...)
While I was still watching the spectacle, dawnofdarkness rushed at me... Out of breath she explained me: There had been more migrants later, unnoticed.... and among them... was another sorceror... An arcane protector! He had casted a spell at dawnofdarkness.

Well... a healer would have been more useful. We have no intention of direct battles, and even less do we want to field mages. But maybe he could still be useful at some point.
OOC: INSANE... first the Seesaw works at first try basically, and is completely destroying anything... 20 lanes is total overkill... wow!!!
And then I notice a second highend wizard... I never had any final tier mages migrating into my fortress... and now I get my second in this fortress, when I don't want to use them...

22nd Felsite
As we had no intention to engage the Warwolves in close combat for now, we took care of the Elves first. This almost got routine and was done quick. Meanwhile another Warwolf had stepped on the tracks, but quickly regretted this move.

23rd Felsite
Another Warwolf died to the Seesaw. With only 2 left, we decided to turn the whole thing off for now. Hopefully this would work as well...

24th Felsite
It worked!!!

All the carts are in their initial position, ready for another round. This is truly marvelous! Everything worked in our first real test. Brilliant!!! Still, now there was only one Warwolf left... dawnofdarkness and Cpt Crunchy started a race...

25th Felsite
They reached the Warwolf at the same time. While it was CptCrunchy that got the first blow on the last foe, it was dawnofdarkness blade that got the final strike.

None of the Warwolves had survived... That would teach them!

1st Hematite
Spring is over, and it was a good start into the year. Not only we were finally getting migrants again, but also we had finally completed the works on the Seesaw of Armok. And it worked perfectly without any failure, and it had destroyed the Warwolves... Now with the Seesaw being able to defend us, we could start the repair of the Heartgrinder. During spring, most of the masons were busy with my new rooms, which had progressed nicely but were far from completed. And then we had also gotten our two new pet forgotten beasts and a changeling. When I talked to Roduk, he grinned and told me, he could always make more... forgotten beasts or changelings... And then there were rumors about the sunsail. But I wouldn't put too much into them... We will see, what happens/if something happens.

mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #122 on: February 20, 2014, 10:49:47 pm »

I guess you noticed it, but I'm really enthusiastic about the Seesaw... Originally it was a fun idea I had, after I saw the bouncing minecarts earlier on. (the one that killed the 3 miners) But I never expected it to be that devastating. The fact that it is fully automated with only lever, makes it even more awesome. I'm quite proud on that design :)
This season really made up for the frustration of the last half year...

Arcvasti

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #123 on: February 21, 2014, 12:30:09 am »

5 children?  :o That seesaw thingy is AWESOME. I'm not actually sure that there are any forces capable f surviving it. Except maybe drow ninjas. Never assume anything about drow ninjas.
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kingu

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2014, 12:13:55 pm »

I have been following quietly but now I must speak. THAT MACHINERY OF DWARVEN AWSOMENESS IS SO BRILLIANT!

question: If all amterials were magmasafe, can it be made self-cleaning? at least as far as everything that burns
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mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #125 on: February 21, 2014, 12:31:40 pm »

I have been following quietly but now I must speak. THAT MACHINERY OF DWARVEN AWSOMENESS IS SO BRILLIANT!

question: If all amterials were magmasafe, can it be made self-cleaning? at least as far as everything that burns
Actually... The kind of materials doesn't matter. ;) It can be made magma self cleaning, even if build entirely out of wood with wooden minecarts ^^
Reason for that is simple. Enemies are unable to enter the two top floors... So the blood and items will all be on the seesaw level... But this consists only out of ramps and wall, which are constructions and thus immune to magma no matter the material. As there are the small gaps between each double track, it would be easy to add some drawbridges to bring the magma in and out. (bring it in from the south, drain it northwards into the mapedge)
Of course this would require 38-42 drawbridges in the current layout, so another substantial amount of mechanisms to link everything up^^ And bridges and mechanisms would need to be magmasafe.

mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2014, 01:17:16 pm »

15th Hematite
We don't know the reasons, but during the last week at least 10 moleweasel suffocated or died to infection. This is really strange. They were in the middle of our booze stockpile when they died...


26th Hematite
While more and more moleweasel are dying we have a new visitor.

I doubt we can avoid another huge bushfire... And there is another huge problem... It flies... I doubt this will end well. Everyone has been ordered inside, all works on my rooms suspended...

27th Hematite
As expected... the grass is burning. The Titan opened fire (literally) on some traders hanging around.

28th Hematite
We evacuated all masons, but one child stayed at the construction site. Well... now it is burning, and the Titan sits on top of my future tomb... Awesome!

