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[miljan]

http://rt.com/news/muzychko-avakov-revenge-ukraine-109/

And the revolution consumes itself, as always.

Ukraine has no future with leaders like that.

I actually see this as a positive thing. It shows that the ukraine leaders are at least trying to arrest some of the criminals. Will it blow up, maybe, but I dont think it will.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

http://rt.com/news/muzychko-avakov-revenge-ukraine-109/

And the revolution consumes itself, as always.

Ukraine has no future with leaders like that.

Revolution is not quite over to start consuming itself. Problem in Ukraine - the guys who are ruling right now haven't participated in revolution. In fact that acted against it by making deals with Yanukovich and calming down radical groups.

Yes,  Turchinov, Yatsenyuk and others they were allowed to rule till elections to have legitimate transition of power...

But now we see that they do nothing to counter Putin's actions (If you don't count " international community, please, help us" screams. If I was that international community I'd say - "hey, maybe you'll start to do something yourself before calling for help?")
The fail to arrest police officers and titushkas responsible for violence on Maydan
They fail to arrest open Russian collaborators
But hey, they managed to kill a nationalist who Russia dislikes a lot.  At least they could blame it on FSB, but no...

If Turchinov (read Tymoshenko) hopes that threat of a war with Russia will keep the people silent... They are wrong

PS. Muzichko is very compicated issue. While he is a hero of the first Chechen war his biography isn't clean. But I don't believe in that "killed while resisted arrest" nonsene. It is a murder without trial. Exactly what Maydan was against
PPS. How Russian TV channel brigade arrived that fast?

[gogis]

http://rt.com/news/muzychko-avakov-revenge-ukraine-109/

And the revolution consumes itself, as always.

Ukraine has no future with leaders like that.

Revolution is not quite over to start consuming itself. Problem in Ukraine - the guys who are ruling right now haven't participated in revolution. In fact that acted against it by making deals with Yanukovich and calming down radical groups.

Yes,  Turchinov, Yatsenyuk and others they were allowed to rule till elections to have legitimate transition of power...

But now we see that they do nothing to counter Putin's actions (If you don't count " international community, please, help us" screams. If I was that international community I'd say - "hey, maybe you'll start to do something yourself before calling for help?")
The fail to arrest police officers and titushkas responsible for violence on Maydan
They fail to arrest open Russian collaborators
But hey, they managed to kill a nationalist who Russia dislikes a lot.  At least they could blame it on FSB, but no...

If Turchinov (read Tymoshenko) hopes that threat of a war with Russia will keep the people silent... They are wrong

PS. Muzichko is very compicated issue. While he is a hero of the first Chechen war his biography isn't clean. But I don't believe in that "killed while resisted arrest" nonsene. It is a murder without trial. Exactly what Maydan was against
PPS. How Russian TV channel brigade arrived that fast?

After reading your posts for awhile, I have some questions
- I can't believe you so proponent towards bloodshed. Either indirectly or directly it's just sick even to read. Not like russians performed any atrocities justifiyng that position. Blood leads to more blood, what good about that?
- You completely ignore the offchance that crimean majority actually genuinely wanted to join Russia. Fuck all this legitimacy sake, you really feel it's was all staged? I mean you set in stone that majority of Crimea is against separation?
- Why you insist that what happened in Ukraine is not a coup, but democratic revolution? I am thorn on that subject. We can't really talk into something meaningful here if one side is thinking it's genuine revolution and wish of the masses and another party thinks it's a bloody coup orchestrated by western influence. It's not going to work. It does not compute.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

- I can't believe you so proponent towards bloodshed. Either indirectly or directly it's just sick even to read. Not like russians performed any atrocities justifiyng that position. Blood leads to more blood, what good about that?

I believe that bloodshed is unavoidable whatever Ukrainians will do. Not resisting the evil will lead to more blood but later. I never wanted blood in January when I started the thread, but I knew that it is unavoidable

- You completely ignore the offchance that crimean majority actually genuinely wanted to join Russia. Fuck all this legitimacy sake, you really feel it's was all staged? I mean you set in stone that majority of Crimea is against separation?

