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[Empiricist]

For example, Charles sometimes uses speech to mind control people.

There are also some more uh, *cough* "interesting" uses of speech judging how he would have "thanked" Mesk were it not for his decomp.

[kj1225]

...
I get here and I see arguing and further tips for the build I appear to be going for...

I LIKE IT!

[Radio Controlled]

Next, I suggest you go with Exotic weapons instead of Unconventional.  As far as space magic, Exo is entirely better; the only advantage of uncon is that you can also use advanced melee weapons like kinetic amps and monofilament blades.  If you do this, drop Intelligence to zero as well; the only uses for int are qualifying for manips, and having your character think for you.

Can't say I agree here. I also used to think amps were vastly superior, but honestly, they're not. With uncon also letting you use explosives and high-tech melee weapons (meaning you have a reliable backup once you run out of mindpoints), letting you have as many as needed, and being able to throw them away if shit happens, I think it offsets the downside of buying batteries (and maybe not being able to use manips if your hands get cut off or something, though that doesn't happen often). Though one could say will is a more important overall stat than intelligence (because alien mindrape prevention).
I'd advise that uncon is more versatile, but if you wanna go full space wizard, then exo is the way to go. Depends on what kind of character you want really.

Oh, good!  If there's anything unclear/missing, please mention it so that someone can fix it.  The wiki is perpetually a work in progress, so feedback is always nice.

+ 1 sideways 8

1: If he plans on using the flesh/mindwarping amps, high charisma is a must. That is charisma's only use.
Speech has been rolled way more than 5 times. That's why there's the joke about speech rolls always being failed or overshot. That joke would never have been made if there were no speech rolls. For example, Charles sometimes uses speech to mind control people.

Big thing with speech is that often, if you rp the stuff your char says, you don't need to roll for speech. So personally, I'd just leave it at 1 (so no penalty if you do need it) but nothing more, and perhaps wait for your first level up for that.

Amps leave the user temporarily disabled after too much usage, manipulators don't.

Overreaching with a manipulator likewise doesn't leave you drained and with a splitting headache, and has a far lesser chance of making the user black out, since the power it uses does not come from the user's brain.

Overusing manips does indeed leave one with a splitting headache. Miya has had it happen to him, though perhaps it's not as crippling as with an amp. Still, don't think running out of mindpoints doesn't hurt.

3: Sub-exoskeletons provide a +1/3, not a +3 strength and endurance. That won't make up for a -1 to the stat. You still can't use it to shoot guns with aux, that requires an auxiliary weapon hardpoint.

Yeah, turning con rolls into aux rolls requires an investments in tokens. So if you earn good tokens, it's certainly an option, but if you wanna use guns as a main weapon con is better (since hardpoints for high-end guns get costly).

If you buy a sub-exoskeleton model C, for two tokens, you get +3 to strength and endurance rolls.  That's six points to spend elsewhere.  Further, it allows you to use AUX rolls to control your exoskeleton like a puppet, meaning you can use aux in place of dex and strength for stuff like dodging and melee combat.  It's possible that it can even let you circumvent the CON penalty of a fleshtech by using AUX for shooting conventional weapons.

I would personally leave str at 3, and end at 3 or 5. Cause it's true that the decent suits (Mk.III or battlesuit) give bonuses that make those stats mostly irrelevant (because a +1 to rols for a stat equals a +15 in points, so you will always meet the str criteria for weapons). Except maybe for end, to survive inevitable hardship (though often dex is superior, cause dodging>tanking, except for when there's no dodging possible).

...
I get here and I see arguing and further tips for the build I appear to be going for...

I LIKE IT!

Despite the power gap between new players and more veteran chars with better gear, the ER playerbase is often quite accommodating to new people. If only to provide more bodies to put between themselves and the scary aliens.


@KJ: I'd personally say to take 1 point from int and put it into will (or vice versa) to get a +1/3 bonus. Then maybe put those charisma points into something else, again to get a bonus (though if you wanna either have a balanced, realistic char leave it, or if you wanna use the mindhacking amps).

