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[Tiruin]

EBWOP: Just realized my math error.

Next: Role beliefs. Me backing up my guess on the roles from data before. Look at the # of Ts for thoughts instead.

TTTHK confirmed. + MG = 6

KKK for this perfect scenario to occur; me and Toony are vigilantes.

Spoiler: 1st scenario; TTT (click to show/hide)

TTTHKKKP from claims; 9/13. Hidden SK.

Elephant Parade
Tiruin [E] - Claimed Vig
Superblackcat [E]
+!!scientist!!+ - Claimed Jailkeeper
makeinu [E]
ToonyMan [E] - Claimed Vig
NativeForeigner

We have 4 people left.
Likely plausible, maybe. BUT. This setup has

TTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT, Serial Killer

Spoiler: 2nd Scenario; TTTT (click to show/hide)

TTTTHKKKP from claims; 10/13. One unclaimed Vanilla.
Same setup as the above, however this lacks a SK.

Elephant Parade
Tiruin [E] - Claimed Vig
Superblackcat [E]
+!!scientist!!+ - Claimed Jailkeeper
makeinu [E]
ToonyMan [E] - Claimed Vig
NativeForeigner

TTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT (Roleblock, Ninja Kill, Strongman Kill)

Edited the second scenario. I was thinking all else but to compare the fraction to the list, and not the possibility of unclaimed individuals in the way. Must stop thinking about algebra projects. Fixed the above.

And a TTTTT scenario is... probable, excuse that error-but that means there's an exact among the list, a bus-driver exists, and there are 2 unclaimed vanilla townies. Which means least probable.

[Elephant Parade]

@Tiruin: Hmm. The SK one seems unlikely, since that would mean that the SK has been hiding for two nights. It's possible, though.

I'd say the second one is more likely. Both of your claims seem a tiny bit off to me; scientist's claim is unverifiable, and yours would require either the Mafia not performing a kill or both you and the Mafia selecting the same target.

A massclaim seems like an okay idea, I guess. I don't have much mafia experience, so I'm not sure how useful it would be. Thinking about the games I've read, I think a massclaim would be an okay idea. After all, a few people have already claimed; also, a massclaim would help figure out which setup this is.

I have a bit of homework left, and then I'm going to sleep. This homework takes place on my computer, so I might be able to respond, but don't bet on it.

[Tiruin]

...So..claim?

I won't be here for the entirety of my Wednesday. Your claim would help.

...
..
You're voting Toony for something he already answered? Pertaining to the first question, not the second, anyways.

[Elephant Parade]

...So..claim?

I won't be here for the entirety of my Wednesday. Your claim would help.

...
..
You're voting Toony for something he already answered? Pertaining to the first question, not the second, anyways.

Claim? Sure. Sadly, I am merely a Vanilla Townie. I would have enjoyed playing a power role, but it seems that this is not the game in which I will.

Urg. Did he answer that question? I must have missed that. Also, I asked two questions? What? I look, but I only see one.


...I'm too tired to play Mafia.

[makeinu]

Tiruin:

I have neither the time nor the energy today to quote your posts and keep my thoughts at all straight, so I will attempt to just do the latter.

First, setup.

Your entire analysis is wrong. There are, at most, seven Town power roles.

Spoiler: The moderator randomly chooses 7 numbers from 1-100, repeating permitted. (click to show/hide)

 Then, each number is turned into a letter as follows:

    1-50 = T (Townie. This actually directly influences scum powerroles.)
    51-65 = I (Investigation)
    66-75 = P (Protection)
    76-85 = H (Hiding)
    86-95 = K (Killing)
    96-100 = R (Flavour Cop)

The mod then notes how many of each letter is generated.

Once the powerroles for town and the scum have been determined, add a number of Vanilla Townies to equal 13 players.

Okay. So, if all the power role claims are correct, in addition to Caz's flip as Vengeful, here's the only possible setup:

PHKKK +
TT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT +
6 Vanilla Townies

That assumes two things: role-claims as above plus role reveals and no further hidden power roles. No one has claimed Tracker or Role Cop, so either they don't exist, or they haven't seen anything useful. If all this is accurate, the Bus Driver is guaranteed to exist. It's possible they acted last night, but that leaves the question of why only one kill.


