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Author Topic: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor  (Read 49340 times)

Aptus

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2014, 01:01:59 pm »

Colour me mostly skeptical with a dash of curiosity. I like the "idea" of it, a one-man guerilla war in mordor sounds like it could be interesting buuut there are too many red flags for me to allow myself to be excited.

1) The assassins creed of it... I grew tired of AC after the second one. Have not finished one after that.
2) The "nemesis" system. The cynic in me tells me it will not work. "There are no generic canned enemies", the whole randomization thing inherently contradicts this since the enemies being randomized means they can't possibly have an actual personality other than something like [select x random traits from pool].
3) The combat looks like the same crappy batman one button combat I have grown oh so tired of but seems to pop up in every game nowadays.
4) The Dishonored magic abilities that may be there to act as a crutch for the game, ie the magic vision, we wouldn't want anyone actually getting lost for a second, we better make sure everything is highlighted with huge glowing arrows and neon signs.
5) Play your way... this has ruined so many games for me. In the effort of making all playstyles possible (stealth, "guns blazing" etc.) it usually turns into a bland mess.
6) QTE's...

Uhh... I realized this turned out to be way more negative than I had intended from the start but yeah... these are my thoughts at the moment. I am a little bit curious but I will certainly wait. I would say for reviews and stuff but seeing as there is already a season pass out and this game isn't in the *souls series I will hold off until some kind of complete edition, that is, if it's not shit.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 01:22:43 pm by Aptus »
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Parsely

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2014, 01:34:15 pm »

3) The combat looks like the same crappy batman one button combat I have grown oh so tired of but seems to pop up in every game nowadays.
Er, p sure batman is the only other game in recent memory that's a 3D action beat 'em up with a combo system that earns you instant kill moves when you hit a certain multiplier.

It does seem a bit outrageous that they'd just straight rip it with apparently no real changes, even the upgrades are similar, but its produced by the same company as the Batman games so it's no small wonder they'd reuse a fun system that's from one of their other, extremely successful games. Batman games were fun as hell, so yeah for now I'm quite down for Dark Knight with morder. :v
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bluwolfie

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #77 on: September 26, 2014, 01:52:19 pm »

Colour me mostly skeptical with a dash of curiosity. I like the "idea" of it, a one-man guerilla war in mordor sounds like it could be interesting buuut there are too many red flags for me to allow myself to be excited.

1) The assassins creed of it... I grew tired of AC after the second one. Have not finished one after that.
2) The "nemesis" system. The cynic in me tells me it will not work. "There are no generic canned enemies", the whole randomization thing inherently contradicts this since the enemies being randomized means they can't possibly have an actual personality other than something like [select x random traits from pool].
3) The combat looks like the same crappy batman one button combat I have grown oh so tired of but seems to pop up in every game nowadays.
4) The Dishonored magic abilities that may be there to act as a crutch for the game, ie the magic vision, we wouldn't want anyone actually getting lost for a second, we better make sure everything is highlighted with huge glowing arrows and neon signs.
5) Play your way... this has ruined so many games for me. In the effort of making all playstyles possible (stealth, "guns blazing" etc.) it usually turns into a bland mess.
6) QTE's...

Uhh... I realized this turned out to be way more negative than I had intended from the start but yeah... these are my thoughts at the moment. I am a little bit curious but I will certainly wait. I would say for reviews and stuff but seeing as there is already a season pass out and this game isn't in the *souls series I will hold off until some kind of complete edition, that is, if it's not shit.

Some reviews have already went up, and the combat seems extremely tight. I don't know what you mean by bland but to me personally is looks fucking awesome.
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Aptus

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #78 on: September 26, 2014, 02:22:31 pm »

3) The combat looks like the same crappy batman one button combat I have grown oh so tired of but seems to pop up in every game nowadays.
Er, p sure batman is the only other game in recent memory that's a 3D action beat 'em up with a combo system that earns you instant kill moves when you hit a certain multiplier.

It does seem a bit outrageous that they'd just straight rip it with apparently no real changes, even the upgrades are similar, but its produced by the same company as the Batman games so it's no small wonder they'd reuse a fun system that's from one of their other, extremely successful games. Batman games were fun as hell, so yeah for now I'm quite down for Dark Knight with morder. :v

It is not the only one, there are several games that basically copied the batman/ac system more or less. And I really don't see what is so fun with it, there is no challenge involved whatsoever. Get mobbed by enemies who look at you while you press one button and watch out for the hugely telegraphed attacks that can be instantly countered.

Some reviews have already went up, and the combat seems extremely tight. I don't know what you mean by bland but to me personally is looks fucking awesome.

Not from anyone I care about, and the combat seems tight in the same way that batmans did. In an incredibly bland way. See the spoilered video in my previous post for what I mean with this.

