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[Skyrunner]

I saw that parody feminist language that satirized the need for a feminist language, and it said exactly the same things these people are saying @_@ If the satire implements exactly what the satiree (?) wishes for, is it still satire?!

[ed boy]

I saw that parody feminist language that satirized the need for a feminist language, and it said exactly the same things these people are saying @_@ If the satire implements exactly what the satiree (?) wishes for, is it still satire?!

Is this not the same satire? I'm pretty sure it's just someone being very committed to the joke.

[Jelle]

My thoughts on feminism aside, I am actually rather curious on this whole 'feminist logic' thing. Logic is a subject that interests me particularly. I can agree on the criticism that the field of logic has been a male dominated scene by large, although wether gender is at all relevant in the matter is another thing.

So beyond criticizing artistotle and the many (men) who followed his footsteps as being gender biased, what does feminist logic propose exactly? Anyone who knows a bit more about it, or maybe knows some decent literature on it? Is it even an actual thing?
Edit: Alright should've read the whole thread. I'll read up on what's been posted earlier.

[nenjin]

My thoughts on feminism aside, I am actually rather curious on this whole 'feminist logic' thing. Logic is a subject that interests me particularly. I can agree on the criticism that the field of logic has been a male dominated scene by large, although wether gender is at all relevant in the matter is another thing.

So beyond criticizing artistotle and the many (men) who followed his footsteps as being gender biased, what does feminist logic propose exactly? Anyone who knows a bit more about it, or maybe knows some decent literature on it? Is it even an actual thing?

A description of what she believes feminist logic to be is in the link (although there is A LOT of text to sort through.) Basically, that things can be something and not be something and she believes she can build a programming language around that concept, where objects aren't "forced" to be anything, and can be everything! Or something along the lines of (A & -A = 1)

[Jelle]

My thoughts on feminism aside, I am actually rather curious on this whole 'feminist logic' thing. Logic is a subject that interests me particularly. I can agree on the criticism that the field of logic has been a male dominated scene by large, although wether gender is at all relevant in the matter is another thing.

So beyond criticizing artistotle and the many (men) who followed his footsteps as being gender biased, what does feminist logic propose exactly? Anyone who knows a bit more about it, or maybe knows some decent literature on it? Is it even an actual thing?

A description of what she believes feminist logic to be is in the link (although there is A LOT of text to sort through.) Basically, that things can be something and not be something and she believes she can build a programming language around that concept, where objects aren't "forced" to be anything, and can be everything! Or something along the lines of (A & -A = 1)

So basicly doing away with the law of identity, the prime law of rational discourse?
Any other notable interepretations, or is this basis of a feminist logic?

[nenjin]

So basicly doing away with the law of identity, the prime law of rational discourse?
Any other notable interepretations, or is this basis of a feminist logic?

To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm not that well-versed in it, but I suspect it's *her* definition of feminist logic as applied to computing, not necessarily the canonically understood definition of feminist logic.

(But maybe I'm just pigeonholing her with my patriarchal tyranny.)

[Leafsnail]

There are some weird and exotic forms of logical systems that allow things to be both true and not true, but they aren't really linked to feminism in any meaningful way.

[penguinofhonor]

Logic confuses me.

[TherosPherae]

This is incredibly silly. Probably just as silly as that one programming language built around Super Mario Bros., if not sillier.

[chaoticag]

Okay, did a biiit more research into what she was talking about. This is probably worth linking here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Barad

As far as I can put things together, I guess what we're looking at is the ideal programming language to compute the properties of quarks and fermions. Maybe. I should get back to my homework though.

[TherosPherae]

This is incredibly silly. Probably just as silly as that one programming language built around Super Mario Bros., if not sillier.

Never heard of that language.

If mario=1 print luigi

http://esolangs.org/wiki/MarioLANG

[Reelya]

I saw that parody feminist language that satirized the need for a feminist language, and it said exactly the same things these people are saying @_@ If the satire implements exactly what the satiree (?) wishes for, is it still satire?!

Is this not the same satire? I'm pretty sure it's just someone being very committed to the joke.