I was going to go all crazy analysis on the possible sequence of events on Night 1 and Night 2, but damned if I can afford to stay up that late.

Night 2, you claimed to kill Hapah. +!!scientist!!+ claims to have blocked you, making that kill impossible. Except, there's three ways that's possible:

1) JOAT Strongman kill,
2) SK: "If there is a Serial Killer, it chooses pregame between 1-Shot Bulletproof or Ninja AND Strongman kills as its extra ability. ", or
3) Bus Driver swapped you for another.

This is, assuming all current role claims are honest and accurate. Additional power role claims change the entire dynamic, but I'm going to argue that, whatever else is revealed, there isn't an SK. There haven't been enough deaths. No way is it probable that the same targets were chosen by three power roles each twice in a row. Hard enough to believe the coincidence of two doing that.

Note: SBC's been pretty lurky overall, esp. of late. Could be an SK too lazy to kill or trying to stay under the radar until the numbers are low enough to swoop in and try for the win. Bad play, if so, that's not how an SK wins. Not with the death record to date.

Back. You claim Vigilante, and lay out your case for why you killed Hapah.

I have two problems with that role-claim.

One, that case against Hapah/UI was weak. Everyone looks suspicious after a townie lynch, but I read your post full of links the first time, and again, and I still don't see where your case adds up. UI had a case against Caz and made it fairly logically to my eye. So did I. So did others, except for TDS, whatever that play was trying to accomplish. Yet, you don't point fingers at the others, you didn't play Judge Judy and executioner on any of the others, just Hapah.

Two, you claim zombie urist's death was at your hand N1, and you make no case for that at all! Worse, zu was actively defending Caz at the end of D1, as ToonyMan pointed out when he mentioned that zu was "the obvious scum kill" that night. He reiterated that when this assertion was questioned.

Yet, despite that, despite Caz's post-lynch Town-flip and Vengeful action, you still ordered zu's death.

So, here's my take.

1) Two claimed night kills, both flipped Town, one with a weak case, the other with no case at all.
2) A N2 claimed kill that is counter-claimed blocked, said block avoided by two available scum powers if our setup is accurate (2T JK9++, mafia JOAT and Bus Driver).
3) Same N2 night kill block could have been avoided by you as SK Ninja/Strongman, which would exist if your Vigilante claim is a fabrication (3T JK9++, mafia JOAT and SK).

Every way I see it, your role-claim looks either false or weak, at best. And if it's not false, then, dammit Tiruin, why?

This is what I hate about Vigilantes in these games. Goddamn loose cannons, killing at random without any real evidence, and serving not only to further the scum win, but also providing damn good cover for their night actions.

Ya know, for this, I will indulge one quote:

Likelier scenario: one scum and three Town die N1. Ratio is 6:2:1, Town/scum/SK.

Repeat D2/N2. 3:1:1.

Mislynch D3 means D4 dawns with the Town losing.

And that's not all that unlikely a scenario. That is why I harped at you over what I saw as a possible mental slip regarding an SK. That is why I'm concerned that we do have a Vig.

This is also taking into account that the vig survives two days of shenanigans all while being hilariously inaccurate. I agree vig shouldn't shoot if he's just going to flip a coin, but if we lynch right today there's a better chance of hitting scum, especially when we consider the votes etc etc. Lynching is hardly more accurate, especially in the beginning.

Emphasis in the Caz quote is mine. If you're a vig, you're that vig. If you're not, you're scum of one variety or another.


Vanilla claims are impossible to disprove in this setting, shy of a Tracker following a killer. Even the Role Cop only gets back Vanilla from a mafia goon.

[Tiruin]

Okay. So, if all the power role claims are correct, in addition to Caz's flip as Vengeful, here's the only possible setup

...
...
There are 3 confirmed flipped vanilla townies.

Night 2, you claimed to kill Hapah. +!!scientist!!+ claims to have blocked you, making that kill impossible. Except, there's three ways that's possible:

1) JOAT Strongman kill,
2) SK: "If there is a Serial Killer, it chooses pregame between 1-Shot Bulletproof or Ninja AND Strongman kills as its extra ability. ", or
3) Bus Driver swapped you for another.

