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Author Topic: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments  (Read 4251 times)

WhitiusOpus

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Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« on: January 28, 2014, 05:14:28 pm »

So, as requested (and to filter out OOC in-thread chatter), here's the Religious Conversation Thread that comes along with creating a new religion for a upcoming tribe. Yay!

Along with whoever wants to argue philosophy/theology, please bring your issues here instead of other threads!

That being said, let me start us off by proclaiming *partly* my stance on Islam vs Christianity:

    Sure, there were holy crusades in the name of the Christian God, but those weren't called for in the Bible itself, just misconstrued by priests and/or clergymen who wanted to advance Christianity upon the rest of the world. But, this was a flaw of man, not the teachings of Christ.

    However, Muhammad's teachings in the Quran (Although I haven't read it in it's entirety, since I don't have the time nor reading stamina) proclaims numerous times that the only way to treat 'nonbelievers' ie, Infidels, is to wage a Holy War upon them. Furthermore, Muhammad himself was a Warlord, had seven wives, one of which was only 13, and showed little to no mercy in battle.

So which religion produces more violence, do you think?

Let the discussion begin!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 05:31:59 pm by WhitiusOpus »
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Max White

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out dah arguemehnts
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 05:20:27 pm »

    Sure, there were holy crusades in the name of the Christian God, but those weren't called for in the Bible itself, just misconstrued by priests and/or clergymen who wanted to advance Christianity upon the rest of the world. But, this was a flaw of man, not the teachings of Christ.
You just made a very common mistake; that is assuming people actually care about their holy text. Nobody actually reads the bible, I mean really, does anybody even know leviticus 20:27, let alone go along with it? I don't think so... The point is that the actual texts of any holy scripture are unimportant, what matters is what the clergy of that faith decide (See: The Crusades). Islam doesn't have a problem with its texts, it has a problem with extremist leaders, and that can be changed...

Heck Buddhist texts tend to promote peace for the most part, and look at their history.

WhitiusOpus

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out dah arguemehnts
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 05:37:52 pm »

I thought that religious discussions were banned due to how flame-y they got?

Also, IIRC, the Bible has some stuff about killing non-believers.

Well, maybe, but it keeps popping up in IC threads for things, so I decided that making a thread for everyone to vent/post their stance for whatever reason they needed to was a good idea.

    Sure, there were holy crusades in the name of the Christian God, but those weren't called for in the Bible itself, just misconstrued by priests and/or clergymen who wanted to advance Christianity upon the rest of the world. But, this was a flaw of man, not the teachings of Christ.
You just made a very common mistake; that is assuming people actually care about their holy text. Nobody actually reads the bible, I mean really, does anybody even know leviticus 20:27, let alone go along with it? I don't think so... The point is that the actual texts of any holy scripture are unimportant, what matters is what the clergy of that faith decide (See: The Crusades). Islam doesn't have a problem with its texts, it has a problem with extremist leaders, and that can be changed...

Heck Buddhist texts tend to promote peace for the most part, and look at their history.

Sure, you could blame the clergy, but the clergy are the ones who interpret the text itself. They have to know the text itself to be considered clergy of it, and yes, people do know leviticus 20:27. And you made another common mistake; assumption. You assumed I was pulling the facts about Islam and Muhammad out of my arse, when they are just that, facts. Sure, it always depends upon how the text is translated or fed to the masses by the clergy, but if a text proclaims violence, then is it not going to have a more violence ridden base of believers?
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Max White

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out dah arguemehnts
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 05:41:54 pm »

Sure, you could blame the clergy, but the clergy are the ones who interpret the text itself. They have to know the text itself to be considered clergy of it, and yes, people do know leviticus 20:27. And you made another common mistake; assumption. You assumed I was pulling the facts about Islam and Muhammad out of my arse, when they are just that, facts. Sure, it always depends upon how the text is translated or fed to the masses by the clergy, but if a text proclaims violence, then is it not going to have a more violence ridden base of believers?
Nope. You just need a few people who decide to ignore the violent parts and try to frame stuff in a better light, just like every other faith ever.

Criptfeind

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 06:10:13 pm »

So which religion produces more violence, do you think?

Since this isn't "Which is more inherently violent" or "Which justifies violent in it's texts more" but which actually creates more violence I would think that this question has a actual factual answer that a historian could tell you.

Of course, I'm not a historian. But I will go ahead and guess Christianity because as I American I know pretty much nothing about the history of the regions that Islam held sway over except for there interaction with areas that Christianity controlled. Which probably isn't that good a reason to guess, but it's the best I have.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 07:08:09 pm »

    Sure, there were holy crusades in the name of the Christian God, but those weren't called for in the Bible itself, just misconstrued by priests and/or clergymen who wanted to advance Christianity upon the rest of the world. But, this was a flaw of man, not the teachings of Christ.

