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[Mono124]

Err, I thought that even though they are all called Ringwraiths, wraiths are called ringwraiths because the most prominent examples are the 9 Men that were given rings forged by Sauron that put them under his will... so not all wraiths are under Sauron's dominion.

[Parsely]

Batman x Assassin's Creed.

Well not all wraiths belong to Sauron, it's just the Ring Wraiths, right?

Wraiths were for the most part completely dominated by Sauron. They are called Ringwraiths after the second age, Wraiths is just a colloquial term to refer to them. Wraiths = Ghosts, weren't as much of evil dicks before Sauron appeared and corrupted them. Second age onward wraiths that aren't under the dominion of Sauron are exceedingly rare, exceptions being the men of Dunharrow and certain possession issues.

That's why I'm interested in the explanation for why this [Ring]wraith was able to break the domination that holds them under his will.

Uh, I thought the 'Ring Wraiths' were specifically the 9 men who were corrupted by the rings of power (and I know what wraiths are thanks :v) but I guess what you're saying is that all wraiths are under his power, somehow? Why is that? I don't recall any other wraiths aside from the Nazgull (the ring wraiths) helping Sauron..

No, the main character, a Ranger, was killed by the armies of Sauron and became a wraith somehow. He's not possessed or being helped by a wraith or something weird like that.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I believe becoming a wraith became synonymous with Sauron's corruption after the domination of the kings. It's hard to find any actual canon information on post-second age Wraiths that aren't the main 9 servants. Odd. Some sources even say there were no wraiths after the 9 were created but.. that's not possible.. There's a whole dimension of them.

[Parsely]

I believe becoming a wraith became synonymous with Sauron's corruption after the domination of the kings. It's hard to find any actual canon information on post-second age Wraiths that aren't the main 9 servants. Odd. Some sources even say there were no wraiths after the 9 were created but.. that's not possible..

And thus we make the cross into fanfic-land.

[dennislp3]

From what I have been able to dig up they are exceptionally rare but not actually connected to sauron....ringwraiths are a type of wraith that are due to the power of the rings...but they do not encompass them as a whole. They apparently come about by dying with great dishonor and some other stuff like that...

I am going to ~speculate~ that the wraith inside Talion is somebody who probably died in a dishonorable way and because of that they are trying to redeem their soul...be it that they abandoned an oath or something else...

[hermes]

Are you talking about wights?

[Parsely]

Um, the wraith guy who's inside Talion forged (some?) of the rings of power. o_o

Celebrimbor was a Ñoldorin prince, last of the House of Fëanor left in Middle-earth, ruler of the Second Age realm of Eregion, and the forger of the Rings of Power. He was the son of Curufin, fifth son of Fëanor and Nerdanel.

Celebrimbor settled into Eregion during the Second Age, and in SA 1500, Sauron befriended him, claiming to be sent down by the Valar as an emissary. He then took control of the smiths and instructing them to craft a set of rings, which would eventually become the Rings of Power, as he in secret created the most powerful of them all, The One Ring.

Celebrimbor was the one to forge the most powerful of the rings, only weaker to Sauron's very own. These were the rings of the Elves: Vilya, Narya and Nenya. Unable to lay his hands on them, Sauron attacked Eregion, destroying the land and capturing Celebrimbor, putting him under extreme torment until he disclosed the whereabouts of the lesser rings. But Celebrimbor refused to disclose the locations of the Elvish rings, and thus he died under harsh conditions and the torture he was subjugated to.

This caused Celebrimbor to become a Wraith. And hundreds of years later, during the period of the Third Age, he possessed the Ranger Talion, setting the events of their revenge into motion.

This is actually super interesting IMHO.

[dennislp3]

well I suppose I wasn't too far off in my speculation lol...and no wraiths are a catch all term for someone who has become an undead entity...at least thats what I am seeing. Wights are from necromancy

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Well, considering he's the reason Sauron ever gained dominion thanks to telling him where the rings were [not faulting him, the torture was probably on a whole other level], I'd say that's plenty enough 'regret' and 'dishonor' suffered to become a very angry, very vengeful, very old Wraith.

Nice to see actual reasoning behind this. I'm absolutely satisfied with name-dropping and implementing very old LOTR [Okay, Silmarillion] characters if they're relevant and haven't been used a million times in other games. That's the beauty of such a large amount of hard lore to pluck stuff from.


Also further on wraiths:

The story involves the Rings of Power, but the story is separate to The Lord of the Rings canon. The Monolith team is working with Middle-earth Enterprises, Peter Jackson and the artists at the Weta Workshop to make sure that the settings, characters and story align with the canon of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.[1] However, there are inconsistencies between the game's story and Tolkien's legendarium. For example, Tolkien noted that, aside from Beren, dead men did not return to life in Middle-earth.

How is this possible though? Tolkien gives wraiths their entire own dimension from which they're plucked.. How would *no* wraiths ever get made or spawn after the second age? Because of Sauron's corruption? I'm a bit baffled. Damn you Tolkien!

[Parsely]

Becoming a wraith isn't the same as coming back to life. Also the men of Dunharrow aren't wraiths, their haunting spirits came about because of their betrayal of Isildur, not dark sorcery, which is how wraiths are created. They're just cursed specters. The Ring Wraiths are the only wraiths in the entire canon of Lord of the Rings aside from perhaps one or two other insignificant individuals.

