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[kisame12794]

Didn't your tank have the fatal flaw of needing to hand load the LESHO rifles? Which meant sticking your head out the top hatch?

[Tack]

I was hoping to try and tinker together microwave and kinetic amps to create an explosive one.
But alas, cannot open them, lest the space magic escape.

[smurfingtonthethird]

I have an idea for making SC2-Esqe tanks (but not so horrible) purely because transformation servos will turn a tank into a artillery piece.

[PyroDesu]

I have an idea for making SC2-Esqe tanks (but not so horrible) purely because transformation servos will turn a tank into a artillery piece.

Apart from being physically impossible, or completely unfeasible (take your pick, and it'll be inefficient both ways), go ahead.

Didn't your tank have the fatal flaw of needing to hand load the LESHO rifles? Which meant sticking your head out the top hatch?

I think I fixed that while I was playing around with it, actually. Still, I called it a monstrosity for a reason.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also, we need a main battle armor unit. Like a combat walker, like Star Wars AT-TE's or Starcraft Thors.

They have their uses...not sure if they're here. They're not especially great against swarms of infantry; they're good, but usually not ideal unless armed for that purpose.
I think? Definitely, if the UWM brings antimaterial weaponry.

So, if the UWM brings in anti-materiel weapons, we deploy things with... less armor?

I'm no military expert, but if I understand how those work, I think it's better to deploy more things that are more mobile and less armored. Infantry fare better against tank guns than tanks.

Who needs combat walkers when we have Avatars of War. A five meter tall synthflesh being, completely encased in thick slabs of shaped armor, covered in a heavy armored cloak. Main armaments are: Coilgun, Tesla Sabre, and I believe some flavor of manipulator. Also, Battlesuits. Standing three(?) meters tall, they are large suits of powered armor capable of shrugging of gauss fire like rain. They come in several different flavors, Melee, Long-Range, Hazardous Enviroment, Mobility, and probably many more.

The problem is, those are hella expensive.

1.Okay.  Sorry, but I don't understand what you want explained.
2.Well, presumably if we control the battlefield this stuff isn't as important.  But mobility is still useful in defense.  Take an instance of two squads shooting at each other in an urban area.  One sends a QC into the air, so it's effectively flanking them vertically.  Or if one area of the battlefield needs reinforcments quickly, several of these can be diverted much faster than land vehicles, unless there's a nice road system or something.  Mobility isn't always useful, but those are exceptions.
3.You still have to get the rocket to be within a foot or two of the arm, which is still a small target.  That's moving around.  I also doubt rotorstrikes would set off a rocket- they're not machetes, and rockets are usually idiot-proof, so they don't just explode under minor impacts.
4.What -exactly- am I not explaining?  I've been trying to go into as much detail as I can without hogging the whole thread (And I think I failed here).  As far as nukes... I think that's always gonna be a vulnerability.  I'm currently arguing for an infantry support drone, similar to the RT's role.
5.A rotor's speed is limited by the speed of sound, 760 MPH, at the tip of the rotor.  High-performance copters going at max speed are really the only things that will make the rotor go that fast.  For comparison, 20mm Vulcan* has a muzzle velocity of 2315 MPH, and is 102mm long.  The rotor probably occupies 5% of the space that it can occupy at any particular time.  Do the math.
*Gauss rifles fire a 20mm round and can explode the torso of their target.  I figured this is a fair equivalent.
6.Welp, it depends on exactly what it hits.  Assuming you didn't armor it so you'd have maximum speed, stuff breaks.  If it hits the CPU, you killed it.  If you just hit the gun, you disarmed it.  Note that you had to hit a thing that's two or three square feet, assuming this thing is huge, and it's moving very fast and unpredictably.  If you did armor it, well, it depends on how well you armored it.
7.Ahh, no, with pretty big quadcopters. Like, four feet wide.  And under conditions that really would screw them up, like 50 MPH winds.  :I
8.Yes.