[kj1225]

Okay, thanks.

[Harry Baldman]

Okay, thanks.

A good piece of advice to make your beginning experience more interesting and fun is to purchase a box from a fellow named Nyars, preferably a pentagon or so, probably best if it's green, purple or blue. Small boxes cost 3 tokens, medium boxes cost 5 tokens and large ones cost 8. It'll cut into your funds, obviously, but a lot of the most interesting and useful stuff you can get, you can get from there at low prices if you get lucky.

[Radio Controlled]

Okay, thanks.

A good piece of advice to make your beginning experience more interesting and fun is to purchase a box from a fellow named Nyars, preferably a pentagon or so, probably best if it's green, purple or blue. Small boxes cost 3 tokens, medium boxes cost 5 tokens and large ones cost 8. It'll cut into your funds, obviously, but a lot of the most interesting and useful stuff you can get, you can get from there at low prices if you get lucky.

Protip: before buying a Nyars box, go check the wiki to see what kinds of stuff other people have gotten, and which markings and stuff they asked for. For example, if you want a gun, the symbol combination for that has been all but worked out.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Piecewise always keeps track of mind points, but he rarely keeps track of ammo.

Even manip batteries?
...Manipulators suddenly seem more useful.

Also, roleplaying. Some people choose their stats to match the character, not to be the most powerful. I don't enjoy roleplaying a character with 0 intelligence, but who somehow acts intelligently. Or a character with 0 charisma who somehow acts charismatic.

Indeed.

(though often dex is superior, cause dodging>tanking, except for when there's no dodging possible).

Which comes up pretty frequently.

Okay, thanks.

A good piece of advice to make your beginning experience more interesting and fun is to purchase a box from a fellow named Nyars, preferably a pentagon or so, probably best if it's green, purple or blue. Small boxes cost 3 tokens, medium boxes cost 5 tokens and large ones cost 8. It'll cut into your funds, obviously, but a lot of the most interesting and useful stuff you can get, you can get from there at low prices if you get lucky.

And if you aren't...well...you might either get a non-standard power source* or a dangerous alien artifact that tries to kill you.

*If the alien artifact thingy was micro-USB compatible, I would find it much more useful.

As far as optimizing, make charisma and speech zeros.  I can count the number of times either stat has been rolled in this whole game, on one hand.  It's entirely possible to completely avoid using either of those, without losing any functionality except in very specific circumstances.

Charisma, maybe, but Speech has been rolled quite a few times. That said, make it 0. Speech critfails are hilarious!

If you do this, drop Intelligence to zero as well; the only uses for int are qualifying for manips, and having your character think for you.

And let's face it...if the past is any indication, you don't play smart characters well.

[syvarris]

((Sorry for using this quoting method.  It's less slow to use.  And I'm very very short on time.))

@NAV

If he plans on using the flesh/mindwarping amps, high charisma is a must. That is charisma's only use.

True, but those are high-level amps, and anybody who wants them has plenty of time to get them.

Speech has been rolled way more than 5 times. That's why there's the joke about speech rolls always being failed or overshot. That joke would never have been made if there were no speech rolls.

I know.  I can count to thirty-one on one hand.  And I don't think it's been rolled more than that.

Even aside from that, almost all speech rolls were irrelevent.  Flint talking with the sods is one of the rare cases where it's useful, but those cases almost never come up. I did say that KJ would lose functionality in some very specific circumstances.

For example, Charles sometimes uses speech to mind control people.

Yes, Speech is useful for that.  But it's too random and wild to rely on without being very, very good at it.  See:Charles, who is entirely specialized for that rolls, only occasionally manages to mind control people.

That is not the only advantage to uncon. You can have an unlimited number of manipulators, but only 3 amps

Which doesn't come into play for a long time.  And even when it does, I don't think too many people actually make use of it- Do we have ANY manip users with more than three different manips?

realistically, 2 amps and a decomp.

Won't argue against this, but I'm still really uncertain whether this is true.

There is a universal manip, but no universal amp.

