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Yes.

14 (18.9%)

No.

27 (36.5%)

I had no idea it existed until I read this.

33 (44.6%)

Total Members Voted: 73

[wierd]

Ahh--

But say, what about the people 3 streets over-- the drunken party goers routinely drive over their lawns, pee on the hedges, and put bags of feces in hidden places, as well as scrawl obscenities with spraypaint.

They are having "a good time".


When it is OK for these people to go and try to talk with the party hosts?



And for the at least 6th time GG,

I am ambivalent about adult MLP fans, and hold no opinion of them. You are lobbing personal attacks that lack merit, and it is disturbing.

[GlyphGryph]

You're the one who keeps changing the context of the situation. I'm responding to whatever the last stance you took was.

So now the situation is "I don't mind these people are having parties, it's fine with me, I don't care. When should I go complain?"

In which case the answer is: never.

That you seem unable to ignore what you do/don't think is bad behaviour (please, just decide what you think for the context of this conversation so I can respond appropriately and stop vacillating to constantly avoid every point I make and avoid having to defend your own) is even worse if you don't actually care about it.

Hell, I don't even know if this is a fucking hypothetical or not any more, since my responses were within the confines of what I thought was the actual hypothetical you were proposing. Stop muddying the waters and just say what you bloody well mean already, then! This is growing exasperating. What do you frickin' want from me here? Because you're certainly not sharing anything of value, which is sort of the one thing I asked for, and now you're doing nothing but being fucking coy about what you even want to discuss.

[Elephant Parade]

It's immediately okay. It's still a flawed comparison, though. I don't see how running over people's lawns is the same as having a forum dedicated to a particular topic and not wanting to hear "LOL THIS SUCKS" for the ten-thousandth time.

[wierd]

It's immediately okay. It's still a flawed comparison, though. I don't see how running over people's lawns is the same as having a forum dedicated to a particular topic and not wanting to hear "LOL THIS SUCKS" for the ten-thousandth time.

Perhaps this strawman will help:

"Man, I am SO SICK of those tight assed prudes in this neighborhood constantly calling the cops on us man! This is a free country, and I can have a party whenever I damned well want to! And I wanna serve beer and play the music I like, I should be allowed to! Fucker's got no right to be chargin up here tellin' me to quit!"


There's two sides to every dispute. Simply because MLP fans often get bagged on, doesn't mean they should invade en-mass.

Likewise, a visit to their house (the MLP forum) asking them to please stop, isn't immediately a troll.

If you note, the two instances I mentioned, and the anectdote revealed to me by a friend of mine (and trust me, I toned down the word choice a lot.) The damage was being done outside of the party house. (Eg, not on the MLP fan forums). It was being done elsewhere. In the linked case, at DeviantArt. That very much is "running over the grass."

If it is immediately OK to go tell the party host to please stop, why is it not immediately OK to go ask the party hosts at the MLP forums to please stop?

GG:

Please, calm down. Making you angry is not what I am after. I am simply trying to illustrate how you can't jump straight to "you're trollololololing!", when the neighbors get fed up, and come pay you a visit.

I am changing the approach, and the hypothetical situation used to illustrate how that is, based on your reactions, in the hopes of finding a suitable common context. Nothing more.

That said,

If anything, that the MLP fans already KNOW that the visit is comming, and moreover, WHY the visit is comming, i'd say that says a lot more about the situation. It says they KNOW they are pissing other people off, and don't care.

[Elephant Parade]

There's two sides to every dispute. Simply because MLP fans often get bagged on, doesn't mean they should invade en-mass.

Likewise, a visit to their house (the MLP forum) asking them to please stop, isn't immediately a troll.

...Um, yeah? But just because some people talk about it doesn't mean that they originate from that forum. Asking them to stop invading other forums is fine, but saying "MLP IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD" or telling them to never talk about it again is just rude.

[wierd]

Again, that's not what I suggested doing.

I didn't say go there and say "Die die die pony fagz lollzors!". That has never even been broached.

