Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ukrainian Ranger]

There are some small hope for peaceful solution. More and more sources claim that many deputes from the ruling party don't want to share the responsibility and they, together with opposition, plan to gather in parliament or other place and vote to take all power from Yanukovitch. It's impossible to do it in a clean, legitimate way but such voting is a step in the right direction...  I think even the guys who stole millions from the nation don't want their hands in blood of thousands, if not millions. That or they are scared of responsibility.

PS. webber, thank you for showing the face of the other side. Please, Write more. Continue your mission of bringing the truth to Europeans.

[Sinistar]

I have no problem with listening to people that oppose EuroMaidan protests. No, I wold gladly listen to what they have to say for in any conflict, it is good one gathers information from all sides involved to pass a valid judgement.

However, it is good you pass this information in a credible manner, webber.
First video you posted - yes, the situation is anything else than a calm protest. But why did the protesters capture this man? What did he do? Is he connected to the hated government, has he done things to rile people up? Or was he an innocent casualty, being on the wrong place at the wrong time?
Mob lynching like that is not pleasant to see, but we need more information.

Second video shows a man, wounded, possibly dead. Another man stands beside him, with a red cross on his chest. Is this man a paramedic? How do we know this paramedic DIDN'T try to help that man? How do we know no additional paramedics were called? Video looks like it's shot in the interior of some sort of shelter, tent maybe. How was the man brought there, when? Was he found already incapacitated or did he succumb to wound when in tent?
Again, we need more information to pass judgement.

As for other things - it is a mess, that's for sure. The fire in the square was massive. But it's as easy to say protesters used "Berkut" as an excuse to set the buildings on fire, as it is to say Berkut used "square fire" as a cover to set the buildings on fire themselves.
Same for gunshots. Lot's of reports flying around about people getting shot - protesters AND police. Some say police shot protesters, some say other protesters did and the same on the police side.
Media lying? Which media? Who should we trust and who we shouldn't?

I appreciate any sort of information anyone can provide. But jumping to conclusions and bashing without evidence does not help ANYONE.

Keep posting here, webber, it's ok to let your voice be heard. Just do it in more sensible manner.

[Sheb]

What Sinistar said, sorry for being aggressive, but I got a semi-personnal dislike of Russian medias ever since my dad gave an interview to RT and they cut end edited it until it was saying the opposite of what he wanted to say.

[LordSlowpoke]

point to media which does not do so

reuters maybe but they can't cover everything

[Sergarr]

What Sinistar said, sorry for being aggressive, but I got a semi-personnal dislike of Russian medias ever since my dad gave an interview to RT and they cut end edited it until it was saying the opposite of what he wanted to say.

Can you tell the subject of that interview?

[Sheb]

I can probably dig it up if you want, but it was just after the war in Georgia, my dad was managing relation with the international press for the Georgian government at the time.

Here's a written version, they had a video but I can't seem to find it. Also, while I was on rt.com, they report that law enforcement now have the right to use guns in self-defense.

2nd Edit: Here's the video. More or less the same thing.

[XXSockXX]

The thing is, some of the stuff webber was citing was reported here too, like the forced resignation of the governor of Volyn. Other stuff is however unverifiable and distorted.
We were even talking about how the protesters fueled the fire which they used as a smoke screen.
It's also true that the police doesn't have an order to shoot, but they are armed and are allowed to because of the anti-terror operation. Reporters have seen retreating police firing kalashnikovs.
Of the estimated 25-35 dead, only 1 is confirmed to be a police officer. Journalists in the Hotel UKraine at Maidan have seen the bodies of several civilian dead. These were shot in the neck, according to the reporters police snipers randomly shot them. There is a provisional medical camp in that Hotel. There are also some pistol-armed protesters there.
Some riot policemen were captured (~60 according to the protesters). Some Titushki (thugs) were also captured and beaten.

The major of Kiev has resigned and left the Party of Regions, as have some other MPs.
The government is closing access to Kiev and might declare the state of emergency, which likely means that Internet, TV and phone lines might get cut off.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

_

[Dutchling]

Ukranian Ranger, are you trying to get this thread locked?

[XXSockXX]

Yeah, UR, people shouldn't call you a Nazi, but you shouldn't let yourself be provoked into personal attacks either. We know this is personal for you, but insults don't help with staying on topic.

[Helgoland]

So I read about tanks in the streets of Kyev - any news on that? Could be that some journalist confused an APC with an actual tank, but I'd like to get better info.

[Dutchling]

Question about APCs: why aren't they fireproof? I mean, assuming they're owned by the riot police (and not borrowed from the army or something) you'd think someone would have realized that protestors tend to use molotovs...

[Helgoland]

Molotovs were invented in Finland as anti-tank weapons. It must be kinda hard to molotov-proof something.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No bet. Putin isn't suicidal enough to test NATO's mutual protection clause.

Ukraine isn't a NATO member.

Huh, so it isn't. I could have swore I read an article saying it was, but I guess that was just referencing the Intensified Dialogue between Ukraine and NATO. Still no bet.

[Sinistar]

I've seen footage on the BBC - that APC back from 18th was't really that badly damaged. Burn marks were obvious, at least two wheels seemed destroyed, but it is to be expected those things are a lot more molotov-proof than, say, a car.