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New Game

3 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: March 19, 2014, 05:27:58 pm

[Patrick Hunt]

"It's more relevant to you then Densi, once my work is done you get a copy but be very clear on this. You do not share that information with anybody but Densi without my permission and only with him if you can not contact me.

My family died because somebody was loose lipped and I will not allow that to happen to anybody who trusted me and joint us. I will shoot you dead if you risk the lives of those men or there families.

[GreatWyrmGold]

(Note, GWG, I am taking you smacking him as an actual action, along with whatever else you do this turn)

Neat.

"Explain to me how our task is any different from terrorists? We have a goal in mind against a specific target that we want to destroy. We're doing it through secrecy. We're government sponsored terrorist. If we weren't we wouldn't been doing it in secret."

"Are undercover cops also terrorists, then? Or spies? Or the CIA, are they all domestic terrorists?"

"I can do it faster then you for a simple reason, I'm looking for specific things but if I then tell you what I'm looking for what purpose does it serve? Your going to agree with me because I've told you to look for things I know are there and left out the rest."

"I believe that we have a bit more knowledge about what is required for employees in our particular fields than you. You do not know everything. You know a few things...and believe it or not, the rest of us know things relevant to your field too! What do you lose by asking us?"

"Oversight only works if it is done without involving the person being observed."

"Oversight with the advice of the overseen is better than no oversight. And believe it or not, we can in fact do things without taking a muti-hour meeting."

"I have no problem with sharing all my information with Densi, having one person fully aware of my activities makes complete sense with being a huge security risk. Having 5 people fully aware on the other hand makes the risk 5x larger which is my chief concern."

"We already all know the location of our base and the identities of the Directors. How would any information you have be more damaging to have our enemies discover than that?"

"If I am captured for instance I should not be able to destroy all of you if I am broken."

"Wrong. You could identify each and every one of us by name and face, tell them where our base is, tell them how to access the computers. That's a hell of a lot more damaging than the names of our employees or whatever you're paranoid about hiding."

I trust you to do your job, but I also know that even a professional can make mistakes.  I've seen it happen in hospitals, and hiring is no different.  That is the only reason I ask for the files to be available for purview.  I doubt that we will take the time to look over all of the files, but having that option will hopefully allow someone to catch the rare mistakes you might make.

"Well-stated."

"Or for the person slipping into your room while your away to gain access to a massive amount of highly sensitive information. Enough to do massive harm to a large number of people and to destroy us as well as the families of every single person working with us. My own family was killed because I am a police officer."

"And if you were captured, all of our families could be killed because you know who we are."

"So I'll offer a compromise, one of you and only one of you will receive a full report on everything I'm doing complete with all relevant information for you to check minus the full names of those people. 5 full copies of sensitive information is 5 chances for somebody to steal it and destroy all of us."

"Use electronic media not connected to outside networks and not leaving the base. Or, you know, make one or two copies and let us read them in turn. With as many employees as you seem intent on hiring, I'm sure we could divide the files up."

"My family died because somebody was loose lipped and I will not allow that to happen to anybody who trusted me and joint us. I will shoot you dead if you risk the lives of those men or there families."

"Then you had better never be captured, because you know the identities of every one of the Directors."

[Patrick Hunt]

"I argued against knowing everybody's identities but was over ruled. Apparently the government doesn't care about security procedures.

As for Spies and CIA and undercover Cops? Yes. To the people they work against they are terrorist and to criminals that is exactly what we will be. Your going to have to wrap your head around that. To our side we are just an agency doing it's job. To our enemies we are terrorists. Get used to it.

As for oversight. I've made an offer accept it or don't I really don't care. Either the doc knows or none of you do.


As for how it could be more damaging? Thats simple. I can't forget information I already know and neither can you. That risk can not be removed I can however protect all those future subordinates from facing the same risks.