1st Malachite
Oh my god... We forgot about another opening...

Leading straight into the apartments... And the titan found it...
After torching down a hauler, that is now lying there, burning it went up to the constuction site again. My future office... There was still an ironbone scourge in it, and now it was dueling the titan. Luckily the fire didn't do any damage to it, but at the same time hitting the titan was not easy...

2nd Malachite
The scourge lost the battle. The titan had a few bruises, but nothing more. And now it was waiting...  Waiting in front of a door leading to the main stairway...

When dawnofdarkness came to me, I knew what she wanted... Well, did we have another chance?

3rd Malachite
So I ordered the militia to get to the door... But what did dawnofdarkness suddenly do? She went to sleep? WHAT??? So it was just Cpt Crunchy and ColdBones waiting...
...when suddenly the titan broke down the door.
There was no time for thinking... Cpt Crunchy and ColdBones started their attack. But the titan dropped down the stairs, again towards the sleeping area... While it could hardly fight the two militia members, it could still spew fire. And it did so, burning down another construction worker and a legendary furnace operator. But our stout defenders would not let go of it... Again and again the titan was struck by the flying axes and the hammer. Until finally... it died...

They agreed on it being ColdBones' kill. Cpt Crunchy is always very humble... And dawnofdarkness? She was still sleeping... only few meters away from the battle.


4th Malachite
ColdBones celebrated his kill by naming his weapon.

Well, after all he endured, he surely had deserved that.
Meanwhile work can not continue yet, as smoke is blocking the central stairway.. Hopefully it is gone soon (aka the dwarves finally burned down)

12th Galena
Surprises still happen. The Humans send a caravan. Odd. As we didn't expect it, especially not that early, the gates to the depot were still closed... So most of them left right away again...


15th Galena
More surprises. Well not the fact that we are under siege, we somehow got used to this. But it's more the WHO.

Greater Badgermen??? Seriously? And what is a war alcavian? Well... I doubt this will end well... for them.

16th Galena
The Humans want peace?

We don't.

18th Galena
We wanted to do another testrun of the Seesaw. But somehow the Badgermen didn't even make it there. When passing by the bastion guarded by ColdBones 5 of them already died, causing them to abort the attack. But we wouldn't miss our testrun. The Human diplomat left angrily. Well, he obviously didn't know of the Seesaw.
And the Humans were even so nice to provide us some armored testobject. The Seesaw passed this test as well.


23rd Galena
Roduk created a magmaling!

Pascale immediately rushed in and claimed it... He needs it, he said. Weird... What could an architect do with a magmaling?

1st Limestone
The summer ends with not that much happening on the outside but a lot inside. It was ColdBones' month, when looking at the kill lists. He killed the fire spewing titan and defeated the Greater Badgerman all on his own.
In the fortress Pascale has ordered more magmalings, but said it would soon be revealed, what they are needed for. Also my new rooms are also almost done. Most of the delay is because we have started to expand the sleeping rooms simultanously. Can't wait for it.
Another thing we have to look into is the cause of death of our moleweasels. So many have died during the last season... We have no idea what happened here...

arbarbonif

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2014, 03:54:16 pm »

Another thing we have to look into is the cause of death of our moleweasels. So many have died during the last season... We have no idea what happened here...
Tame forgotten beast secretions?
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mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2014, 04:12:24 pm »

That was my idea too. I pastured them now deep down in the mines... Looks like it stopped the mess. But why did that kill the moleweasels exclusively? no dwarf or other animal had any problems...

Meph

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2014, 04:13:02 pm »

Another thing we have to look into is the cause of death of our moleweasels. So many have died during the last season... We have no idea what happened here...
Tame forgotten beast secretions?
Yes. Thats it. Pets dont wear boots and die. Your dwarves are only alive, because they wear shoes.
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palu

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2014, 11:01:49 pm »

You know you can use tweak fixmigrant on the trader migrants to fix them, right?
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kamikazi1231

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2014, 11:38:03 pm »

Oh wow moleweasles are quick.  You might want to run the clean dfhack command if they have tracked that stuff all over the floors.
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mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #132 on: February 25, 2014, 05:45:02 am »

Oh wow moleweasles are quick.  You might want to run the clean dfhack command if they have tracked that stuff all over the floors.
Actually I haven't seen any traces of it. Also no more moleweasels have died and the population has recovered since I put the FB's underground. So looks like I'm fine now.


An about the fixmigrants. I know, but mostly I don't care ^^ And as often I'm happy, when I do NOT get 50 dwarf migration waves, I don't use it. And then it would be inconsistent to use it when I want more :D

mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2014, 05:58:27 am »

9th Limestone
I have never been a great supporter of artifacts, and I don't know what they guy was missing... But going berserk is surely not a proper way to express your frustration!

