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[LeoLeonardoIII]

But it looks cluttered now instead of just a drug flophouse like it normally does.

[Sappho]

Hmm. I'm starting to get crashes and glitches in the game. I thought the whole point of using this mod pack thingy was to prevent that from happening? In fact, it seems some of the mods are causing problems rather than fixing them. I got at least one message saying something about distant lands not being able to open properly, and the game crashed shortly after...

In any case, I'm working my way up the ranks of the fighters guild. So far I've managed to collect debts by bribing and talking rather than killing. The fighters guild is really brutal! They'll just kill anyone they have a contract for, it seems, and your boss will get really annoyed if you take too long eliminating someone.

On the other hand, I like how each of the characters really has its own personality. I tried talking to the guild leaders in different cities about orders I'd already carried out. One of them told me to stop pestering them about things that are already taken care of, another said I did a good job, another said they were glad I didn't have to resort to violence. Very impressive attention to detail, really.

I tried to join the thieves' guild but was told I don't meet their standards. Presumably there's some minimum stats you need for them? My thieving-related skills are pretty low, I guess. The mages guild let me join, though, even though I don't have any magic skills.

[PanH]

There's a quest of the Fighter's Guild, that, once you complete, makes you unable to join the Thieves Guild. It's probably that, since only attributes are required to get in a guild (but skills too to get promoted) and it's a low requirement (30 in two attributes).

[Robsoie]

If i remember well, out of some inefficiency from the engine itself that was leaking memory, one of the crashing reason was the saves going nuts the more time you were playing.

Basically everytime you open a container, loot a corpse etc... , those are added to your saved game (a good reason to dispose of corpse) , and everytime this could lead into loading your save getting more and more complex for the engine leading into adding more memory leak, building up to a crash.

Having tons of mods with new contents helped to get into that situation too as usually it meant more containers, more monsters spawning, etc...

Another problem would be the doubling that could be source of crashes too, explained there

There was an utility, Wrye Mash, that allowed you to "clean" your saved game, by removing those containers, spawned monsters from it and repairing those doubling
http://wryemusings.com/Wrye Mash.html

[puke]

no, probably the skill minimums based on that message.  You can join both.

There is such a quest at the top of the Fighters Guild, but it would be obvious to you if you had done that. 

If you are planning to only play through once and do as much as possible, I would advise you to join the Thieves guild before finishing the Fighters guild.  If you plan to play through again and do different quest lines, then by all means ignore the theives for now.

There are some unofficial patch type mods, and those do help some things.  All the graphics enhancements and such, you're sort of rolling the dice with those.

I find that all these "texture enhancement" mods in various games just throw GPU memory to the wind.  I have a beefcake graphics card, but even still it can choke at all the crap modders want to throw at it.  Floris Mod Pack, I'm looking at YOU.

I was very refreshed when I saw the KSP developers actually REDUCE the texture fidelity in their last update, and performance soared as a result.

OTOH, MW is fairly old and can stand a bit of texture updating.. so.. pick your poison and take your chances I guess.

[PanH]

no, probably the skill minimums based on that message.  You can join both.

There is such a quest at the top of the Fighters Guild, but it would be obvious to you if you had done that. 

Since she has collected debts, I'm pretty sure she did the quest. It's one of the first quests (fourth from Eydis). Having 30 in agility and personality is the base for everyone, so there's no real cap for joining the thieves guild. The text is misleading.

[Sappho]

Which quest are you talking about exactly? I haven't advanced very far in the fighters guild. I've recovered a few different items, all without killing anyone. One of them was some money from the lady in the strip club in whatever that city is. Is that the one?

Bleh, I'm terrible with names, and this game relies so heavily on them! I should study them.

I'll have to load up the game again tonight and check my stats. I'm not sure if any of them are below 30 for any reason.