I said go there, and voice a rational opinion in opposition to adult MLP fans, then when asked by GG why somebody would want to do that without being a troll, I refined it to "go to the MLP forum to voice a rational argument in opposition to adult MLP fans, because the adult MLP fans are destroying other communities with their wrecklessness, and that this needs to stop."

If you throw a party, and don't drop a duce on the neighbor's porch or screw up their lawn or cause other chaos, then who gives a crap what you do at your party?

But if the party is crazy-- and some people do appear to be complaining about the party being so-- how is it trolling to go there and ask them to please stop?

[Elephant Parade]

Again, that's not what I suggested doing.

I didn't say go there and say "Die die die pony fagz lollzors!". That has never even been broached.

I said go there, and voice a rational opinion in opposition to adult MLP fans, then when asked by GG why somebody would want to do that without being a troll, I refined it to "go to the MLP forum to voice a rational argument in opposition to adult MLP fans, because the adult MLP fans are destroying other communities with their wrecklessness, and that this needs to stop."

If you throw a party, and don't drop a duce on the neighbor's porch or screw up their lawn or cause other chaos, then who gives a crap what you do at your party?

But if the party is crazy-- and some people do appear to be complaining about the party being so-- how is it trolling to go there and ask them to please stop?

I never said that telling them to stop invading other forums is wrong. Never. Either I misread something or you didn't get your point out properly, as it seemed more like you went to the forums specifically to disagree with them.

Again, there's no point in bugging them about it unless you know the annoyances are from that forum.

[wierd]

You could go there to ask if they know who (or which forum) did though. That still requires letting them know that you aren't an MLP fan. That was all the original suggestion was. Go there and let them know that-- the details were left purposefully blank, since it wasn't important to the question. 

[GlyphGryph]

Your example was never a request to stop invading other places. It was a post about your opposition to the MLP fandom.

Going to ask your neighbours to stop throwing parties because it bothers when you don't actually care if they throw parties IS trolling. And your example was specifically "you playing devils advocate", meaning you didn't actually care.

This is complaining about the noise just to mess with people.

I am changing the approach, and the hypothetical situation used to illustrate how that is, based on your reactions, in the hopes of finding a suitable common context. Nothing more.

Bullshit. You keep changing the specific situation to specifically avoid addressing the issues I raise in contrast.

What you said:
I went to the MLP forum to complain about the fandom. (Still don't know if this is hypothetical, it doesn't matter though)
What I said:
What did you hope to gain from this?
You said:
I just wanted to play devils advocate and open them up to opposing positions.
I said:
An outsider coming in to dishonestly start an argument (aka play devils advocate) is pretty much the definition of trolling.
You said:
I only did it because they invaded this DA comments thread and I wanted them to stop.
I said:
Then you weren't there to play devils advocate, you went to a fan forums and specifically tried to tell an already defensive group to change their behaviour. Where they even the same people? Also, saying you have a problem with them going places and wanting to share their opinions - isn't that the same thing you've been complaining against people doing here?
You said:
No, no, I have no problem with those MLP people! Again, just being devils advocate! (Implying that not only were you trying to shut down their off-site discussions, you were attempting to do so even though you didn't actually have a problem with them. This makes it worse, not better.) Oh, also, look at this totally unrelated analogy.
I said:
So you were trolling, then? Because in an actually relevant analogy to what you've described so far, you were trolling them. Like seriously, you have literally, multiple times now, described that were engaged in exact, by-the-book trolling.

Is there something about this exchange I've misunderstood?

Please, calm down. Making you angry is not what I am after. I am simply trying to illustrate how you can't jump straight to "you're trollololololing!", when the neighbors get fed up, and come pay you a visit.

If the neighbors are only acting like they are fed up, and they are targeting people who probably aren't even involved just for the chance to be contrary in public, and they are doing it solely in the context of a larger example about how trying to prevent people from making noise they don't like is bad, then yes, they are trolololing. That's what trolling is.

