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[IronyOwl]

I assume Cado was referencing/inspired by Battle for Wesnoth. I'm not sure the elves in that game are actually overpowered, but on paper they look awfully generous.

If your brought into a lot of melee combat, you don't have much chance. And you can't win if you hide in the trees all day.

I dunno, archers aren't terrible in melee, and on their turn they can attack at little or no risk on most melee heavies.

Fair enough about the trees, but aside from grassland it probably is the most common terrain type; I'm guessing you can come reasonably close.

[RangerCado]

I assume Cado was referencing/inspired by Battle for Wesnoth. I'm not sure the elves in that game are actually overpowered, but on paper they look awfully generous.

If your brought into a lot of melee combat, you don't have much chance. And you can't win if you hide in the trees all day.

I dunno, archers aren't terrible in melee, and on their turn they can attack at little or no risk on most melee heavies.

Fair enough about the trees, but aside from grassland it probably is the most common terrain type; I'm guessing you can come reasonably close.

If you face the orcs however, your ranged attacks will be facing poison daggers, while their melee forces tear your troops apart, even in the forests.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I think the elven benefit there is strategic, while the orcs enter the forest and are not native, having no special skills there, the elves can hide and pick their battles. An overwhelming number of elves can strike the smallest group of orcs by surprise during the daytime, reducing the orcish army's numbers slowly. Perhaps the orcs decide to burn down the forest, that's fine, but it's not going to happen overnight. Most forests are not like the hyper-matchbox managed forests in California.

Secondly, orcs aren't known for their missile skills. They're face-to-face smashers.

Take the elves out of the forest and make the battle at night in melee range, sure I can see the orcs having the advantage.

And of course the orcs have a more militant culture and there are a whole lot more of them. I don't see why an orcish army vs. an elven army wouldn't outnumber the elves by 10:1. The elves need that stealth to pick their battles. If they can't the orcs simply demolish them.

So it turns into this: orcs run wild everywhere except where someone else has an exceptional advantage AND is militarized enough to take advantage of it.

Orcs attacking a mountain valley or pass defended by dwarves - I don't see the orcs winning even with 10:1 numbers simply because the dwarven structures will funnel them into fights where it's 1 orc to 4 dwarves and the dwarves are behind fortifications. Much less all the orcs slain by traps, rockfalls, etc. But stick 100 dwarves out on an unfamiliar plain with 1000 orcs (again, orcs are far more fecund than dwarves), and the dwarves get slaughtered.

Orcs vs. humans I'd say would probably be 3 humans per 10 orcs. But the humans again need terrain or some other exceptional advantage, because roughly 3:1 numbers favoring the orcs means the humans are dead meat.

It's really about what numbers you can bring (that is, what army can your civilization produce and support in a war theater) and what force multipliers you can include. Orcs excel at fielding a huge army but generally employ few force multipliers.

[IronyOwl]

If you face the orcs however, your ranged attacks will be facing poison daggers, while their melee forces tear your troops apart, even in the forests.

Tried a bit of this. Assassins were as deliciously powerful as I remember, and the "er how do I attack this?" was actually a factor. That said, archers are still better than they are in melee.

I did get some orc smash going on, especially at night, but in forests the elves are such dodge monkeys that it usually didn't matter. I was also reminded that I wasn't using healers right; with evasion like that, those 4 hp/turn would let a line of archers- not even actual melee troops, archers- to hold the line for a long, long while.

All that said, mountains were actually way more common than forests that time, and it didn't feel like I was smashing the AI any harder than usual.

Orcs attacking a mountain valley or pass defended by dwarves - I don't see the orcs winning even with 10:1 numbers simply because the dwarven structures will funnel them into fights where it's 1 orc to 4 dwarves and the dwarves are behind fortifications. Much less all the orcs slain by traps, rockfalls, etc. But stick 100 dwarves out on an unfamiliar plain with 1000 orcs (again, orcs are far more fecund than dwarves), and the dwarves get slaughtered.

In Wesnoth, trying to hold mountains against orcs isn't nearly as wise as it sounds. Dwarves are about as well-suited for it as anyone else, though.

I don't see why an orcish army vs. an elven army wouldn't outnumber the elves by 10:1.

Orcs attacking a mountain valley or pass defended by dwarves - I don't see the orcs winning even with 10:1 numbers

Orcs vs. humans I'd say would probably be 3 humans per 10 orcs.

You racist.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Never having played, I'm betting that the short-lived humans get a bonus to reproduction.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

OH I didn't know you guys were talking about a specific game. I was just talking about how orcs / elves / dwarves / etc are handled most of the time in general.

Orcs = high population, Elves/Dwarves = low population isn't all that racist of an observation. It's like saying Orcs see better at night than Humans do, or that a properly trained and motivated cheetah would win a 100-meter sprint vs. a properly trained and motivated aardvark. Might as well complain when someone says Coca Cola is sweeter than carrots.

[GreatWyrmGold]

They were complaining about the game balance of this one game.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Well don't I feel like a dope!

But I heard Wesnoth was a good game. Is it good despite all this?

[Armok]

(is anyone going to ever actually suggest a character thats not just a fantasy stereotype?)

[Remuthra]

(Hey, mine wasn't a fantasy stereotype!)

[Armok]

(it kinda was. Really, anything non-stereotypical would have to be a lot longer.)

[Remuthra]

(Oh, you want backstory? Hold on a moment. Also, choose first or third person.)

[Armok]

(not specifically, just in general more material to work with than two words and 3 silly numbers, but it would be nice. Also, I hate elves you REALLY should have figured.)

[TCM]

(is anyone going to ever actually suggest a character thats not just a fantasy stereotype?)

Yo, I was just about to get on that.

Patrick Terrance, A.K.A. "Petey"
Living in an Urban metropolitan area on a poor island country, Patrick was brought up in the slums, surrounded by the perpetual cycle chaos and violence. Seeing the effect of the environment on his friends and family, Patrick vows to graduate High School, enter University, and become an established person with a future ahead of him. He's constantly busy, either studying for school or working various jobs to help pay for his family's home and rent. He's a prolific reader, and always keeps a spare copy of Machiavelli's The Prince  somewhere nearby. He owns two firearms, a revolver that he keeps in his pants or inside his jacket that he bought in a back-alley, and an AK47 under his bed at home, given to the family by a distant relative. He's used his weapons to threaten criminals before, but has never had to fire them, which is the way he would like to keep things.

I can put in more details if necessary.

[Remuthra]

(Yeah, that makes sense. Alright, let me elaborate.)

You are Joe Bridger, new initiate in the radical shadow organization known as the Shade's Hand. You have recently, under the instruction of your order, emigrated your home in Boston to delve into the wastes of Siberia. Upon completing your rite of passage, you hope to learn the forbidden secrets of the cult, and eventually earn their trust and admiration. What they know not is that you are indeed also a spy for a rival organization known as the Commune of the Sun, a group committed to stopping the acts of the Shade's Hand. You must play a dangerous game, and who can say where your true loyalties lie?

This better?