1) I don't give a fuck even if majority does wants to join Russia. They can do it in another way, immigrate to their beloved country. The only people who have a moral right to be separatists are Crimean Tatars, exactly because they have no own country to move into
2) I am not a liberal-democrat, sorry. I don't believe that desires of 70-year old brainless Soviet army-retire who does (and never did) nothing good for a country and desires  of a young specialist should have an equal weight in determining the fate of a country or any territory.
3) Any referendum without normal campaign were both sides have a chance to talk and a status quo option is not a referendum at all.

- Why you insist that what happened in Ukraine is not a coup, but democratic revolution?

I don't understand the question. Democratic revolution? WTF? Revolutions happen when democratic methods don't work.  What happened in Ukraine is overthrowing a tyrant. That resulted in a political crisis that had chances to resolve itself with elections but the country got invaded by "friendly neighbor"

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I like calling UR a conflict 'proponent' when Russia is the one invading his country. Double talk is a national past time, I bet.

[Sean Mirrsen]

UR seems to be content to have Ukraine "go out in a blaze of glory" rather than attempt to survive in any meaningful shape. >_>

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I'm sure noone in Russia would hold the same sentiment had they been invaded and occupied by a hostile foreign government which looks down upon their ethnicity in general


Edit: It's funny because this mindset is actually common even when they're the aggressor

[gogis]

- I can't believe you so proponent towards bloodshed. Either indirectly or directly it's just sick even to read. Not like russians performed any atrocities justifiyng that position. Blood leads to more blood, what good about that?

I believe that bloodshed is unavoidable whatever Ukrainians will do. Not resisting the evil will lead to more blood but later. I never wanted blood in January when I started the thread, but I knew that it is unavoidable

- You completely ignore the offchance that crimean majority actually genuinely wanted to join Russia. Fuck all this legitimacy sake, you really feel it's was all staged? I mean you set in stone that majority of Crimea is against separation?

1) I don't give a fuck even if majority does wants to join Russia. They can do it in another way, immigrate to their beloved country. The only people who have a moral right to be separatists are Crimean Tatars, exactly because they have no own country to move into
2) I am not a liberal-democrat, sorry. I don't believe that desires of 70-year old brainless Soviet army-retire who does (and never did) nothing good for a country and desires  of a young specialist should have an equal weight in determining the fate of a country or any territory.
3) Any referendum without normal campaign were both sides have a chance to talk and a status quo option is not a referendum at all.

- Why you insist that what happened in Ukraine is not a coup, but democratic revolution?

I don't understand the question. Democratic revolution? WTF? Revolutions happen when democratic methods don't work.  What happened in Ukraine is overthrowing a tyrant. That resulted in a political crisis that had chances to resolve itself with elections but the country got invaded by "friendly neighbor"

You are to keen on this have something to do with Soviets. I was risen on books about Russo-Turkish war, whatever biased it was. It's was obviously biased actually, probably. It has pictures!!! j/k. Like any media, right now. You need to dig deeper to understand. Crimea and Soviets is nothing, like a bump on a road. It's a lot more ancient story.

And a tyrant? Seriously? All your presidents and anybody in power was opportunists. Same corruption, same level. Same shit, even.
Cmon, again. We simply see everything from different angles. It's not going to work, ever.

[gogis]

I'm sure noone in Russia would hold the same sentiment had they been invaded and occupied by a hostile foreign government which looks down upon their ethnicity in general


Edit: It's funny because this mindset is actually common even when they're the aggressor

Man, you already proved that you have no idea how russians thinks and act. Just a test.
Tell me, what is going to happen when airbus full of your people happen to land?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: Russia is not Putin (click to show/hide)

That's fans of FC Zenit Saint Petersburg with a banner that has first words of Ukrainian national anthem on it

I really hope to see Maydan the Russian edition. Else, IMO, everything will end very badly not only for Ukraine but for the whole planet

UR seems to be content to have Ukraine "go out in a blaze of glory" rather than attempt to survive in any meaningful shape. >_>

You know... I would happily give Russia away Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk if we would be able to evacuate loyal citizens and be sure that Russia will stop there and we'll have no war. But I don't believe that appeasing aggressor works.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

- I can't believe you so proponent towards bloodshed. Either indirectly or directly it's just sick even to read. Not like russians performed any atrocities justifiyng that position. Blood leads to more blood, what good about that?