I know you can't avoid it, but geez the lack of quoting is a bit annoying.
1. Why is it harder to hit a wide, low target than a tall, narrow one with a weapon? Or a "drop weapon," whatever that is?
2. The proposed R3's are pretty mobile. They lack vertical mobility, but their nice little tricks like "heavier armor" and "more weapons" (just try getting the electrolaser turret tail on a quadcopter) and "able to operate in strong winds" and "not an obvious target" balance that out.
3. Not that small, if it's going to be comparable in durability and power to the R3's. And if it isn't, it's not fulfilling the same purpose, so it's kinda silly to talk of one replacing the other.
4. You're making claims about how various weapons aren't going to be able to affect your quadcopters at all without explaining why. Do quadcopters create spacial distortions around themselves or something?
And I'm not saying that nukes are a vulnerability, I'm saying nukes are cheap, so you can't assume airburst and homing stuff would be rare and ineffective.
5. How many blades per rotor? And really, absolute speed matters a hell of a lot less than angular velocity for this. How big are we talking?
6. I mean the center part of the rotor.
7. Four feet wide...does that include the rotors? No way that would compare to the R3 in firepower and durability and such.

@Anti Materiel rifles would be more useful than tanks

I didn't say that, I said that the chance that the UWM would have anti-material rifles is rather high (especially since the hypothetical worker's rebellion on this heavily industrial world would probably have plenty of war machines after a year), armor* isn't really a priority.
*Armored vehicles

The irony of this statement... you realize modern "anti-materiel' rifles fire 12.7mm rounds?  Gauss rifles fire 20mm.

The armor of ER stuff is probably a lot tougher.

I have an idea for making SC2-Esqe tanks (but not so horrible) purely because transformation servos will turn a tank into a artillery piece.

Why would you need the servos? The difference between a self-propelled gun and a tank is mostly in the relative size of the vehicle and the gun.
_{And auxiliary systems and stuff, bleh.}

[Tiruin]

Also, we need a main battle armor unit. Like a combat walker, like Star Wars AT-TE's or Starcraft Thors.

They have their uses...not sure if they're here. They're not especially great against swarms of infantry; they're good, but usually not ideal unless armed for that purpose.
I think? Definitely, if the UWM brings antimaterial weaponry.

So, if the UWM brings in anti-materiel weapons, we deploy things with... less armor?

I'm no military expert, but if I understand how those work, I think it's better to deploy more things that are more mobile and less armored. Infantry fare better against tank guns than tanks.

*non-expert high-five*

On those military units and all-the Sword as well as what I've read on our standing forces are but minor pieces in an army-with us as specialized footsoldiers. How these works are generally what everyone sees in a battle.

There will be tons of us, and tons of them: not the battles we're so accustomed to seeing wherein parts get specific names--it will be huge. Smaller battles are skirmishes.

Now if our expectations fall flat to that kind of note: We'll be facing a minor division of the UWM fleet. Perhaps a regimental force at best-if they underestimate us. In general warfare, first will come the small, light 'speed' units to harass and test the enemy. At the rear are the commanding units-those who oversee the battle and coordinate the warfare. Following the harassing forces are either specialized "shock" forces to disrupt any initial defenses to weaken for the major push.

Those main battle armor units? They are built for battle-is the usual maxim. What their main purpose is, is to serve as a workhorse in 'dishing out as much damage to the enemy while trying to avoid/soak up/ or return fire', in general terms.

Since the Sword is armed mostly with amp-troops, Gauss Cannons and pretty much an AI interfaced with other ships-and from memory some kind of amp-controlling 'traitor' to the UWM, we can expect only one field of war technology in play. Kinetic output vs kinetic input, but that's for later on and to be discussed IC (OOC just spoils it or gives everyone else how stuffs will go; playing war council, to be short).

What we need is more of the 'battle workhorse' than those specialized corps, OR since we only know one facet of this battle (meaning: Our whole focus in ER is intentionally only at the Sword and her people) we should FOCUS ON OUR SPECIALTIES and leave the big guns to the GM. When you talk about a main battle armor unit-those are the costly, expensive and very powerful/vulnerable forces that SHOULD be kept alive. Only rarely seen in common infantry squads. Good thing? We're not 'common' infantry, and with Hephaestus in control (from what I hear), we've gained a nice slice of this cake the UWM keeps on munching on--we can churn out our own 'main battle unit'.