No, the Hastac project was the inspiration for the satire. The Hastac people are very much working within the postmodern feminist tradition. The whole language e.g. "non normative paradigms" and the like is a giveaway that this is coming from postmodern studies. And she quotes prior research by real feminist scholars.

Here's her twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/ariellebea

If she's a troll, she's so committed that she's been trolling constantly for months. And consider this post:

A non-normative paradigm would be something that does not reinforce normative realizations of what a programming language is. That is to say, not whatever paradigms (OOP, functional, logic, etc) and programming languages you would consider standard (Java, C++, Ruby, Python, to list a few). The ideas is that the standard, normative, concepts reinforce the values and ideologies of societies standards. Currently, there exist projects built in response to normative programming languages and standard computer science, check out mezangelle for an example. In many ways this falls under the scope of critical code studies, as I am asking questions about the cultural, social impact of normal programming constructs.

It's way too academic for an anti-feminist trolling effort. And mezangelle that she refers to is a real project. Here, she makes a categorization error showing off her non-critical thinking: Mezangelle is not a programming language, it's an "artistic" language which mixes words, ACSII art, emoticons and snippets of real programming code:

mezangelle mixes English, ASCII art, fragments from programming language source code, markup languages, regular expressions and wildcard patterns, protocol code, IRC shorthands, emoticons, phonetic spelling and slang. It is a polysemic multi-layered language that remixes the basic structure of English and computer code through the manipulation of syllables and morphemes. Like the related Codework of jodi, Netochka Nezvanova, Ted Warnell, Alan Sondheim and lo_y, it bears some resemblance to hacker cultural 1337 / leet speak and Perl poetry

[werty892]

What in the actual fuck.

[scrdest]

I saw that parody feminist language that satirized the need for a feminist language, and it said exactly the same things these people are saying @_@ If the satire implements exactly what the satiree (?) wishes for, is it still satire?!

Is this not the same satire? I'm pretty sure it's just someone being very committed to the joke.

No, the Hastac project was the inspiration for the satire. The Hastac people are very much working within the postmodern feminist tradition. The whole language e.g. "non normative paradigms" and the like is a giveaway that this is coming from postmodern studies. And she quotes prior research by real feminist scholars.

Here's her twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/ariellebea

If she's a troll, she's so committed that she's been trolling constantly for months. And consider this post:

A non-normative paradigm would be something that does not reinforce normative realizations of what a programming language is. That is to say, not whatever paradigms (OOP, functional, logic, etc) and programming languages you would consider standard (Java, C++, Ruby, Python, to list a few). The ideas is that the standard, normative, concepts reinforce the values and ideologies of societies standards. Currently, there exist projects built in response to normative programming languages and standard computer science, check out mezangelle for an example. In many ways this falls under the scope of critical code studies, as I am asking questions about the cultural, social impact of normal programming constructs.

It's way too academic for an anti-feminist trolling effort. And mezangelle that she refers to is a real project. Here, she makes a categorization error showing off her non-critical thinking: Mezangelle is not a programming language, it's an "artistic" language which mixes words, ACSII art, emoticons and snippets of real programming code:

mezangelle mixes English, ASCII art, fragments from programming language source code, markup languages, regular expressions and wildcard patterns, protocol code, IRC shorthands, emoticons, phonetic spelling and slang. It is a polysemic multi-layered language that remixes the basic structure of English and computer code through the manipulation of syllables and morphemes. Like the related Codework of jodi, Netochka Nezvanova, Ted Warnell, Alan Sondheim and lo_y, it bears some resemblance to hacker cultural 1337 / leet speak and Perl poetry

So, useless language, decent publicity stunt.

[MorleyDev]

Seems to me that this goes against what I'd say is a core part of creating equality of genders, namely this appears to be reinforcing the traditional concept of "masculinity" and "femininity" as core parts of a person's being, instead of the ultimate ideal deconstruction of those concepts and freeing both genders from the social restrictions placed upon them by those ideas of genders.

It's pigeon-holing when the entire point of feminism is to remove the pigeon holes.