The names are exactly what I'm hiding, if they get all of us those people who's names you can not give away can continue our work. They might even be able to rescue us but if they're compromised then they can do nothing.
If I die I will have somebody to replace me, if one of you dies I will have somebody to replace you. If we all die we can be replaced. As long as some of those subordinates survive the organization will survive. That is whats important.


Make your choice, the doctor alone or none of you.

[4maskwolf]

At this point, the doctor walks out of the room.

[Playergamer]

*clap clap clap* BRAVO! BRAVO!

[GreatWyrmGold]

*clap clap clap* BRAVO! BRAVO!

You ain't seen nothing yet.

"I argued against knowing everybody's identities but was over ruled. Apparently the government doesn't care about security procedures."

"Not knowing the identities of who we work with is sufficient to push us dangerously close to becoming the kind of conspiracy tin-hats talk about. Even as it is, I'm concerned by the level of secrecy."

"As for Spies and CIA and undercover Cops? Yes. To the people they work against they are terrorist and to criminals that is exactly what we will be."

"Would this be a bad time to point out that one of those groups operate like Al Queda and the like? They know their coworkers' names, share data, have oversight, and basically act like every other governmental agency. Why should we not do so?"

"As for oversight. I've made an offer accept it or don't I really don't care. Either the doc knows or none of you do."

"Unacceptable, especially given your inability to provide a watertight justification for your paranoia."

"As for how it could be more damaging? Thats simple. I can't forget information I already know and neither can you. That risk can not be removed I can however protect all those future subordinates from facing the same risks. The names are exactly what I'm hiding, if they get all of us those people who's names you can not give away can continue our work. They might even be able to rescue us but if they're compromised then they can do nothing.
If I die I will have somebody to replace me, if one of you dies I will have somebody to replace you. If we all die we can be replaced. As long as some of those subordinates survive the organization will survive. That is whats important."

"And how will you keep their names safe, since they will know where our base is no matter which of us they capture?"

"Make your choice, the doctor alone or none of you."

Grab this fool and drag him so our noses are about an inch apart.
"NEITHER. Get this through your thick skull, you imbecile."
Rap his skull to emphasize my point.
"This is NOT your organization. You are NOT our boss, our CO. You are a Director, on the same level as the rest of us. You do NOT get to make ultimatums, you damn civilian. You might have been the big fish in your old pond, but here we're all the same rank. You do NOT deliver orders to us, HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR?"
((I can honestly say I didn't expect this use of my hand-to-hand combat skill to come up.))

[4maskwolf]

((my bet is on a week.  Anyone else?))

[TCM]

Postpone my shopping for a little bit. Stay at the compound to make sure things don't get too out of hand.

[Patrick Hunt]

Corran stairs at him calmly for a moment.

"Are you finished? Because you can keep this up all day I made an offer to the doctor and he agreed, he will provide oversight and if he decides it is required he will call a meeting and the two of us will fill you in.

Until a time comes that it is required you do not need to know, he is perfectly capable of dealing with it and unlike you doesn't see the need to resort to violence if he doesn't get his way. Which is another reason I'm not telling you. Why should I trust you to control what happens with information that as time passes will control the fate of hundreds and thousands of wifes and children when you can't even control your own temper?
And just to point out the obvious, your telling me off for offering a compromise by ordering me not to give orders?


Maybe once I see a reason I should trust you I will share the information, until then the doctor will provide oversight and the rest of you will be given the information on an as needed basis. You do not work with people by making demands you do it by making compromises. I've made a compromise.
Until then thats all I'm offering, and I'm saddened that the lives of the families of people willing to fight and die for us mean so little to you.


Now if you will kindly release me I will be meeting with several important people shortly and unless you want to alienate the law enforcement in this town it would be best they not see you threatening me.

