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[Guardian G.I.]

To put this thread back on track, I'll throw in some good old false Russian propaganda for you to collectively denounce as fake.
Another interesting phone call was posted on YouTube, this time (reportedly) starring former deputy chairman of National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine Nestor Shufrych and former Ukrainian Prime Minister and presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko. RT's translation can be found here.
Someone who sounded like Yulia Tymoshenko stated that Russians living in Ukraine must be "shot with nuclear weapons", Russia should be turned into a scorched field and that she's ready to pick up a gun and go shooting Russians along with their leader.
Yulia Tymoshenko confirmed the authenticity of the phone call on Twitter. However, she denied saying anything about shooting Russians with nuclear weapons.

[burningpet]

So she maintains that the phone call existed but was edited?

[misko27]

But with whose nuclear weapons? Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons; she knows that. Is she speaking for the West now?

If Ukraine did have nuclear weapons, this confrontation would be a whole new thing. For one, I'd be too busy stocking up on radiation medication to post.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Well, I heard rumors that we have Russian ICBMs that are undergoing service in Dnipropetrovsk. Doubt that it is true and even if it  is true, they should be without warheads

[MarcAFK]

I wouldn't want to shoot Russians with nuclear weapons if they were living in my own country though, that's just silly.

[Guardian G.I.]

But with whose nuclear weapons? Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons; she knows that. Is she speaking for the West now?

If Ukraine did have nuclear weapons, this confrontation would be a whole new thing. For one, I'd be too busy stocking up on radiation medication to post.

Obviously she didn't actually meant that nuclear weapons should be used against Russian people in South East Ukraine. She meant that all Russians should be expelled from South East Ukraine, provided that she wasn't overreacting and the phone call is legit.
Still, if it's true, it shows the mood of some members of Ukrainian political elite.

[Owlbread]

I think if you asked most nationally conscious Ukrainians in private what they think should be done with the Russo-Ukrainians that are agitating, you would get a similar answer.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I think if you asked most nationally conscious Ukrainians in private what they think should be done with the Russo-Ukrainians that are agktating, you would get a similar answer.

I'm honestly under the impression that if you took the most nationally conscious citizens of any country and asked them about any other culturally distinct population on the country's territory, the answers would not be a whole lot softer. Of course, there's also the matter of how decent the person him/herself is, so that "national consciousness" is far from being the only variable.

In other news, apparently there's no longer a G8. As far as I can tell, our response is a thunderous, resounding 'meh'.

[Chaoswizkid]

In other news, apparently there's no longer a G8. As far as I can tell, our response is a thunderous, resounding 'meh'.

I was under the impression that we're just sending Putin to the corner in time-out? We go a couple rounds of G7 before we ask him if he knows what he did and why it's wrong before we invite him back to our reindeer games?

[Sheb]

Isn't all the action in the G20 now?

[Guardian G.I.]

I think if you asked most nationally conscious Ukrainians in private what they think should be done with the Russo-Ukrainians that are agktating, you would get a similar answer.

I'm honestly under the impression that if you took the most nationally conscious citizens of any country and asked them about any other culturally distinct population on the country's territory, the answers would not be a whole lot softer. Of course, there's also the matter of how decent the person him/herself is, so that "national consciousness" is far from being the only variable.

The "most nationally conscious" people are also known as radical nationalists in some circles.

[Sheb]

I must say, the FSB or whoever is doing those tap is good. They've leaked a few already, so you'd expect everyone to be cautious and still they tap.

[Guardian G.I.]

It's a very late reply, but anyway:

It depends on how the people see these troops. If they see them like oppressors, they will be oppressors. In Crimea, different thing happened. They just didn't see them in that way. I think.

That is not the point. Even if we assume that a) Crimea wants to join Russia and b) Crimea wants Russian soldiers as protection, that doesn't mean the Russian intervention was right. Putin could have used diplomatic pressure to achieve these things. He could have trippled the gas prices. He could have let elections happen in Ukraine and support a constitutional change that allows for Crimean independence. He could have involved international organisations. There were a lot of options and he chose the one that he knows everyone will understand as a massive disruption of international stability.

The reason why the Russian leadership decided to use force is probably based on past experience of trying to defend its interests from Western actions by diplomatic means. For example, Russia and China were against NATO's "humanitarian bombings" of Serbia in 1999. NATO simply started bombing Serbia without the UN's consent, and Russian resolution condemning it didn't do anything because America and its allies voted against it. Russia's current Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov used to be the Russian ambassador to the UN back then, so he certainly saw it first-hand.

As a result, people in charge of Russia, looking back at all that, probably think that diligently following 'international law' while Russian opponents constantly violate it under various noble pretexts is incredibly foolish and harmful to Russia. They assume that it would be naive to expect the West to follow international law if the West has no qualms about violating it. Thus, the only way to defend Russia from Western actions violating international law is committing actions violating international law.

[Max White]

NATO simply started bombing Serbia without the UN's consent, and Russian resolution condemning it didn't do anything because America and its allies voted against it.

A permanent member of the UN security counsel using its powers to frustrate defensive measures? Never...

[Guardian G.I.]

NATO simply started bombing Serbia without the UN's consent, and Russian resolution condemning it didn't do anything because America and its allies voted against it.

A permanent member of the UN security counsel using its powers to frustrate defensive measures? Never...

Did anyone even suggest booting the United States from G8, for Serbia, or Iraq or anything? Did anyone put forward a plan of economic sanctions against the United States? Did anyone suggest isolating the United States? Were American politicians banned from entering the EU? Did the EU freeze their assets? Did they cut off any political, economic or military cooperation?