Too bad for him he did it right next to the training militia and it required Cpt Crunchy to swing only once to end the story...


10th Limestone
Pascale had brought the magmalings to the roof... I have an idea of what he is planning...


12th Limestone
The magmalings have started spawning magma... But Pascale was all but happy about it... The magmalings had been floated through the fortifications, and two of the three dropped down... far down..., even below the sunsail... Still, the lowest floor was now filling with magma... It was all planned from the start... It would be a huge magma pool to feed our forges...

(the 2 magmalings are in an underpass one zlevel below)
OOC: frustrating... Should have used wallgrates instead of fortifications... but yeah, so it was a total failure... well... at least I have magma now, but i wanted a nice magmafountain with the magmalings staying at the top...

11th Sandstone
The sunsail has been completely filled. Even the magmapipes going down from the top next to the central staircase are now full with magma.


7th Timber
My rooms are finally fully constructed. But due to the reworking of the forge area the furniture is not yet completed. So I will have to wait for a bit in my temporary office.
For the masons the only project now is the expansion of the sleeping quarter. Once this is done, we will never have to create housing space again. This will surely be enough. (160 rooms total afterwards)
We are still thinking how to rework the Heartgrinder. The engineers provided some interesting concepts, but at the same time have also prepared some new kind of defense system, which they want to see realized. I just looked over their sketches... It sounds difficult and dangerous...

16th Timber
We are under siege. Guess by who! Yeah, exactly! 80 goats! And a bunch of Tigermen.
One hauler is still outside, and I have no hope of him finding a way in... And another one is in the middle of the Seesaw, but the Tigermen are too close... We have no choice.... Pull the lever!

20th Timber
The attack went like every Tigermen attack. About 40 attackers died doing nothing, the rest decided to run. Even our hauler outside managed to survive by running in circles... Only the hauler in the seesaw proved to be a problem. He survived, but somehow managed to get the minecart stuck between the impulse ramp and the switch hatch on the mid level... We now have to put another minecart on the pressure plate to open the switch hatch again... This should work, without any risks... we hope...

25th Timber
ColdBones's defense work got honored again. Someone made a figurine of his heroic deeds:


1st Moonstone
It looks like the Tigermen attack caused some calm autumn this time. Not much had happened. The availability of magma is a breakthrough for the fortress, and the completion of my rooms is great, but still it feels like it was an uneventful season.

5th Moonstone
Putting the minecart on the pressure plate worked to unstuck the the Seesaw. Nice!

10th Obsidian
Wow, the season and the year is almost at it's end. The last 2 month we were mostly doing routine work. And there was enough of it, so no one was left without work. The masons finished the apartments, but Pascale told me, that the roofs will probably need another month until finished. Most likely it will be done during the second week of Granite. And then there was a lot of smelting, hauling etc. going on. The engineers are still discussing the details of the new defense system, not sure when they will have finished their plans.

17th Obsidian
Rare guests!

Dark stranglers. Haven't seen those for a long time. Actually they were the first race to siege us, but were completely annihilated by ColdBones back then.

20th Obsidian
ColdBones had a decent chance to claim some more kills. But he forgot something essential. Ammo. And so it was the Seesaw that claimed 18 kills, before the Dark Stranglers finally fled.

1st Granite
The year is over and enemies are getting weaker and weaker it seems. Whatever. We won't complain. Overall this year brought 2 big new things. First was the Seesaw of Armok, our new unpenetrable defense system. Even more deadly then the Heartgrinder and with less problesm it had claimed quite a number of kills already. And the second big achievement this year was MAGMA! Finally the use of the sunsail was revealed, and we are not depending on coal anymore. Rest of the year was used for my own quarters and more apartments for the common dwarves. In one or two weeks that should be done, then we finally have to decide... A new construction in the name of Armok, or fixing the Heartgrinder.

mahrgell

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Re: V.4h Becordobar - Mastermind Dwarf Challenge
« Reply #134 on: February 25, 2014, 07:08:29 am »

quick OOC post....
I will make another screenshot post of the current fortress later today, but for now a few comments...
DF physics are frustrating... For several days now I have tried to read up some stuff, but I didn't get much smarter. I really wish there would be a sandbox mode, that would allow me to place tiles etc, to test stuff... (Yeah, i know, DFhack, blabla, but doing it that way takes me as much time, as just building it, as I suck with DFhack ^^)
Anyway, I will probably try my new idea, but somehow I expect it to fail forever, and testing it will be much more difficult then with the last minecart traps ^^ While usually I tried to reveal my ideas when I finished them, this time I will explain it before to show some of the difficulties I'm facing with the design. (and maybe someone has some brilliant ideas or knowledge to simplify it)

General idea:
We built a liquid shotgun. There is a very good thread by QuantumMenace about the topic.
But as you know by now, I do not want to use any power consuming buildings like rollers or pumps.
And then there was the obsession to try it with magma instead of water, for the style bonus points.

