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[Vector]

Fucking hell.  It must be terrifying.

Not to say that Ukrainians are cowards, just that an invasion...

[Mr. Strange]

Really, what in the actual fuck? Everyone would be burning themselves in the streets to proclaim the US's evilness had America been doing this. Is this bizarro world? Shit, may as well get used to the fact that noone -- not one -- government will stand up to this anymore. Atleast people faked outrage over Georgia.

Great, what an awesome precedent, guys. We're screwed if we just let this happen all the time.


Let's go uncontested arrival Canada, ey?

I wonder what Putin paid for Crimea... Snowden?

On a more serious note, I am seriously going to pray to God today so that nobody dies in Crimea.

If I were religious sort I would be praying (against my better knowledge) that majority of them would be Russian solders. I know that makes me probably seem like horrible person but I find that I don't actually care. I hope they get second Afganistan or Winter War.

[Sheb]

Nothing, Obama just doesn't like rash actions, and frankly I'd be more worried if he didn't think twice about possibly going to war against Russia.

But seriously, he should be in the crisis room, not circlejerking at the DNC. Fuck that guy.

[codyorr]

Unfortunately the smart POLITICAL thing to do is wait before fighting back. Just try not to get too fucked in the process. Damn this is shit.

[burningpet]

Mictlantecuhtli:

Whats so confusing?

My claims are simple and clear. a revolution to overthrow an elected government was done partially and greatly by the hands of neo-nazis and the west is cheering for it.

that channel 4 link was used solely for this part (although, its idiotic i had to even support this known fact):
"In December US senator John McCain travelled to Ukraine to offer his support to the opposition, appearing on stage with leaders of the three opposition parties leading the protests - including the far-right Svoboda party.

Svoboda is currently Ukraine's fourth biggest party and holds 36 seats in parliament. It is also part of the Alliance of European National Movements, along with the BNP and Hungary's Jobbik.

Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok is one of the faces of the protests, appearing regularly along with opposition leader and former boxer Vitali Klitschko (see picture right) voicing opposition to Putin's influence over the region."

Do you claim those facts are false? i guess you don't.

And please stop trying to belittle me, this is both insulting to me, to this board and to your intelligence.

sinistar - those yellow arm bands they are talking about are NOT related to the picture webber shown.

Jeb:
parties evolve is a very bad argument because as far as we know, that evolution is merely an outward evolution. paint a donkey with stripes and he will still remain a doneky, not a zebra. this is PR at its finest. the key figures remained the same. do you actually believe that an openly admitted neo-nazi (anyone who is a memeber of a neo-nazi party is neo-nazi and openly admit it, agreed?) suddenly turns out just nationalist? that he saw the light? i find it hard to believe. the more likely scenario is that svoboda knew they had to moderate their IMAGE if they wanted to survive politically.

[Knit tie]

On a more serious note, I am seriously going to pray to God today so that nobody dies in Crimea.

If I were religious sort I would be praying (against my better knowledge) that majority of them would be Russian solders. I know that makes me probably seem like horrible person but I find that I don't actually care. I hope they get second Afganistan or Winter War.

Please, have mercy on our troops. Most of them were drafted and do not give a flying fuck about Putin's ambitions. Every war we had recently was pretty much Vietnam for us - our sons go and die meaningless deaths in a country they honestly have nothing against for a cause everybody knows is bullshit.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Do you claim those facts are false? i guess you don't.

Naw, just completely irrelevant.

[Knit tie]

Do you claim those facts are false? i guess you don't.

Naw, just completely irrelevant.

Yes, Buningpet, random infodumps do not tend to support people's political claims.

[GlyphGryph]

burningpet:
You aren't actually saying anything remotely useful. No one cares. You are literally not bothering to make any points to any noticeable end, and so are serving as nothing more than an annoyance. You missed your opportunity by refusing to actually make a clear position or an effective argument, the consensus has been to move on to new incidents that are actually happening now. So unless you have something of actual interest to add to the conversation, something that hasn't already been discussed to death, please... just stop bothering.

Alternatively, try to keep up with the current topic of conversation. In case you didn't notice, Russia is invading. Unless you have some comment to make about that, it's not really worth saying the same pointless stuff over and over again. We finished the conversation you're happening before you even arrived - you can reread the thread if you really want to retread old ground.

[Owlbread]

It's happening

[Mr. Strange]

Unfortunately the smart POLITICAL thing to do is wait before fighting back. Just try not to get too fucked in the process. Damn this is shit.

Now that you mention it, that's very true. If Ukraine were to attack Russians now it would be over in a month. Whole country would be annexed or new goverment placed. The smart thing to do is to wait till they are identified as Russian and international outrage damages Russias chances to annex Crimea and negotiations between Ukraine and Russia start over position of Crimea and Russians in rest of Ukraine. While Russian solders hold Crimea hostage...

Please, have mercy on our troops. Most of them were drafted and do not give a flying fuck about Putin's ambitions. Every war we had recently was pretty much Vietnam for us - our sons go and die meaningless death in a country they honestly have nothing against for a cause everybody knows is bullshit.

True enough. My sniper skills will wait for another day...
Actually, some Russians cross the border over here to get away from Russian army if they have Finnish citizenship. Then they find out we make them serve in the army too. Much butthurt, very drama.

Edit: Stupid picture and stupid computer...

[Owlbread]

This is going to probably be the point in the century where the USA is shown to be the impotent floppy blancmange that it is and that Putin can do whatever he likes while they just sit and bluster. Putin can invade and annex other countries, overthrow governments, turn the tides in civil wars in his favour and there's nothing the USA can do about it.

Syria was the first nail, this is the final nail in the coffin. I'd be talking about the EU too but they proved their floppiness in the last few years.

[burningpet]

Do you claim those facts are false? i guess you don't.

Naw, just completely irrelevant.

An openly admitted neo-nazi is a leading public figure for a revolution and was been accepted as such by an american government official. whats irrelevant about that? this is as relevant to my claim as the word relevance can be.

GlyphGryph - there was never a serious discussion. there were just deflections, like there are now. no one cares that neo-nazis played and still play a major role in Ukraine politics? well, thats THE problem.

[Mephansteras]

Unfortunately the smart POLITICAL thing to do is wait before fighting back. Just try not to get too fucked in the process. Damn this is shit.

Especially since Russia does have a military base in the Crimea. This gives them a reason to have troops there to "protect their interests". Given how many US military bases are scattered around the world, I imagine the US government is leery of seeming too hostile on this point. They'll wait until Russia does something obviously bad before doing more, I'm sure.

This is going to probably be the point in the century where the USA is shown to be the impotent floppy blancmange that it is and that Putin can do whatever he likes while they just sit and bluster. Putin can invade and annex other countries, overthrow governments, turn the tides in civil wars in his favour and there's nothing the USA can do about it.

Maybe. Depends on how much Obama wants to get into things, or at least appear to be willing to get into things. The US didn't get involved in Georgia because all of its troops were tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is no longer the case, but the US public is also rather weary of sending troops off to go fight in other countries.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US mostly went for political or economic sanctions until things went so far that other major NATO allies wanted to get actively involved.

[Sheb]

Except Ukraine is much closer, we have NATO trops on their borders.

Also, funnily enough, Georgia also had his troops tied in Iraq in 2008. A third of their army or something.