I believe that bloodshed is unavoidable whatever Ukrainians will do. Not resisting the evil will lead to more blood but later. I never wanted blood in January when I started the thread, but I knew that it is unavoidable

- You completely ignore the offchance that crimean majority actually genuinely wanted to join Russia. Fuck all this legitimacy sake, you really feel it's was all staged? I mean you set in stone that majority of Crimea is against separation?

1) I don't give a fuck even if majority does wants to join Russia. They can do it in another way, immigrate to their beloved country. The only people who have a moral right to be separatists are Crimean Tatars, exactly because they have no own country to move into
2) I am not a liberal-democrat, sorry. I don't believe that desires of 70-year old brainless Soviet army-retire who does (and never did) nothing good for a country and desires  of a young specialist should have an equal weight in determining the fate of a country or any territory.
3) Any referendum without normal campaign were both sides have a chance to talk and a status quo option is not a referendum at all.

- Why you insist that what happened in Ukraine is not a coup, but democratic revolution?

I don't understand the question. Democratic revolution? WTF? Revolutions happen when democratic methods don't work.  What happened in Ukraine is overthrowing a tyrant. That resulted in a political crisis that had chances to resolve itself with elections but the country got invaded by "friendly neighbor"

You are to keen on this have something to do with Soviets. I was risen on books about Russo-Turkish war, whatever biased it was. It's was obviously biased actually, probably. It has pictures!!! j/k. Like any media, right now. You need to dig deeper to understand. Crimea and Soviets is nothing, like a bump on a road. It's a lot more ancient story.

And a tyrant? Seriously? All your presidents and anybody in power was opportunists. Same corruption, same level. Same shit, even.
Cmon, again. We simply see everything from different angles. It's not going to work, ever.

First of all, don't trivialize shit bro. A large section of a country just got annexed by what is essentially Third Reich 2.0 minus the blatant killing. Soviets? Ya, Putin is basically a leftover over from the KGB glory days, he's not afraid to be brazen, he'll risk a lot to increase Russian power. "Crimea and Soviets is nothing" That's literally what this is all about!

As far as Poor Presidents, I must agree they have a bad track record in the Ukraine, but the uprising was a very clear signal that Ukrainians had had enough in my eyes. New elections will be brought forward, I highly doubt they will be totally legitimate, but at least they're trying.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Man, you already proved that you have no idea how russians thinks and act. Just a test.
Tell me, what is going to happen when airbus full of your people happen to land?

lol, okay 'expert'

Hint: I take your posts as comedy

[gogis]

Spoiler: Russia is not Putin (click to show/hide)

That's fans of FC Zenit Saint Petersburg with a banner that has first words of Ukrainian national anthem on it

I really hope to see Maydan the Russian edition. Else, IMO, everything will end very badly not only for Ukraine but for the whole planet

UR seems to be content to have Ukraine "go out in a blaze of glory" rather than attempt to survive in any meaningful shape. >_>

You know... I would happily give Russia away Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk if we would be able to evacuate loyal citizens and be sure that Russia will stop there and we'll have no war. But I don't believe that appeasing aggressor works.

You just dissaproving your words about rampant propaganda here.

Here is example of propaganda
http://vk.com/photo-67972801_324175755
http://vk.com/photo-67972801_324175756

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Really tripping over yourself to prove whatever you want to believe, again

[gogis]

First of all, don't trivialize shit bro. A large section of a country ...

Stopped reading right there. Keep your numbers straight. Numbers dont lie.