Either way, I'm not here to rain on anyones parade, if you are excited, go forth and enjoy it. I will hold off  :)
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Parsely

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #79 on: September 26, 2014, 03:35:11 pm »

Wow. You never played the difficulty modes where they removed the floaty "counter me please" signs then, else you're just the best Batman player ever because I had a fuck of a time beating the game on maximum difficulty with no counter tells and only a single life.

Fakeedit: I Am The Night mode I think it was called. You had to win without dying once, enemies can kill you in one or two hits if they have weapons (pipes, bats, knives and such) and guns kill you instantly, even with max armor upgrades later on you simply can't afford to tank attacks ever. I did the mode prior to that (floaty counter signs are invisible) and then the ironman mode (one life, die you restart, plus no counter signs), it was super challenging and fighting the bosses were some of the tensest moments I've ever had doing a challenge run in a video game. The combat does have a lot of depth if you use the multitude of gadgets and abilities provided. >:v Doing the challenge modes and trying to get your combo super high is fun as all hell, too. I think you haven't played the game very much.

Also I don't really sense very many AC elements in this game. Watching him run around gave me that vibe, but the fighting is almost exactly Batman, albeit with more murder. AC bad guys are stupidly easy to anticipate, especially compared to the ones in Arkham City. AC doesn't even have any difficulty settings.. Enemies move faster and hit harder on higher difficulties in Batman.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 03:37:45 pm by GUNINANRUNIN »
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dennislp3

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2014, 03:40:07 pm »

To be fair...ANY action game...that is hack and slash oriented with get "boring" or repetitive...doesnt matter if its AC or Batman or whatever. It looks like to me it is challenging enough and enjoyable because it seems pretty face paced. The videos of gameplay I have seen are from the same guy...someone who has played it a ton and he doesnt appear to just hit one button and constantly auto win all day like in AC.
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Aptus

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #81 on: September 26, 2014, 03:50:33 pm »

Fakeedit: I Am The Night mode I think it was called. You had to win without dying once, enemies can kill you in one or two hits if they have weapons (pipes, bats, knives and such) and guns kill you instantly, even with max armor upgrades later on you simply can't afford to tank attacks ever.
Yeah, that sounds more tedious than interesting. Putting the game on bullshit-difficulty does not make a game with a bland combat system interesting, it just makes it a game with a bland combat system and bullshit-difficulty.
You still have the issue of enemies mobbing you, standing around, waiting to get smacked down, engaging you one at a time. Hugely telegraphed attacks (even without the "markers") and repetitive button mashing. It just makes it so you have to redo it all over again if you fall asleep in the middle of a combo and get hit.

Quote
Doing the challenge modes and trying to get your combo super high is fun as all hell, too.
Depends on your definition of fun. I find it repetitive and dull.

Quote
I think you haven't played the game very much.
You would be correct, I finished the first two games once and I have no intention of playing another one. Now I quite enjoyed the games none the less, but it was in SPITE of the combat, not because of it.


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Cthulhu

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #82 on: September 26, 2014, 03:54:42 pm »

Talking about the hardest difficulty on Batman isn't really representative of normal gameplay.  Batman's combat (I think I played on hard mode?) was pretty lame.  It felt good in that primal sense but when you looked at it from a distance it was basically pushing the attack button over and over and occasionally countering.  Really AC is the same way.  All these open world games have almost play-for-you combat systems designed to make you feel like you're kicking ass and taking names while you push one button over and over.

It still looks sweet though.
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Parsely

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2014, 04:36:02 pm »

((All the following is based on my experience in Batman: Arkham Origins playing on I Am the Night, to clarify.))

You can't simply counter if you expect to win the fight on higher difficulties, you need to use gadgets and pummeling and redirection in order to keep from getting surrounded. If you don't stay on the edge of the crowd and manage your opponents by stunning and using your cape to incapacitate guys with batons or on venom, you can get overpowered easily. If you keep them all in front of you, you can at most be attacked by two guys at once, as opposed to four, plus the guy in the back throwing his pipe/box/fire extinguisher.