Problem being: What weapons do we expect to face from the enemy?

[PyroDesu]

As far as I know, we can expect low-to-mid tier armory stuff. Maybe a very few high tier. Doubtful that they'll have amp or manipulators, or any major synthflesh.

Also, we need a main battle armor unit. Like a combat walker, like Star Wars AT-TE's or Starcraft Thors.

They have their uses...not sure if they're here. They're not especially great against swarms of infantry; they're good, but usually not ideal unless armed for that purpose.
I think? Definitely, if the UWM brings antimaterial weaponry.

So, if the UWM brings in anti-materiel weapons, we deploy things with... less armor?

I'm no military expert, but if I understand how those work, I think it's better to deploy more things that are more mobile and less armored. Infantry fare better against tank guns than tanks.

Want to know the reason anti-tank rifles aren't commonly employed anymore? Armor. More armor was the response, and it worked. Quite well. Even modern anti-materiel rifles can't really hurt tanks (stationed enemy aircraft, small watercraft, communications equipment, radar equipment, crew served weapons and similar targets, on the other hand...).

Also, is anyone else getting the feeling that this isn't quite what we're making it out to be (and PW issued us only 1000RU for that reason)? I mean, we're only facing a mostly orbital-based planetary defense fleet, which means they won't have that much ground materiel and personnel. And what they do throw at us, most of it is likely to be cut down by our laser batteries.

[Tiruin]

Woah wait O.o

Did we discuss how much we know the enemy has?

Because before we deliberate on this topic...I'd really advise us to know what the enemy has at his disposal. In general, if at least.

Edit: Or, we're overestimating the initial response. I believe the psychology of rebels popping up-unless their leaders are known and reknowned-will be met with a small defense fleet. Probably a minor in the army to take care of it.

I mean..they do have a history of quelling rebels that they've gone lax, right?

[GreatWyrmGold]

A good way to answer that question is to switch sides for a sec...


You are a UWM councilman, discussing how to deal with the worker rebellion on Hephaestus. Known assets include massive industrial capability and advanced defense systems, notably including laser batteries which will shoot down most incoming projectiles. They may also have seized some dangerous weapons from an HMRC craft which was scheduled to dock there around the time of the rebellion, but this theory is unsubstantiated. They have a year to prepare, as well, and they will likely use this time to make weapons, more defenses, and war machines.

What weapons and such would you advise bringing to quell this rebellion, with minimal loss of life or property?


Ninja.

Want to know the reason anti-tank rifles aren't commonly employed anymore? Armor. More armor was the response, and it worked. Quite well. Even modern anti-materiel rifles can't really hurt tanks (stationed enemy aircraft, small watercraft, communications equipment, radar equipment, crew served weapons and similar targets, on the other hand...).

Huh. I thought people just made stronger weapons to pierce the thicker armor.
Without knowing the ERverse's history, this is just speculation, but the high calibers of common (ie, non-specialist) weapons suggests that antimaterial rifles might be non-ineffective again.

[PyroDesu]

Woah wait O.o

Did we discuss how much we know the enemy has?

Because before we deliberate on this topic...I'd really advise us to know what the enemy has at his disposal. In general, if at least.

We're facing Hephaestus' defense fleet. Steve sent them on a merry goosechase while we invaded, and they're coming back. And as I recall, he had it set up so that the planet was mostly defended by the fleet, not assets on the ground.

Anything from there is speculation on my part, but likely - Sods with low-mid tier stuff sounds correct to me, it's pretty much what we faced initially other than the special enemy units we got (amp spcialist, etc.).

Want to know the reason anti-tank rifles aren't commonly employed anymore? Armor. More armor was the response, and it worked. Quite well. Even modern anti-materiel rifles can't really hurt tanks (stationed enemy aircraft, small watercraft, communications equipment, radar equipment, crew served weapons and similar targets, on the other hand...).

Huh. I thought people just made stronger weapons to pierce the thicker armor.
Without knowing the ERverse's history, this is just speculation, but the high calibers of common (ie, non-specialist) weapons suggests that antimaterial rifles might be non-ineffective again.