Not true.  The AM has said that she has a universal amp.  But, she's weird, so I'll concede the point to you.

Kinetic shunts uses uncon. So do grenades.

Kinetic shunt:Good point.  I kinda consider it one of the 'unusual weapons', but that is certainly a benefit.
Grenades:...Are you sure about that?  I mean, I don't have any proof because I don't think we've ever thrown a grenade, but I think traditional grenades (pull the pin then throw) just require a dex roll.

Amps leave the user temporarily disabled after too much usage, manipulators don't.

Both use mindpoints.  People go comatose after running out of mindpoints.  Mindpoints are entirely a function of Willpower.  Amp users usually have higher willpower than manip users.

Therefore amp users have more mindpoints, therefore it takes more for them to run out.

I think in actuality, amp users just tend to be more aggressive, because none of them have ever caused an overload, whereas whenever a manip user tries something big everyone goes "HEY HEY YOU TRYIN TO BLOW US ALL UP?!"

Manips can be used as emergency nukes.

Very true, although how good a point it is is.... kinda debatable.  Do you want random people carrying around city-destroying nukes?

Piecewise always keeps track of mind points, but he rarely keeps track of ammo.

So, instead of having to keep track of two things for manips, you only have to keep track of one.  The same thing that would be kept track of if you used an amp.

Sub-exoskeletons provide a +1/3, not a +3 strength and endurance. That won't make up for a -1 to the stat.

Incorrect.  All stat-increasing equipment increases the actual number of stats, for all game purposes.  That's why the model C was invented in the first place.  Also, it's why you can wield weapons with a str requirement if you have an exoskele.

You still can't use it to shoot guns with aux, that requires an auxiliary weapon hardpoint.

Maybe true, as I haven't tested that.  But PW did say that Miya could get an arm brace to aim his handlaser.

I did say it was risky and uncertain though.

Also, roleplaying. Some people choose their stats to match the character, not to be the most powerful. I don't enjoy roleplaying a character with 0 intelligence, but who somehow acts intelligently. Or a character with 0 charisma who somehow acts charismatic.

Very true.  That's why I asked if he wanted a power gamer's advice before I started talking.




@R_C
Not gonna refute everything like with NAV cause I'm really really short on time.

I'd advise that uncon is more versatile, but if you wanna go full space wizard, then exo is the way to go.

I agree with this.  I think I said that?  For pure space magic, Exo is way better.  If you want to be a melee juggernaut too, then uncon is better.

 
@Sean Mirrsen from OOC thread

Had Stacy been an amp user, the Ice-9 incident would have killed a lot more people because you simply can't throw away an amp if you see it starting to overload.

However, we have never seen an ARM opertive overload an amp.  I'm not even sure if it can happen by accident- perhaps your brain going unconcious stops it?  If so, that would mean that every time an amper has gone unconcious then they would have caused an overload if they were a manip user.

Overreaching with a manipulator likewise doesn't leave you drained and with a splitting headache

It does, actually.

and has a far lesser chance of making the user black out, since the power it uses does not come from the user's brain

I think TCM asked for May's cheat sheet at one point, and it listed her as at incomplete mindpoints.  She had used a microwave manip a short time ago.


Also, KJ, just ignore GWG.  He knows very little.

[kj1225]

Given the fact he's repeatedly insulted my characters in the past I already do.

[Radio Controlled]

Both use mindpoints.  People go comatose after running out of mindpoints.  Mindpoints are entirely a function of Willpower.  Amp users usually have higher willpower than manip users.

Not entirely true, I'm afraid.
Mindpoints = used for manips = comes from intelligence stat.
Willpower points  = used for amps = from will stat.

@R_C
Not gonna refute everything like with NAV cause I'm really really short on time.

Not a problem man, just get to it when it's convenient for you. Or don't! Do what you want cause a pirate is free it's just a silly game.

Grenades:...Are you sure about that?  I mean, I don't have any proof because I don't think we've ever thrown a grenade, but I think traditional grenades (pull the pin then throw) just require a dex roll.

For nades, I believe it indeed mostly uses dex for throwing. It's mostly for handling and using explosives (like the nukes).