So we the main problems are:
1) drainage of the system
magma is pathblocking, even at 1/7, so a decent drainage is required!
Since I don't want to use pumps, I can't drain from above, but have to drain it downwards. There are few options for that
a) holes in the floor
no way, I don't want creatures or items to drop into the magmapool. Even less my own dwarves, in case I fight in there while the system is deactivated
b) floor bars/grates
Simply a nono, as BD will destroy those
c) holes surrounded by fortifications
this is was the best idea I had for a long time, as it prevents creatures from dropping down, but the magma can be drained. Construction is trivial. But it has some severe drawbacks. It requires a lot of space, that is unpathable, while providing little drainage (1 drainage tile for 9 blocked tiles... And you need some path between), which makes it likely, that the whole thing becomes unpathable, as the magma isn't properly drained from the pathes. Also there are some bugs with items and monsters getting knocked into/through fortifications, and a lot of stuff will get thrown around in this system...
d) stairs
stairs drain magma, but let monsters path through them and are indestructible. Sounds awesome? But it isn't. Monsters knocked onto a stairtile(or dodging into stairs!!! dangerous for dwarves) have a high chance of dropping down... The chance of this happening can be lowered, by using mostly floors with some stairs between, but there is still a chance... And if dawnofdarkness jumps into a magmapool, because she is so awesome at dodging some bird, I will cry!

My solution for now:
Spreading our downstairs every 5 tiles. Then adding another level below, that has the fitting upstairs, surrounded by fortifications. As no one should get knocked around on the lower level, those fortifications should be safe, but prevent any fliers from pathing through that level and forcing any monster back up, while keeping the loot of the fallen on the stairs tile. Dwarves dropping down should be no problem, as the simply can walk back the stairs. And even if they fight down there, there also shouldn't be a problem. Drainage won't be perfect at the top level, but this way at least all tiles of the level are pathable, so some way should always exist.

2)
Keeping up the pressure in the loading chamber
Many watergun constructions on the forum use pumps or an aquifer to squeeze the water into the loading chamber... I have neither. To load up liquids, you need 7/7 liquid level. When using the normal constructions without said pumps or an aquifer (or magma/waterlings constantly active, which I would like to avoid) the system would quickly fail to load liquids due to unstable liquidlevels.

my solution:
make the liquid more then one level deep, and make the minecart load at the lower level, which should always be at 7/7 then...
But of course this makes a lot of other things more complicated...

3)
loading magma
Even most waterguns use rollers to get the carts out of the water... But this could be also done with impulse ramps... But with magma stuff is much more difficult!
Now I found two nice approaches to solve the problem. One uses some weird physics, but requires the cart to change direction on the track. While I really really love that solution... It can't be done here. The system will have quite a few carts on the track, so that direction change would most likely results in carts getting stuck with each other.
So this leaves us with only the second option, which uses another cart to bounce the first one out of the magma. I just hope this works the way I imagine it...

4)
the loop around
QuantumMenace uses a very nice way to turn around minecarts on a single lane, without requiring more width... This is extremely space efficient and cool. Sadly it requires a roller. It is possible to do the same with another impulse ramp and if I would have known this method, I would have used it in the Seesaw, as it is much better then mine... But here again the method with the impulseramp won't work due to multiple minecarts getting stuck in each other. (the turnaround track would be impulseramp+normal ramp+fortification instead of a roller ramp+ fortification in his thread, with most likely 2 carts getting stuck on the 2 ramps) So I have to resort to some less space efficient method, but whatever... It should still work fine.

All the above changes also require some adjustments in other details, but really have to see that in action first... There are quite a few tricky timings...

Some discussion about magma vs water
Actually, for the efficiency of the trap, water is barely an worse then magma. Enemies are crushed by heavy blows, not by heat or burning, as those liquid 'boulders' weight more then any rock you could hurl....
Advantages of water:
- disturbs pathing much less
- accidents are less tragic and easier to fix
- much easier loading due to lower friction
- keeps corpses (food) and loot (clothes and metals)
- no restrictions on use materials
Advantages of magma:
- no pressure -> this makes the return of the cart of 2 z level deep liquid a bit easier
- no flow -> no accidents because of moved minecarts and no items (that are not molten...) are flown into unreachable locations
- !!!style!!!
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