I see you fail to argue more parts, like:
> Bus Driver swapped scientist

    Commuting
    Hiding
    Bus Driving
    Jailkeeping / Roleblocking
    Protecting
    Killing
    Investigating

Why do you ignore that variable? That's my arguement. What you're trying to imply is something totally different.

What are you trying to imply?

One, that case against Hapah/UI was weak. Everyone looks suspicious after a townie lynch, but I read your post full of links the first time, and again, and I still don't see where your case adds up. UI had a case against Caz and made it fairly logically to my eye. So did I. So did others, except for TDS, whatever that play was trying to accomplish. Yet, you don't point fingers at the others, you didn't play Judge Judy and executioner on any of the others, just Hapah.

@Purple: Subtle undermining. That was not where my basis started. It started from start to end, and not backwards.Where is the weakpoint? I don't see you showing me. Generalizing again, are we?

Fairly logical, yes-any conformed case is logical--did you see why I voted Hapah? You surely aren't attacking me on it.
The time. One standing reason behind such. I can in no ways explain how nobody caught onto that. So I posed it out. You seem to totally skip it despite noting the address to you, about a paragraph after. A-
*sees orange part*
So WTF are you trying to say?! You saw it in the first place, and feigned ignorance, then somehow summarized by case as shifting to Hapah.
You didn't say anything about what I said back there. I don't point fingers because I saw the discrepancy in Hapah--or better yet, UI's case!
The hell makeinu. I can't understand what you're getting at here. You seem to be intentionally missing my point. EXPLAIN.

Two, you claim zombie urist's death was at your hand N1, and you make no case for that at all! Worse, zu was actively defending Caz at the end of D1, as ToonyMan pointed out when he mentioned that zu was "the obvious scum kill" that night. He reiterated that when this assertion was questioned.

...
...
Do I have to point the area where I voted ZU? And where his answers led to? Did you compare ZU's note, at day end compared to what I said?
No. You judge me as a generality, or better yet-under a stereotype that fails to focus the point. Does ToonyMan's words signify law?

I'll humor you. ZU is the obvious scum kill, really? So Persus hid behind him and I shot him, so he's dead and Persus is too--echoing your words of 'THESE PEOPLE ARE DEAD BY YOUR HANDS'. Well bloody hell these are my hands! You want my feet too? Show me exactly where ZU takes the spotlight, and scum "obviously targeted" him. Tell me where this becomes sure law. Link it. Quote it.

Every way I see it, your role-claim looks either false or weak, at best. And if it's not false, then, dammit Tiruin, why?

Why WHAT?! You want me to explain myself? I bloody did! If I didn't see this situation as damn crucial, I wouldn't have claimed and fessed up for my kills! Why, WHAT?! What else do you want me to say?

Why do people keep on attacking me like that?! 'YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE AND WEAK, AND HERE ARE EVIDENCE WHY' is the best way to say it.
NO
All I get is '[Tiruin's everything] IS WEAK/FALSE/LIES' and I get nothing backing it.

This is what I hate about Vigilantes in these games. Goddamn loose cannons, killing at random without any real evidence, and serving not only to further the scum win, but also providing damn good cover for their night actions.

Loose cannons?
Real evidence?
Serving to further scum win?
...
Of all things. Of all things I've ever heard, I've ever played-I have not seen a better ad hominem in my life. In debate. In any case.
Problem being, this stems from personal bias and thrice damn have I seen how you act when you are biased.
Fuck you makeinu. Tiruin.
You round about and attack me from all sides but a direct assault. Do you just want to drive my blood pressure up?
Get me out of this goddamned game. I'm tired of this prejudiced play and of people not listening. I expected people to look better, to scumhunt.
All I get is crap from everyone, and the rest are just being quiet.

Emphasis in the Caz quote is mine. If you're a vig, you're that vig. If you're not, you're scum of one variety or another.

No, I'm fucking stupid. You want to hear that right? I'm STUPID, makeinu! STUPID! I tire of all these attacks without reason. Reason pertaining to hard backing. You want proof? I'VE GIVEN ALL MY PROOF BACK THERE. Do I hear anyone knocking on it?
No.
I get attacked.
Just attacked.
Always attacked.
Hey, tell me. Does the Vig know who scum are? NO. Does the town know who scum are? NO. Can both guess? YES. I took it in my power to guess out in the best configuration possible, and yet I don't get attacked by that.
I get labeled.
I get persecuted.
I am attacked, and not in the Mafia definition.