---
A bit late, but Uruk refers to Orcs as a species and Uruk-Hai refers specifically to the super orcs birthed by Sauron and Saruman.

Black Uruks originated before the Great Years; used against Ithilien when Sauron returned, and that is their only Time-Line reference. They could have been birthed the way Saruman did his Uruks, which however came afterwards: cross-bred between orcs and half-orcs (i.e. Goblin-men).

So Sauron first used them before the Third Age but Saruman was the one who employed them most majorly when he attacked Rohan.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Becoming a wraith isn't the same as coming back to life. Also the men of Dunharrow aren't wraiths, their haunting spirits came about because of their betrayal of Isildur, not dark sorcery, which is how wraiths are created. They're just cursed specters. The Ring Wraiths are the only wraiths in the entire canon of Lord of the Rings aside from perhaps one or two other insignificant individuals.

Wraiths in were the common apparition; someone who had been killed yet lives on by some dark sorcery (necromancy or a Morgul-blade), or someone who died in darkness or serious dishonor.

The Dunharrow men were wraiths. Ghosts and wraiths are the same thing in LOTR. If this Wraith still has the desire for vengeance as the original being did, is it not a resurrection of the dead person Cerebrimbor? Just because he's possessing a living person doesn't make it any less of a resurrection of his spirit. Especially in this universe where 'life' persists after mortal death in many instances. I believe that's why Tolkien explicitly stated no man has ever returned, not a being. I guess that helps leaving it to possession resurrections across time instead of hemming dead people into revive or nothing resurrections. I guess he wasn't specific enough to say one way or the other, just it's easy to consider a revived spirit a coming back to life in certain terms.

[dennislp3]

The Ring Wraiths are the only wraiths in the entire canon of Lord of the Rings aside from perhaps one or two other insignificant individuals.

Whoa there...not so fast lol

History
First Age
During the First Age, the love sick Gorlim having betrayed his comrades in arms appeared to Beren as a Wraith, confessing what he had done.

Second Age
During Sauron's influence and rule in Middle-earth, he swayed and corrupted nine powerful Men of Númenórean and Easterling stock by giving them each one of the nine Rings of Power. Afterwards, they slowly faded into darkness, becoming Ringwraiths enslaved to the will of Sauron, fated to roam the world until their end.

Third Age
The Dunlendings feared that Helm Hammerhand was a Wraith that wandered through Rohan as its protector.

No other evidence of any other Wraiths are recorded as existing in Middle-earth, save for the Ringwraiths, who continued in the East and in Mordor and when the Ring was discovered came out to search for it. When Frodo is stabbed by the Witch-King of Angmar in the first book he is infected by the evil magic from a Morgul blade; if Glorfindel had not saved Frodo, he would have eventually become a Wraith himself.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Also, fun fact about wraiths.. Dwarves can't become them. Somehow. More proof of our bearded superiority. Still wouldn't take a bet to get stabbed by one, though. No need to test the theory.

All this LOTR lore delving makes me really wish this were out already. There's too few LOTR games that aren't the movie games and don't suck. Third age could have been an amazing project were it not hamstrung by EA's stupid stupid rights ownership fiasco.

[Parsely]

..aside from perhaps one or two other insignificant individuals.

@dennis Uh, I don't see where that states any other important wraiths existing, aside from Gorlim from the Silmarrion. It states quite literally that there is a total of 10 mentioned by Tolkien, and Frodo would've become one but he didn't. I don't see what that proves. >_>

No other evidence of any other Wraiths are recorded as existing in Middle-earth, save for the Ringwraiths,

So that basically covers..everything.

The Dunharrow men were wraiths.

If this Wraith still has the desire for vengeance as the original being did, is it not a resurrection of the dead person Cerebrimbor?

Just because he's possessing a living person doesn't make it any less of a resurrection of his spirit. Especially in this universe where 'life' persists after mortal death in many instances.

No they're not, otherwise I'm sure dennis' list up there or the wiki I'm looking at would say so. Not to mention they don't even resemble the Ring Wraiths in appearance, and in the book they are immaterial and they can't touch anything unlike a wraith which walks around and rides horses and stabs stuff with a sword like a person. :v

Well we know that dead men can't return to life in Middle-Earth, so surely that means that being a wraith is somehow different from being brought back to life, or maybe Tolkien's definition of 'brought back to life' is different from ours somehow (can't imagine what that would imply)..

And it wasn't his possession of Talion that made him become a wraith or what makes him undead, which is sort of what it sounds like when you put it that way. I'm pretty sure he can exist outside of Tallion since he's been a wraith for hundreds of years by the time they're thrown together. Tallion was going to die and then he was possessed by Celebrimbor for some yet-to-be-stated reason which prevented his passing, and at that point they're inhabiting the same body (lord knows why since a wraith shouldn't need to piggyback some other mortal in order to manifest physically and affect the world, especially one as "powerful" as he).

[Sensei]

I'm pretty sure the Ring Wraiths are just the Nine, the men given rings, who "faded" from using them too much. Source: Second and third chapters of The Fellowship of the Ring.