Caliber's not everything. Yeah, more mass you're sending flying, but with a consequential reduction in velocity or increase in power usage. And when you're dealing with armor, too big a bullet alone can be counter-productive. Most anti-tank rounds either deploy specialized shaped explosives (HEAT, and it's falling out of use), or are saboted KEWs - much smaller projectiles that use a sabot so they get to ridiculous speeds.

[Tiruin]

A good way to answer that question is to switch sides for a sec...


You are a UWM councilman, discussing how to deal with the worker rebellion on Hephaestus. Known assets include massive industrial capability and advanced defense systems, notably including laser batteries which will shoot down most incoming projectiles. They may also have seized some dangerous weapons from an HMRC craft which was scheduled to dock there around the time of the rebellion, but this theory is unsubstantiated. They have a year to prepare, as well, and they will likely use this time to make weapons, more defenses, and war machines.

What weapons and such would you advise bringing to quell this rebellion, with minimal loss of life or property?

I distinctly remember one of our earlier missions. The Dam one? I believe that had the same concept-just a bit larger now...though it may be just me relating the symbol of 'Rebel' only...

Woah wait O.o

Did we discuss how much we know the enemy has?

Because before we deliberate on this topic...I'd really advise us to know what the enemy has at his disposal. In general, if at least.

We're facing Hephaestus' defense fleet. Steve sent them on a merry goosechase while we invaded, and they're coming back. And as I recall, he had it set up so that the planet was mostly defended by the fleet, not assets on the ground.

Anything from there is speculation on my part, but likely - Sods with low-mid tier stuff sounds correct to me, it's pretty much what we faced initially other than the special enemy units we got (amp spcialist, etc.).

So we're actually facing Quantity instead of Quality? When you say 'defense fleet', you're talking about those who defend the air and space above the stratosphere of Hephaestus, right? Then it concerns itself more with anti-ship based weaponry--wherein a good boarding squad will easily fix. Board and jump and repeat.

Because I doubt there'd be many dropships in that kind of fleet given that context.

Interesting.

[Taricus]

You are a UWM councilman, discussing how to deal with the worker rebellion on Hephaestus. Known assets include massive industrial capability and advanced defense systems, notably including laser batteries which will shoot down most incoming projectiles. They may also have seized some dangerous weapons from an HMRC craft which was scheduled to dock there around the time of the rebellion, but this theory is unsubstantiated. They have a year to prepare, as well, and they will likely use this time to make weapons, more defenses, and war machines.

What weapons and such would you advise bringing to quell this rebellion, with minimal loss of life or property?

Bioweapons, chemical weapons, EMP weapons.

If it was me leading the UWM Invasion forces though, I'd be feeling pretty bad to be a rebel. There's not going to be much left after I would hypothetically sort that situation out. Due to the massive production capability of the world, I'd start laying waste to every vital factory on it, starting with shipyards for starships and then hitting the facilities for stuff like armour, robotic units and the like. The only time there's be boots on the ground would be in the aftermath just to tally up deaths, and not likely then due to the use of drones and such.

[Xantalos]

A good way to answer that question is to switch sides for a sec...


You are a UWM councilman, discussing how to deal with the worker rebellion on Hephaestus. Known assets include massive industrial capability and advanced defense systems, notably including laser batteries which will shoot down most incoming projectiles. They may also have seized some dangerous weapons from an HMRC craft which was scheduled to dock there around the time of the rebellion, but this theory is unsubstantiated. They have a year to prepare, as well, and they will likely use this time to make weapons, more defenses, and war machines.

What weapons and such would you advise bringing to quell this rebellion, with minimal loss of life or property?

A shit ton of competent amp users backed up by sods, etc, have a few snipers with LESHO rifles in the back, and 2 or 3 fission instigators should things go to shit.

[smurfingtonthethird]

Chemical weapons. SO MANY.
Poison gases, diseases, take your pick. Kill off the little rebels with no casualties.

[Caellath]

MkI suits can barely protect their owners from slingshot-propelled pebbles but they surely can keep you safe from most contaminants. Remember the sharkmist disease was transmitted through the air?

Also, those are the world's regular defenders. Their forces are most likely geared towards tried-and-proven traditional warfare.