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[10ebbor10]

An interesting article about US shale gas.

Well, I'm not going to complain if I get both subsidized American natural gas and subsidized Russian natural gas.

[Sheb]

Also, while there is little that can be done by Obama to speed things up, Europe is already moving away from Russian gas. In 1990, 75% of our gas import came from Russia. Since then, it has fallen steadily, to 40% now.

[Sergarr]

An interesting article about US shale gas.

Well, I'm not going to complain if I get both subsidized American natural gas and subsidized Russian natural gas.

I'd get the American magic gas transporters.

[Sheb]

Well, the LPG terminals are being built. If we adapt the pipelines, we should be able to get rid of Russian gas in 3-5 years, although at a cost.

[Sergarr]

You don't have 3-5 years.

[Sheb]

Why? You think Russia is going to invade the EU next year?

[Sergarr]

The referendum is tomorrow. The sanctions (probably embargo) are expected to arrive in about a week after that. The gas then will be cut in several months.

The other variant is that Europe doesn't enact any real sanctions. But then it will send a message that Europe is weak.

There's probably the third variant. But I can't see it at the moment.

[Sheb]

Russia won't cut the gas, it need the cash too much.

[10ebbor10]

Besides, most of the gas contracts last to 2025-2030 or further, should Russia cut of gas supplies, they're not going to get the contract back, which would probably rather problematic for their economy.

[Sergarr]

Again, it really depends on what happens tomorrow at the referendum. There are 2 ways it could go: the somewhat reasonable way, and the batshit insane way. I would prefer the first, to be honest.

[scriver]

So I'm gearing stuff about big protests against Putin's behaviour in Moscow today.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: Anti-war protest, Moscow, today (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Putin supporters, Moscow, today (click to show/hide)

I wonder why they stole red-black colors of Ukrainian nationalists?

That and:
Time Person of the year - check
Hosts Olympic Games - check
Stupid marches - check
Invade neighboring country- check

[XXSockXX]

Wow, up to 50 000 people. Last time anti-war protesters got arrested, but they weren't as many as that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Again, it really depends on what happens tomorrow at the referendum. There are 2 ways it could go: the somewhat reasonable way, and the batshit insane way. I would prefer the first, to be honest.

Actually that depends mostly on Russia, if there is an invasion in Eastern Ukraine, it will get pretty bad. Otherwise, with only the referendum, the EU will just issue the next level of sanctions (visa and acccount stuff affecting 30 high-ranking people). Economic sanctions might follow after that, but negotiations will continue.

Spoiler: Continued tangent (click to show/hide)

Ha, it's crazy the degree of contrast being drawn there- displaying a flag at one's home is endearing, the pledge is viewed as harmless or unimportant at worst, and everyone knows how proud Americans are to be American!
We look like nationalist nutbags, talk about a mindscrew!

Anywho,
Probably the shortest way back from tangent to on-topic would be to talk about the unique situation that led to Germany's current status, (I'd wager the cold war among other things), but I've been procrastinating about that sleep thing for too long, forget about doing casual research.

Thanks for sharing Sock.

Spoiler: More tangent stuff (click to show/hide)

Well, it is a unique situation indeed, even in Austria which shared the same fate as Germany, it is not exactly like that.
Some important things that led to this situation: - A total, utter defeat. Almost every family lost someone or lost their home or at least had a member spending some years as a POW. Millions forcefully removed from their homes.
- a constitution (in both the West and East) drafted and approved under allied supervision, specifically designed to keep a democratic system in place.
- a concerted effort for de-nazification in the 50s, some parts of it having a lasting impact till today, in education and such. The population becomes aware of the Holocaust and warcrimes of an unprecedented level.
- a country divided into 2 enemy blocks, with war meaning fighting your own people.
- quick recovery of the economy, thanks to programs of the Allies, leading to lasting economic wealth (in the West), thus preventing strong reactionism.
- from the mid 60s on a generation that questions what their parents did and laid the groundwork for the current mentality.
That's very roughly the most important ones. You can see however how specific they are, which is why it remains a pretty unique situation.

[GlyphGryph]

Russia has moved troops out of Crimea into the Ukraine proper. there was a clash with Ukrainian border defenses, and the Russian's emerged victorious.


The official statement is that the troops were not invading, merely "responding to an imminent threat of terrorist attack" and it occurred by request of the de facto Crimean PM.

[burningpet]

People watch those events as if watching football matches and pick a side by the most superficial reasons (messi is cute, ronaldo is handsome).

watching the two opposing leaders:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No surprise some people choose to cheer for the stronger figure.

Well, despite my absolute contempt of how the recent Ukraine government was established, putin is really stepping out of line and needs to be stopped.