(( This is quite funny, I'm being ordered not to give orders by a man who's effectively just said that the safety of our mens families is not important. I wish I was recording this so I can show it to the men I recruit. It would be so funny to see how they react. ))

[GreatWyrmGold]

"I will give you a math lesson. Is two more than half of six? No? Huh. Maybe the two of you don't form a majority. Maybe you should be consulting with people other than each other before delivering ultimatums. And I have no inhibition against using physical means to make my point if all else fails.

"You need a reason to trust me with the information? The governor trusted me enough to make me a Director. And no, you have NOT made a compromise. A compromise at least tries to give both sides what they want.

"And, finally, why are you so unwilling to share the names of your soldiers with us? Are you unaware that if they caught one of us, our whole organization would be doomed regardless of if they personally once heard the name of soldiers?"

[Patrick Hunt]

"If they catch one of us they can get the rest of us but I will known who is in the base when they hit. Meaning I will know who is NOT. I can give them names of people they already have without compromising those beyond the base and I am the only one I know for certain will not be broken. Because I have nothing to lose. You all have families they can use to make you talk I do not. Torture and Death will not make me betray the men and women who put there lives at risk for me and that is all they can do to me.

In essence, even if they wipe out us and the base some segment of us lives on. If I can save even 1 man then I will count it as a success and I would hope you would support measures to protect the people brave enough to fight us.

The rest of you are free to vote, you have 2 votes for my compromise and it is a compromise. You want oversight, I'm offering you oversight. The only difference is the information goes to 1 of you not 5 and that 1 will involve the rest if it is needed.


I am sorry, but my family died because somebody I trusted betrayed me. I will not allow that to happen again. I will die for you or any other man or women in this organization before I surrender information to harm any of you. But to give every one of you the ability to get thousands of innocent people killed is something I will not do.

[4maskwolf]

((If someone wants to point it out, technically I never voted))

[Patrick Hunt]

(( Well you agreed but no matter, if you want to vote no then you can. I'll just leave the organization and set up on my own if people can't accept a compromise. ))

[4maskwolf]

((I was saying that I didn't technically cast a vote, whether or not I actually agreed.  I wanted to see what would happen if someone tried to say that in character))

[GreatWyrmGold]

"If they catch one of us they can get the rest of us but I will known who is in the base when they hit. Meaning I will know who is NOT. I can give them names of people they already have without compromising those beyond the base."

"The base...where we store essentially all our data? Including payrolls and such?"

"In essence, even if they wipe out us and the base some segment of us lives on. If I can save even 1 man then I will count it as a success and I would hope you would support measures to protect the people brave enough to fight us."

"Get this into your head. We are not the first, last, and only line of defense. We are not a military. We are an experiment, an auxiliary measure. If we get wiped out to a single man, we are a failure and will be shut down. If even a single director gets captured, somehow, and the base is compromised, we are a failure and will be shut down."
Release him.
"We are not humanity's last hope. We are a politician's latest idea. Nothing less, but nothing more. We are not a ragtag bunch of misfits who will get to destroy the Big Evil Conspiracy. We are not the government's dumping ground for people it wants to hide, used to solve problems legitimate agents can't. We are not a hastily-thrown-together organization formed as the last-ditch response to an imminent threat. Get those ideas out of your head. If we fail, we fail."

"The rest of you are free to vote, you have 2 votes for my compromise and it is a compromise. You want oversight, I'm offering you oversight. The only difference is the information goes to 1 of you not 5 and that 1 will involve the rest if it is needed."

"Before you bring the others, I'd like to hear your explanation of one thing. This will involve some back-and-forth, so get comfortable."
"Tell me how this works out. How does one of us get captured by our enemies, and then they extract everything they know--including details that were mentioned to them once, that they could not tell a friend if asked--how does our organization not fall?"

(( Well you agreed ))

((I never voted))

((I know who I'm betting on.
The problem with your compromise is that it's kinda dumb. If one person thinks our documents should be stored in a nearby lake and another thinks we should store them inside, is the best compromise to leave them out on the lawn? No, there's no real reason to do that except that it could make things slightly harder for our enemies to find.))