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[Ukrainian Ranger]

WTH? Ukrainian, Belarusian, Polish, Croatian and other Slavic cultures and languages all originate from the same branch, that diverged into diferent directions. No one here, in Russia, that thinks upon the question seriously, will think so. For me it's always been a lovely game to listen to diferent slavic languages and comprehend them, as it's wonderful to feel that my own Russian language is a part of a bigger three.

I haven't said all Russians. I said millions of Russians. Others, as you proved claim that Russian\Ukrainian\Belarusian form some kind of uniting "superlanguage" as if Ukrainian and Russian languages are more related than, for example, Ukrainian and Polish
Luckily many Russians are going away from that kind of imperial myths, unluckily they have little to no political power in modern Russia.

[gogis]

And then split happened. And now your country tried to abolish russian language. Seriously? So it's like "hey russians, pack your shit and GTFO?" They have homes, families there now.

Ukraine never tried to abolish the Russian language.

First your snarky coment on nulandgate, then this? Are you hunting my replies or just read every thread where I post?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ukraine+abolish+russian

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Or maybe this isn't about Russia.  Maybe those are independent nations and they'd rather be trading partners with the greedy, self serving west.  Look at Belarus, that's the example of what you get from being a Russian client state.  Is it any wonder that all your neighbors are deciding that they'd rather look to Europe?

This.


Iirc the russian language thing is being blown out of proportion. /and failed/

(On mobile device, can't do the googly-linky schtick)

[andrea]

Ukraine tried to abolish a law that made russian an official language in the whole Ukraine. A recent law in fact, and the proposal even failed.

Also, it seems that crimea's status as an autonomous province meant that it wouldn't have been affected by the change, as the double official language had deeper roots, independent of the law that the national parliament tried to abolish.

This is what I learned from your link, gogis. But google probably has regional preferences for what sites to show first.

edit: and abolishing russian as official language basically means that in most of ukraine ( crimea excluded) it couldn't be used in official documents.

[GlyphGryph]

First your snarky coment on nulandgate, then this? Are you hunting my replies or just read every thread where I post?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ukraine+abolish+russian

You should generally read the results before posting something like that, since every single item on the list that is returned says that I'm right here, and you're wrong?

Andrea accurately sums up what actually happened that you seem to have built your ludicrous claims on.

So, I expect you will immediately move the goal posts, rather than admitting that your statement was false, right? Or will you go with quietly dropping the issue?

And no, I'm not hunting your replies, but while I disagree with many other pro-Russia-action posters, you in particular have an astounding tendency to repost things that have been found to be false well after the conversation in question already happened - it makes you a rather easy target when you manage to not just be wrong, but be wrong after everyone else has already discussed to death how wrong what you are saying was.

[nenjin]

*snip*

As long as you guys keep blaming the West for how your own country deals with its neighbors, nothing is ever going to change. Other countries are afraid of what their lives would be like as a Russian client state, based on history and other past examples. Your government blames the West for how other countries view Russia; where is Russia's responsibility for how the rest of the world views it? Our politicians try to play up Russia as the lurking enemy of freedom, in order to do the same: distract the people from the decisions they make that have negative outcomes. Reasonable people know that's bullshit, that Russia and the West are somehow natural enemies like cats and dogs, and go looking for the actual people responsible for their plight.

I get it sucks to watch your quality of life continue to erode, to watch things gets worse. But are you really going to place blame for a decade's worth of decline on the West? What about your own leaders? Where is their responsibility? Where is your responsibility for electing them, or letting them stay in power?

And honestly, how can you say the West prompted Russia crossing into Ukraine? NATO, the EU, none of their boots were on the ground before Russia's. And yet you blame the West for the fear others feel when they see this happen? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how you can lay your government's choice to cross into Ukraine on the rest of the world's shoulders. No one forced Russia to do anything. That claim to their hand being "forced" is the only thing that's keeping them from being universally labeled as the hostile aggressor in this situation.

[10ebbor10]

This is what I learned from your link, gogis. But google probably has personal for what sites to show first.

FTFY. The Search bubble is a thing, you know. By analyzing your previous research result, google is capable of predicting what information you would like to receive.

[GlyphGryph]

And to be honest, the USA could probably blame Russia for it steadily turning into a freedom-hating piece of security and fear-based crap and make a decent argument.

But it would be stupid and unproductive to do so, even if the Cold War with the USSR was a huge part of the problem - if it weren't for them, I'm sure our Ogilarchs would have found another way to screw us over, though. It's a constant battle, an internal struggle, and blaming outside enemies only serves to provide opportunities for the internal enemies to seize control.

Also, my personalization is actively disabled (side effect of working at a web company) for search results.

That doesn't remove localization though.

[Darvi]

I think you mean personnel.

[andrea]

whatever the filter applied, the point stands that such a search is biased toward the observer. I'd like to see some sources speaking of the abolition of russian from gogis, so I can compare.

[gogis]

First your snarky coment on nulandgate, then this? Are you hunting my replies or just read every thread where I post?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ukraine+abolish+russian

You should generally read the results before posting something like that, since every single item on the list that is returned says that I'm right here, and you're wrong?

No, it's just proves that search engine have regional and user preferences ranking in output data which only proves the point that information is skewed for people in different regions.

I can bombard you with links written in bizzarelly looking language proving my points, but OMG, russian media is so rigged, right?
The biggest difference between you and me here is that you proving some facts to be false reading western media, while I have spoken with people who happen to be there RIGHT NOW. Alot of scary shit can be found in social networks aswell, but again, would you believe it? I am pretty sure not.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Sometimes it is bad to be good guys... Should we cut off electricity, freshwater, gas  and block all roads in Crimea for a week then......

[GlyphGryph]

Which sort of implies that you should either
a) Not use personalized search results, and check that what the other person is going to see actually proves your point before posting a condescending link that not only completely fails to prove your point but provides a wealth of evidence to the contrary, from your own national media.
Source: http://rt.com/news/minority-language-law-ukraine-035/
b) Provide actual links with actual evidence instead. Hell, even the RT article I found didn't go so far as to claim what you are claiming!

So I have reporting, quotes from those responsible, released from the actual government proposing the actual law, but you have... rumour and anecdote? You know, I've kind of got you beat on that front too, since we've got actual Ukranians in this thread agreeing with me.

Please stand by to answer a few questions, the results of which will determine whether I should bother to continue engaging with you in anything approaching a reasonable way.

On the topic of the Russian-language-law-proposal, can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?

Or, if you want to just do the whole process at once...

[Darvi]

Sometimes it is bad to be good guys... Should we cut off electricity, freshwater, gas  and block all roads in Crimea for a week then......

That would probably harm the populace the most. Not a good move.

[Descan]

A law change is not some nebulous thing, gogis. You can pretty easily point to a law, see what it does, and see what abolishing it would mean, including which areas would be affected.

And, again, it wasn't actually abolished.