webadict: Is there anything we can do to prevent the apocalypse?
I left this post up for a long time so it may lack responses to more recent stuff.
Erm... This is bastard mod, the last time I checked. What's your evidence that everything he is ambiguous on means he's hiding something important.
Because "using ambiguities to hide a twist" is pretty much the definition of any mystery/puzzle/bastard mod.
Ok, I know pretty much nothing of bastard games, so I'm going to put that bit aside for now as this seems to be overcomplicating things way too much for me right now.
Read the twists behind Bellsounder and M E I N K A M P F. If the town played either of those games with the mindset you have right now then they couldn't have possibly won, and I believe you are dooming yourself to the same fate by ignoring the clear puzzle behind a bastard game.
Even if you don't agree with my conclusion that NQT is scum, you should be able to agree with my subconclusion that he isn't confirmed town.
Same applies for the original KWN, barring a piece of random luck.
Leafsnail:
Why is it that you think we should kill NQT, when they are confirmed not-evil? Why would this be your first plan, rather than waiting for a day or so to see how things fold out?
Because there's absolutely nothing in the OP, the game start flavour or webadict's answers to our questions to suggest that "not-evil" = "a person we don't want to lynch", but webadict is clearly trying to play on that natural assumption by calling NQT "not-evil". In fact, I will turn the question around: why do you think NQT is confirmed as not scum in spite of the fact that webadict has told us nothing of the sort?
It's my first plan because I have now acquired a reputation for solving bastard games, so if the scum has a kill they will probably murder me night one to shut me up. Plus, the sooner I lay out my case the more time I have to argue for it.
For now, Leafsnail, your theory is completely substanceless: you think you have a reason to believe that I'm not a confirmed non-meteor-summoner, but that doesn't in any way prove that I am a meteor summoner.
It strongly suggests you are scum if the moderator is obviously trying to trick us into thinking you're confirmed. The fact that you're the only person who seems to know their alignment is also highly questionable: even if you're Good,
none of the rest of us know that we're good. That is, we could all be Neutral (we just want to stop the apocalypse) and you could be a Good Guy who wants to rid the world of all its sin and start anew.
I don't have direct proof, of course, but I think the puzzle behind the game strongly suggests that you are scum and the onus is on you to provide a real counterargument.
Killing everyone with a meteorite is evil. I am confirmed good and not evil.
This contradicts your previous paragraph. Anyway, I still have my two answers to this: firstly, that meteor launching needn't be evil (perhaps this is like NGE or something where the world will be reborn anew afterwards - purging the wicked could be A Good Cause), and secondly that we don't know if we're actually supposed to be lynching the meteor summoners. Heck, in the game start post webadict suggested that would be a bad idea.
Further, getting town to vote out the only confirmed good player is a reasonable scum strategy.
I love that this is your own reasoning for voting me after having accused me of making a weak argument. "What you're doing could be beneficial for mafia, maybe". That isn't an argument at all - you might as well claim anyone on a day one mislynch must be scum because getting a townie lynched on day one is a reasonable scum strategy.
In any case I question your definition of "reasonable scum strategy" if "attract tonnes of attention and votes to yourself on day one when you could just be engaging in meaningless chatter like everyone else" counts as one.
It's obvious you're just scared of the fact that I've exposed your secret this early, because
you have no actual logical reason to vote for me at all. At the very least, the reasoning you have is a lot weaker than mine.
Are you an evil non-meteor-summoner Leafsnail?
Yeah.
Leafsnail: why do you want to kill the only one we've got confirmation of being totally GoodTM?
Because this is a bastard mod, and having a mafia member falsely confirmed as town seems like a very solid bastard mod trick. Also, do you even know if you are Good yourself? Your argument relies entirely on the premise that the mod wouldn't make the mafia Good. In a bastard game.
Leafsnail: am awaiting an explanation that does not have holes or involve a massive amount of speculation, where your only defense is "can you prove otherwise". I respect that you are an experienced player who has cracked games, but your explanation seems far-fetched. It smacks of a scum trying to cover his arse to me.
Ah yes, the old "cover your arse by attracting tonnes of negative attention on day one" tactic. Seriously, what are you trying to accuse me of here?
Killing everyone, which a meteor impact will do, just ask the dinosaurs, oh wait you CAN'T, because they're all DEAD from meteor poisoning!!, is bad. Evil, even.
Again, how do you know? I would refer to NGE as an example of a show in which a non-evil person summoned an apocalyptic meteor (incidentally the angel/meteor references make me think this game might have some relation to it). And again, what makes you think we have to lynch the meteor summoners, even though the game starting post said that was a bad idea?
Why are you voting NQT? The vote-post explains to an audience, but leaves little for NQT to answer.
I explained several times. NQT has the accusation to answer, I don't just post fluff questions just for the hell of it.
The problem, Leafsnail, is that you are only looking at the first level of deception: the outright lies or misdirections. You aren't paying attention to the possible second level, where red herrings are planted to throw us off track. I doubt that bastard mods are meant to be puzzled out in the first day, and Wuba is good at what he does. I drew the conclusion you did upon first coming to understand what a bastard mod meant, but it is too simple. Anyone who assumed that the mod was lying on everything could come to the same conclusion you did.
No-one did, though. Before I made my post not a single other player had questioned the notion that NQT was town (in fact most players were rushing to say that he was), so clearly it isn't a super-obvious red herring at all. I guess webadict could hide a pretty hard to get at red herring, but I don't think it's likely. Red herrings are a bad thing to put into a puzzle because they make the puzzle a crapshoot of guessing which of the legitimate leads you have were just planted for no reason.
Also I didn't say that mod was lying. My argument follows from the assumption that the mod is telling the truth but also trying to mislead us.
In all likelyhood, the mod is preying on our assumptions of a bastard mod, because many of the players know to look for things like that. He said that he would only withhold information, but that does not mean that he will withhold ALL information.
This is just about possible, I guess. But it would be a very well hidden red herring (nobody else found it before I did) if it is one. Also, the best way to work out if it's a red herring or not is to lynch NQT.
Oh, and H.Walnuts: That would be an interesting twist, and something that I asked leafsnail to consider earlier, in a slightly different format, whereupon he told me that I was confirmed evil due to asking that.
"NQT is the only townie" is another possible interpretation, yeah. In that case we should lynch him because he's the minority.
That piece of speculation does imply you're evil though (particularly with the way HissinhWalnuts phrased it), because otherwise your role PM would contradict it ("Are all the players except NQT in the game scum? Oh wait a second I'm not, so that idea makes no sense"). I don't think being evil means you're scum in this game though, so go ahead and admit it.
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