[puke]

No, those incompatible quests are higher up.  I dont want to spoil the quest line, but this thread will spoil it and breaks it down in detail:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/913818-/62119360

Several people go over different options for completing the conflicting quest lines, but I think it's spoilerey enough just knowing that there are conflicting quest lines. 

save early, save often, and have fun figuring out your own solutions.

One thing I forgot about is that there are also reputation minimums to join the guilds, so even if you meet the skill minimum you will need a certain reputation.  I *think* you can get theives reputation by fencing things, not totally sure.

[PanH]

The aforementioned quest is relatively early on. It's Coded Book, and is the fourth quest at Balmora. It's the quest right before getting the debt from the strip club (house of delights or something like that) so you did it.

[Sappho]

Aha. Yes, I remember getting the code book. Damn. Oh, well, I guess I won't be joining the thieves' guild!

It might be nice if they made it a little more obvious that that quest ruins your reputation with the thieves though. I mean, I wouldn't have guessed that it interfered at all.

[puke]

Thats only the first split though, right?  But I thought there were some options to recover after having done that.

I guess it is all laid out here:  http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Code_Book#Notes (spoilers abound)

There is one dude who will let you into the guild without most of the requirements (different people are more or less strict), but maybe the reputation hit is enough to even hose that up?  I'm not sure.

[Teneb]

Aha. Yes, I remember getting the code book. Damn. Oh, well, I guess I won't be joining the thieves' guild!

It might be nice if they made it a little more obvious that that quest ruins your reputation with the thieves though. I mean, I wouldn't have guessed that it interfered at all.

The quest is a tad different if you are in the thieves' guild. There is some foreshadowing, but it would indeed be nice if there was some hint it made it impossible to join.

Regarding the other quest that makes the thieves mad at you:

Spoiler: Minor spoiler, but you may not want to read it (click to show/hide)

There are two "endings" to the fighter's guild quest lines. One of them, which you get at Vivec, makes them mad. The other, at Ald'Ruhn, does not.

[Sappho]

There's one thing that's bugging me. It's not unique to Morrowind, but I'm really noticing it in this game. If I enter a room containing people who don't like me, because they're criminals or opposing factions or whatever, they just charge me and start trying to kill me instantly. Never a "who are you?" or "what are you doing here?" or "say, do you happen to be a member of that faction we hate?" It's not like I'm wearing a sign with my personal information on it. Just standard armor that anyone might wear. I can see that at certain rare times, criminals might have a policy of killing anyone who enters their headquarters, but that can't be true 100% of the time. Sometimes they just know who I am. They all scream things like "You shall pay!" and are on top of me with sharp things before I even realize what's happening.

Does this ever improve in later games? Does there ever come a point where you're not instantly rushed every time you walk into a "hostile" area? Where you at least get a warning or a chance to identify yourself first? Maybe a chance to talk your way out of being slaughtered?

[MorleyDev]

Does this ever improve in later games? Does there ever come a point where you're not instantly rushed every time you walk into a "hostile" area? Where you at least get a warning or a chance to identify yourself first? Maybe a chance to talk your way out of being slaughtered?

Not really, outside scripted events. The closest you get is in Skyrim, Bandits at camps will only attack you if you get too close and will shout threats at you and bash their shield first. If you just walk away, you don't get attacked.

[Darkmere]

Does this ever improve in later games? Does there ever come a point where you're not instantly rushed every time you walk into a "hostile" area? Where you at least get a warning or a chance to identify yourself first? Maybe a chance to talk your way out of being slaughtered?

Haha. At least in New Vegas map areas were pretty well established territories and you know basically where to be if you needed friends or wanted to kill enemies. But the AI always knows you. My favorite was: I ran across a firefight in no man's land, so I crouched behind a hill and sniped one of the guys on the losing side. His buddy knew that, despite them being in a firefight and bullets everywhere AND despite me being behind a bush on the next hill, that it was clearly me who was responsible. He then telepathically warned everyone else miles away in his own faction in the 3 seconds before he died.

In short, Bethesda isn't that great for NPC interactions. Ever.