I am changing the approach, and the hypothetical situation used to illustrate how that is, based on your reactions, in the hopes of finding a suitable common context. Nothing more.

So you are... jockeying for position to achieve a better standing for persuasion? Are you trying to win the conversation? Is that what you're trying to say here? I honestly can't tell, but that is what it reads like. I know by this point you have problems communicating though, so I will let you attempt to clarify.

But in the situation you've described, both on the MLP forums and at the party, you were trolling, which is something most communities have rules against for incredibly good reason (It's disruptive, it makes people defensive, it interrupts the exchange of ideas, it enflames passions to no purpose, and the people who do it are dicks that aren't really worth having around for the most part anyway).

Like, I know there's a whole lot of claims of "trolling!" that go around, often completely unjustified, but the situations you have described are pretty much 100% explicit by-the-book trolling.

You could go there to ask if they know who (or which forum) did though. That still requires letting them know that you aren't an MLP fan. That was all the original suggestion was. Go there and let them know that-- the details were left purposefully blank, since it wasn't important to the question. 

You can, but no it doesn't, not it wasn't, and clearly it was.

You didn't say "Go to an MLP forum and tell them to stop invading other places because [...trolling? You still haven't actually given a reason here other than a desire to be contrarion, but that's still better than]", you said

Go to a MLP themed forum, and tell them that you disagree with adult fandom of MLP.

This is not the same thing. These are, in fact, wildly different situations. And in both cases, since the hypothetical you doesn't actually care, you would still be trolling, yes. In the context of this conversation, the first is actually worse, since you'd be trolling specifically to shut down the sort of activity you came into this thread to defend (exchanging of unpopular ideas and that you should totally engage with people on their off-topic rants and not ignore them).

I would think trying to stop them from talking at all is worse, anyway.

Let me know if I'm missing anything here, because this is the result of a re-read and analysis of the entire thread, and honestly I don't feel at this point like you're engaging with me honestly, or that you have anything of value to actually share. It seems like a whole lot of empty rhetoric and pointless supposition, mixed in with a little apologetics.

You are demonstrating yourself to be exactly the sort of person I don't want to engage with, and now I've wasted an entire reread and long-winded post responding to you. I am honestly wondering at this point if it's all some sort of satire?

[Elephant Parade]

You could go there to ask if they know who (or which forum) did though. That still requires letting them know that you aren't an MLP fan. That was all the original suggestion was. Go there and let them know that-- the details were left purposefully blank, since it wasn't important to the question.

No, it doesn't. You can politely ask if they know what's up with that, and leave it at that. You don't need to state that you're not a fan. They can infer it, but you don't need to say it.

Actually, can we shut this derail down, please? This conversation isn't really going anywhere, and people are probably tired of having their inboxes spammed.

---

So, possible merits of the Buddy List? Ways to make it more useful? We should discuss it. Personally, I think it should add them to a PM quicklist, since that might be handy for secret actions in games.

Edit: Fixed a word.

[GlyphGryph]

Agreed, I'll start a new thread to avoid it continuing.

[Gunner-Chan]

I think at the very least weird has shown why having an ignore button is a great idea. Though it's still immensely off topic.

Actually on topic though, I guess buddy list can be handy if you wanna know if specific people are active at a glance. Though they show up on the user list for long enough after leaving or logging out it's still kinda questionable.

I also wouldn't go starting a new thread, it wasn't really much of a discussion when he kept moving the goalposts around and doing tons of overblown examples and comparisons.

[Max White]

Also make it easier to find people if you want to message them... I guess?

[wierd]

Yes. Indeed. It was never my intention to do this, and a apologise.

I will go to the other thread.

[Frumple]

... yeah, little late, but I'd probably advocate against a new thread, as well. Boss Toad's mentioned more than once if a thread is spun off specifically to isolate a single argument, it's probably better that it not happen and the either the argument be dropped or the originating thread be locked, possibly both.

Which, Ele-P, you could do the locking bit >_>