Though I don't doubt that Christianity was abused by people to pursue/project their own goals, its important to remember that the Bible was written, compiled, and tranlated by "people" too and not by Jesus, and is just as vulnerable to the flaws of man. So how accurate the Bible represents Jesus's teachings is something that is in question.
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Remuthra

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 07:39:10 pm »



Worship your lord, savior, and furniture! Praise His sacred panels!

And He did sayeth: All kitchen sets doth drop by half in price, though for but a week! Payeth a tithe of five hundreds minus one to your local vendor, that you may find His presence upon your stead! Fine oak kitchens in the Manchester area doth wait upon your purchasing whim, at the cheapest of prices! Praise His glory, for He bringeth appliances down from His sacred home of Aye-Keah, where He doth sit on a throne of purest tile! Ye unbelievers, accept His grace, lest your cabinets rot and your refrigerator short out!

BFEL

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 09:59:48 pm »

LOLKITCHENS

Now if the spam people used this tactic (humor) I might actually be inclined to pay attention to them and not just report them immediately :P
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Remuthra

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 10:11:57 pm »

LOLKITCHENS

Now if the spam people used this tactic (humor) I might actually be inclined to pay attention to them and not just report them immediately :P
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Leafsnail

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out dah arguemehnts
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 10:41:03 pm »

"Here are a bunch of unsupported assertions about why violence was committed in the name of Christianity, here are a bunch of unsourced 'facts' that I believe suggest Islam is inherently violent."

I thought that religious discussions were banned due to how flame-y they got?
Nah the OP usually just eventually gives up and locks the thread.
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misko27

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out dah arguemehnts
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 11:09:23 pm »

    Sure, there were holy crusades in the name of the Christian God, but those weren't called for in the Bible itself, just misconstrued by priests and/or clergymen who wanted to advance Christianity upon the rest of the world. But, this was a flaw of man, not the teachings of Christ.
You just made a very common mistake; that is assuming people actually care about their holy text. Nobody actually reads the bible, I mean really, does anybody even know leviticus 20:27, let alone go along with it? I don't think so... The point is that the actual texts of any holy scripture are unimportant, what matters is what the clergy of that faith decide (See: The Crusades). Islam doesn't have a problem with its texts, it has a problem with extremist leaders, and that can be changed...

Heck Buddhist texts tend to promote peace for the most part, and look at their history.
There have been entire movements of Christianity where the primary focus is reading the Bible and interpreting it for yourself, so clearly some people read it.
*looks up Leviticus 20:27*
Hmm. I can see the Harry-Potter-as-Satanism thing now.

Also, different versions of the bible have the words as "hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard", "is a medium or spiritist", and "is a medium or a necromancer"; all of which have multiple different interpretations. Is only black magic and divination off-limits? Spiritist is defined as "The belief that the dead communicate with the living", so should I stone believers in ghosts? Or a more general "Psychics"? Would people with spirit animals violate it? So many questions.

So not only your priests but your translators interpretation matter. Only solution seems to be to learn Hebrew and Aramaic; and translate it yourself.
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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 11:14:57 pm »

So which religion produces more violence, do you think?
I just want to poke my head in and say that Pastafarianism is the least violent religion in existence; no deaths or holy wars have been attributed to us, ever. In fact, we are forbidden from waging holy wars and are told to
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Elfeater

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 11:24:06 pm »

Hey, God did extend the length of a day for his chosen people to slaughter more of their enemies.
I don't know the exact book and verse, but it is in the Old Testament.
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Remuthra

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out in-game arguments
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 11:28:59 pm »

Hey, God did extend the length of a day for his chosen people to slaughter more of their enemies.
I don't know the exact book and verse, but it is in the Old Testament.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Religious OOC thread to filter out dah arguemehnts
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 11:33:16 pm »

Sure, you could blame the clergy, but the clergy are the ones who interpret the text itself. They have to know the text itself to be considered clergy of it, and yes, people do know leviticus 20:27. And you made another common mistake; assumption. You assumed I was pulling the facts about Islam and Muhammad out of my arse, when they are just that, facts. Sure, it always depends upon how the text is translated or fed to the masses by the clergy, but if a text proclaims violence, then is it not going to have a more violence ridden base of believers?
Nope. You just need a few people who decide to ignore the violent parts and try to frame stuff in a better light, just like every other faith ever.
Actually, that works with every part of a faith the right people want to not follow enough.

*looks up Leviticus 20:27*
Hmm. I can see the Harry-Potter-as-Satanism thing now.
*also looks it up*
Yup.
But "Stone them with stones"? Was it ever common practice to stone people with pillows or gumdrops or manure or something?


Anyways...hard to say. These days, Islam is causing more violence, both because it has more sway in nations it is the dominant religion in and because it is dominant in more unstable (read, "potential violence") nations. I don't know enough about Islam to say how much of a difference the actual holy texts make; does anyone have access to a nice, convenient guide to Islam I could look for?
Overall, though? Sheer numbers combined with the expansionist/imperialistic Christian nations (lead by missionaries) mean that Christianity might well have won out.

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