Fakeedit: I Am The Night mode I think it was called. You had to win without dying once, enemies can kill you in one or two hits if they have weapons (pipes, bats, knives and such) and guns kill you instantly, even with max armor upgrades later on you simply can't afford to tank attacks ever.
Yeah, that sounds more tedious than interesting. Putting the game on bullshit-difficulty does not make a game with a bland combat system interesting, it just makes it a game with a bland combat system and bullshit-difficulty.
You still have the issue of enemies mobbing you, standing around, waiting to get smacked down, engaging you one at a time. Hugely telegraphed attacks (even without the "markers") and repetitive button mashing. It just makes it so you have to redo it all over again if you fall asleep in the middle of a combo and get hit.
Guy, you were just complaining about low difficulty and the game being too easy. Not being told outright when someone is going to hit you and actually having to pay attention and read your opponents' movements is far more exciting than pressing Y when the blue light flashes. And I don't know what you're on about the game being a 1 button fighter, there's different combinations you need to press if you want to win the fight without being brought down, like when enemies with guns or shields are present. You also have to use your grapnel, explosive gel, batarangs in order to keep guys off you and keep your combo going, because it's nigh on impossible to take an enemy out just by punching him, you need to use your takedowns to incapacitate them, and between takedowns you use dodging and gadgets to manage enemies, keep them close together, knocked down, stunned, and guns out of their hands. Not to mention on higher difficulties up to 3 or 5 guys can be striking you at once. Good god man, by your description you never ventured above easy or normal. Come off it

E: You can't even expect to survive a mid to late game fight in Batman simply by pressing 'Y' (if on the Xbox) to counter, because many times the moves require more input (dodging a knife requires you to hold 'Y' and move the stick back and is easy, countering and disarming him is harder), not to mention there are more than a few enemies with uncounterable attacks, like shield attacks, attacks by thugs on venom or armed with stun batons, attacks by enemies with guns. The game simply cannot be boiled down that easily.

Admittedly, it really does get that simple at times on lower difficulties, but I don't consider that to be the vanilla experience, or rather, how the game was meant to be played.

AC on the other hand is a one-button action game, though they did make a half-hearted attempt to make things deeper later on.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 01:06:52 am by GUNINANRUNIN »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #84 on: September 26, 2014, 05:35:49 pm »

AC is really a one button game in general.  I hate autopilot parkour but I'm not really sure how to do it otherwise without being overly complicated.

The only thing in AC that really isn't autopilot is the actual planning of an assassination and doing it clean but even that's pretty simple. 
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SharpKris

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2014, 06:10:35 pm »

my only wish is that they make it more complex then an AC or Arkhem button mashing ftw.
seriously i'd give it a long wait before handing my cash over for this AC LOTR edition
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Parsely

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2014, 08:21:33 pm »

AC is really a one button game in general.  I hate autopilot parkour but I'm not really sure how to do it otherwise without being overly complicated.

The only thing in AC that really isn't autopilot is the actual planning of an assassination and doing it clean but even that's pretty simple.
Pretty much yeah. *holds right trigger down and left stick forward* That'll get yah through most of the game. It's really disappointing because I liked where they were going with the hookblade thing in one of the spinoffs, that was actually pretty neat.

Yeah.. Really it comes down to shoot him from the rooftop or stab him in the street, depending on what kind of bored you are.

my only wish is that they make it more complex then an AC or Arkhem button mashing ftw.

seriously i'd give it a long wait before handing my cash over for this AC LOTR edition
Did anyone actually play I Am the Night besides me..? :v This is a really big disappointment for me actually.

The whole officers thing is unique enough that I'm pretty interested, though surely it'd get old fast. Still a really awesome idea.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2014, 08:32:58 pm »

The review I read was pretty positive about it.  The officers are apparently fairly challenging and they develop through killing you as much as through being beaten by you.

So you get killed by an orc and he rises through the ranks, getting tougher and more famous, and the reviewer said he felt lost when he finally killed the orc assassin who took him out seven times.  The villain had given the last ten or so hours of his game experience meaning and now he's gone.
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Parsely

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2014, 09:09:32 pm »

That's really really awesome. And the gameplay that was linked felt very honest. They got killed a few times, beat up bad guys, showed off some features and just generally played around. If it's as challenging, if not more challenging than Arkham City then I'll be a happy camper.

So what's the explanation for the player character coming back after dying? Is it just written off or is there some feasible explanation for why it's not game over?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 09:11:50 pm by GUNINANRUNIN »
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Aptus

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Re: Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2014, 12:52:22 am »

Guy, you were just complaining about low difficulty and the game being too easy.
[insert obligatory I'm not your guy, friend.]
There is a difference between difficulty and difficulty. There is a difference between Dark Souls and I wanna be the guy. And no, my complaint wasn't primarily with it being easy, it was with it being bland and dull. So once again, putting the game on bullshit-difficulty does not make a game with a bland combat system interesting, it just makes it a game with a bland combat system and bullshit-difficulty.

You apparently managed to find a lot more fun in the game than I did, good for you, but I did not. The gadget system for example just felt like the whole, oh lordie the enemy has ice shield, better use my fire attack once to break it. Oh no the enemy has fire shield, better use my ice attack once to break it.

I just did not find it interesting, and other games seemingly copying the whole cinematic autocombat system of that series is just boring for me.

Either way, let's just agree to disagree, you won't magically make me like a system I don't and I am not out to make you dislike a game you obviously have had a ton of fun with :)

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