I agree with this.  I think I said that?  For pure space magic, Exo is way better.  If you want to be a melee juggernaut too, then uncon is better.

Beautiful agreement then. I'm getting all fuzzy inside. High five?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Do what you want cause a pirate is free

Yar, har, fiddle-di-dee?

...has anyone not watched that show? It's got that almost MLP-like quality of turning up in references in the most unexpected places.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I know.  I can count to thirty-one on one hand.  And I don't think it's been rolled more than that.

Oh, I very much doubt that.

Even aside from that, almost all speech rolls were irrelevent.  Flint talking with the sods is one of the rare cases where it's useful, but those cases almost never come up. I did say that KJ would lose functionality in some very specific circumstances.

Disagreeing here.
Still, as long as Kyle sticks with someone who doesn't suck at talking without being an idiot, he'll be fine. Probably. Well, he probably won't get maimed/killed from his low Speech score.

realistically, 2 amps and a decomp.

Won't argue against this, but I'm still really uncertain whether this is true.

Advanced amp users want decomps to avoid overshots.

Not true.  The AM has said that she has a universal amp. But, she's weird, so I'll concede the point to you.

And why, praytell, do you believe her?

Manips can be used as emergency nukes.

Very true, although how good a point it is is.... kinda debatable.  Do you want random people carrying around city-destroying nukes?

Also, do you want to throw away your expensive weapon/tool as a nuke that's probably going to backfire?

Not gonna refute everything like with NAV cause I'm really really short on time.

They had some similar points anyways.

However, we have never seen an ARM opertive overload an amp.  I'm not even sure if it can happen by accident- perhaps your brain going unconcious stops it?  If so, that would mean that every time an amper has gone unconcious then they would have caused an overload if they were a manip user.

We don't know enough about amp overloads to say that.

Overreaching with a manipulator likewise doesn't leave you drained and with a splitting headache

It does, actually.
[/quote]
I remember Miya getting a headache with his manip. Which is why, for a little while, I thought Avatars came with amps.

Also, KJ, just ignore GWG.  He knows very little.

...
Are you trying to start an argument?
Besides, I don't see you playing RotMG and putting up with Kyle's idiocy.

[Radio Controlled]

Do what you want cause a pirate is free

Yar, har, fiddle-di-dee?

...has anyone not watched that show? It's got that almost MLP-like quality of turning up in references in the most unexpected places.

Don't really watch it, just know that bit (and a few others) from its meme status. To quote the gm:

Hope I don't ruin your shining mental image of me as not an idiot.
Who am I kidding, right?

Besides, I don't see you playing RotMG and putting up with Kyle's idiocy.

GWG, play nice. You've been quite vitriolic lately. Is everything alright with you? I don't remember you being this way before. I might be wrong though (don't really know you outside ER) but still. You gotta be careful not to burn too many bridges, lest you find yourself stranded. Maybe take a little break from posting for a little while? Or at least only post actions and not get involved with other stuff?
And yes, I know how sappy that sounded, but honestly, I don't care.

[TCM]

Besides, I don't see you playing RotMG and putting up with Kyle's idiocy.

GWG, play nice. You've been quite vitriolic lately. Is everything alright with you? I don't remember you being this way before. I might be wrong though (don't really know you outside ER) but still. You gotta be careful not to burn too many bridges, lest you find yourself stranded. Maybe take a little break from posting for a little while? Or at least only post actions and not get involved with other stuff?
And yes, I know how sappy that sounded, but honestly, I don't care.

I've been thinking this too. Thawed is done with, right? So it's time to move on, whatever happened there can be settled outside of ER. If KJ wants to play, it's his right, and PW can handle that however he wants as the GM.

It's best if we all just Let it Go.

....I'm sorry, but they made me do it against my will. But really, we need to breathe a little.

[syvarris]

@Pirate reference
I have no idea what you're talking about

@GWG  "You wouldn't be able to tolerate his idiocy"
Actually, I've been doing a lot better at tolerating idiocy recently.