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[webadict]

I've seen a mafia game where a mafia-ally player is told they're town before the game starts, but learns their true alignment during N1.

I would consider passive alignment changes like this pretty bastard-y though.

That's because it is bastardy. Anytime the moderator lies to you through non-mechanically-induced methods would be at least semi-bastard. It's actually debatable if Millers or Framers count as bastard mechanics in some places, since it does create a lie, but they are created by game mechanics, so, eh?

I'd say self-alignment switching is a harder mechanic to balance because you will probably see a Townie jump ship if the Town is losing.

I have seen the Amnesiac role, which has a chance to make you non-Town, but I still think it's semi-bastard.

[ToonyMan]

Amnesaic power roles can be neat.

For example, an amnesiac cop who thinks they're a vanilla townie until a specific day or night.

We should have a game where most players are amnesiac power roles and there's a couple psychiatrists that can "cure" them at night.

[notquitethere]

We should have a game where most players are amnesiac power roles and there's a couple psychiatrists that can "cure" them at night.

You could combine the ideas and have one player be a repressed serial killer who remembers their evil alignment when "cured".

[TricMagic]

Of note I'd like to try a full game later on. I can incorporate some of these ideas.

[Vector]

We should have a game where most players are amnesiac power roles and there's a couple psychiatrists that can "cure" them at night.

You could combine the ideas and have one player be a repressed serial killer who remembers their evil alignment when "cured".

This is interesting, but curing players will have a random effect because no one knows what the hidden aspect is. So this unlocking of power roles will be totally decoupled from the day game.

[Nirur Torir]

We should have a game where most players are amnesiac power roles and there's a couple psychiatrists that can "cure" them at night.

You could combine the ideas and have one player be a repressed serial killer who remembers their evil alignment when "cured".

Repressed memories, or fake memories?
Go full ham and add a scum ally therapist who creates the scum team one night at a time, starting N0.

[Vector]

They don't know that they're scum-sided, right? They just know that they're activating people's roles. And if someone activates THEM they become a vanilla mafia ally?

That could be kind of fun. But really frigging hard to balance. Maybe every therapist gets a maximum of 2 activations, or whatever.

[Nirur Torir]

I was thinking they know it, and are the single person creating the problem in the game.
The balance might be too lopsided though. Either they get to create a perfect team from picking at the towncore and best players, or they get killed early and leave an understaffed scum team.

[Vector]

I mean, I guess the reason why I don't like it is that it's basically cult with different flavor.

[webadict]

Cults are terrible to balance, but a necessary aspect of the alignment metagame.

[Mephansteras]

I've been pondering ways to make cults better. One-shots aren't too bad, but I'd like to find a way to make other types a bit less snowbally. Maybe a Mark one night and convert the next would help? It'd dramatically reduce the number of converts they get a day.

[ToonyMan]

I've been pondering ways to make cults better. One-shots aren't too bad, but I'd like to find a way to make other types a bit less snowbally. Maybe a Mark one night and convert the next would help? It'd dramatically reduce the number of converts they get a day.

A full cult team that needs to target a player twice in a row to convert them? Would that player be aware the cult is trying to convert them the first night?

[webadict]

I've been pondering ways to make cults better. One-shots aren't too bad, but I'd like to find a way to make other types a bit less snowbally. Maybe a Mark one night and convert the next would help? It'd dramatically reduce the number of converts they get a day.

Cults have several issues that can't be fixed easily. Traditional Cults are balanced by having an extremely weak early game. Typically, Cults start with one Cult Leader. These Cult Leaders can be nerfed by causing the deaths of all Cultists when they die, or by reducing the number of conversions available. Additionally, these Cultists are typically reduced to vanilla roles. The biggest issue with a Cult is that they are necessarily twice as powerful as the Mafia, because they basically get a doublekill each Night, removing a Town player AND gaining a Cult member. So, rule of thumb, any game where a doublekill Mafia is balanced, a Cult is balanced.

I have seen Death Cults where the Cult Leaders can convert through their own death. Usually this is a Serial Killer subtype, but the Cult Leader dies and converts a new Cult Leader, and the cycle continues until the Cult Leader dies. It's fairly balanced, but it makes the game a bit more tedious.

[Skynet]

I've been thinking about a Cult that converts people, but doesn't change their wincon.

In other words, Cultists (individuals converted by the Cult Leader) count as being Cult for the purposes of the Cult Leader winning, but the Cultists don't win with the Cult Leader (and are thus anti-Cult). Obviously, this means the Cultists don't know who the Cult Leader is, and there is no Cult quicktopic as well (because then Cultists would use this quicktopic to coordinate against their Cult Leader).

Obviously, Cultists may decide to roleclaim upon learning of their role, thereby ruling themselves out as the Cult Leader. Which may mean the Cult Leader may also claim to be a Cultist as well, and hopefully stay under the radar of the Town...

[Vector]

^ I find that kinda interesting, although it's a little bit like being an arsonist?