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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Special note for Russians: I am biased

Recent news:  Opposition reached agreement with the dictator, we give up huge amount of captured territory instead he promised to release arrested people in 3 day term and cancel the recent laws. People said "fuck you" to opposition's plan and went building new barricades

In various Western and Central regions government institutions are under attack. Some are captured, some are under siege

Main road to Poland is blocked by protesters, no trucks are allowed to pass.

Many photos taken during yesterday ceasefire

Video where "police" tortures an arrested man. Was posted in Internet by one of them

Spoiler: Ukrainians love to read a good book (click to show/hide)

[Dutchling]

Posting to watch and hoping for a peaceful end.

[scrdest]

It's much worse than I expected.

[Sergarr]

Dates of first and second Ukrainian-Soviet wars, please.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Dates of first and second Ukrainian-Soviet wars, please.

1917-1921
and
1943-1953*
*end date varies because that was a guerrilla war

[XXSockXX]

UR, as has been said in the Eurothread, while we may not agree with your views, we are interested in what you have to say. Since you're open about having a certain bias, we can apply our own thoughts while getting your unique perspective on the events in Ukraine.

Having said that, I think it would be wise to choose a less polarizing and misleading thread title. Currently this is neither a war nor are there technically speaking any Soviets involved (I know you see your government as that). I guess a title like this will only cause flamewars, pointless sidetracking and semantics debates about what constitutes a Ukrainian-Soviet war, and prevent any discussion about the intended topic.

[Dutchling]

Soviets involved (I know you see your government as that)

I just spent ten minutes wondering why I couldn't find any source about a Russian military intervention in the Ukraine >.>

[XXSockXX]

Soviets involved (I know you see your government as that)

I just spent ten minutes wondering why I couldn't find any source about a Russian military intervention in the Ukraine >.>

That's what I mean. Also Russians are not Soviets since we are not in the 1980's.

Video where "police" tortures an arrested man. Was posted in Internet by one of them

Here's a version of that video from German news, for those who can't get past that youtube age verification thing.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Changed the name to neutral one, but I still view this as war against Soviets that de jure don't exist but de facto just changed their names. It's same ideology

And yes, I have no doubts that it is a war, thousands passed the point of no return, it will be either death\prison\exile or victory. Same for Yanukovich. And I have no doubts that Russia is involved, at the very least with advisors

If we are lucky this war will have few causalities

[Dutchling]

Those pictures remind me a lot of Fallout, and to a lesser extent of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Soviets involved (I know you see your government as that)

I just spent ten minutes wondering why I couldn't find any source about a Russian military intervention in the Ukraine >.>

That's what I mean. Also Russians are not Soviets since we are not in the 1980's.

You're right of course, but that doesn't change the fact that I've never Soviet being used as anything other than a synonym for Russian. I guess the word actually has meaning in the East

[fivex]

How close is this to an actual civil war?

[XXSockXX]

Changed the name to neutral one, but I still view this as war against Soviets that de jure don't exist but de facto just changed their names. It's same ideology

And yes, I have no doubts that it is a war, thousands passed the point of no return, it will be either death\prison\exile or victory. Same for Yanukovich. And I have no doubts that Russia is involved, at the very least with advisors

If we are lucky this war will have few causalities

Well, that was probably a good idea, so the thread can stay on topic.

I too hope there will be as few casualties as possible. From what it looks like now, even if the situation doesn't escalate further, this will not be over soon. The ultimatum didn't achieve that much and further negotiations will take time. A lot depends now on how long both sides can keep it relatively calm.

You're right of course, but that doesn't change the fact that I've never Soviet being used as anything other than a synonym for Russian. I guess the word actually has meaning in the East

Sure, just wanted to preempt the inevitable debate about that word. 

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, protestors are occupying buildings, the opposition certainly isn't in control anymore, and it doesn't look like Yanukovich is going to give up. The west is gradually proceeding through their list of sternly worded letters, but isn't going to do anything else. (Not that there's much that they can do, but anyway.)

Anyway, with the protest spreading across various cities, I don't think it won't be long before this further escalates and the police starts to randomly fire into crowds to disperse them. This will cause the EU to break of all relations with Ukraine, giving Russia it's victory, and a new satellite state.

Wait, is this an actual civil war now?

Not really. Far to few deaths to be considered one. Common definition is that a civil war must have at least 1000 deaths per year of conflict, and unlike at least 100 on each side.

[Helgoland]

Apparentlyy four Western cities have been taken by pretesters, and with six more it's just a question of time, according to the newspaper Die Zeit. One governor or soo has already been forced to resign.
Also, likelihood of Russian military intervention if things get out of hand? Likelihood of European counter-intervention? Likelihood of a War of European Unification? =P

[Dutchling]

A European counter-intervention? That's seems less likely than the UN -- scrap that, a League of Nations counter-intervention xD
(and yes, I am aware of Russia's position in the UN)