Oh, and you don't even bother to give an idea on a massclaim or not! Whoopdeedoo for good sportsmanship and respect!

Indulge me with a good rope. I'll hang myself. Just seems better, a suicide.

[Tiruin]

Lastpost

ToonyMan: Summarized
> Why do you think I'm lying? And could I get your honest idea on why you think I claimed?
Same with everyone else.

[ToonyMan]

Busy today I could probably post more tonight.

Also, stop voting yourself.  I think you're lying because you're the SK now.  Elephant Parade's claim as a vanilla townie probably marks them as mafia, but I'll have to check back.  I think you claimed because you are crazy!  Do you realize the implications of claiming every single possible kill this game has had so far?  If you're the SK or mafia then you're being super ballsy, if you're a town vig you don't deserve to live anymore.

[Tiruin]

No I will vote myself. Everyone's right. I'm an idiot. Nobody cares to poke at what else I say because I'm scum. Woohoo.

Yes Toony, I'm at least glad you caught onto the hints I'm dropping that I'm the SK. Praise be to you. For a moment I doubted the title of KotM there, but I was right in two things-one that you're town, two that you got my gist.

And yes I don't deserve to live because I don't like being labeled anymore.

So kill me. I stand with you here, but details within my details-I've lied only once this entire game.

[Tiruin]

...So changing the message icon without any modifying makes it an edit.

Thank you too, forum. You do me much honor. >_>

[makeinu]

Don't do that. Don't vote for yourself. You're taking this personally, and it's not personal. It's not an attack on you, Tiruin, it's addressing what I see as short-comings and flaws in your arguments. Your self-vote is an appeal to emotion, and those never work.

Three confirmed dead Vanilla Townies tells us nothing about the setup. They are safely ignored at this point, as it's the number of Town power roles (I, P, H, K, R) that determines the makeup and strength of the scum team, and the presence/absence of a Serial Killer. There are a maximum of seven Town power roles. Any even number of Town power roles results in a Serial Killer. Any odd number (and we've a claimed/proven combined total of five) does not.

Five Town power roles gives us three mafia and no serial killer, and five Vanilla Town. Now, if we had more than five dead Vanilla Town, we'd be running into a contradiction, but we don't.

And you're right. A mafia Bus Driver could have switched +!!scientist!!+, or anyone else, with someone else, last night or the night before. That happening would not have explained how you were able to kill last night. The Bus Driver does not redirect a power, it changes the target.

Spoiler: note the bold (click to show/hide)

The Bus Driver is a role that can choose to switch two players each night. Thus, any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player targeted by the Bus Driver. The Bus Driver's night choices are only valid for that same night.

For example, suppose a Bus Driver switches John and Jack. That same night, a roleblocker tries to block John and a Goon tries to kill Jack. In the end, Jack will be roleblocked and John will be killed.

+!!scientist!!+ claims he targeted you last night. If you were targeted by the Bus Driver, someone else would have been hit by +!!scientist!!+ and his use of roleblock as Jailkeeper. If +!!scientist!!+ was targeted by the Bus Driver, his target, you, does not change. That's why I discount that as a possibility, as it's irrelevant to this hypothesis.

What I'm saying is this: if +!!scientist!!+ is not lying about his role-claim, nor his action last night, then one explanation for your kill last night was that you were the target of the Bus Driver, thus taking you out from his role-block. The other options are that you used a Strongman kill last night, which is a scum-only power in this setup, or that the mafia kill overlapped your choice. Since kills are flavor-identical in this setup, there's no way to say whether a kill is yours or the mafia's of a night, and you claim the kills as a Vigilante.

What I'm trying to imply is this: You suspect that you were tracked last night, and are trying to scum-claim Vigilante to explain being caught in a night kill before you have a chance to be fingered, since such a claim looks incredibly fishy after an incriminating "I saw what you did last night" claim.


As to your case on Hapah/UI, again.

When you mentioned that bit about people ignoring your spoilered bit, I assumed you meant something you put in spoilers today, not a previous day, and was confused by that claim. Understandably.

When you clarified, I went back and looked again. Seeing it was the case I'd previously read, I checked it again, and still did not see the strength of case you claimed. Your claim lied in, from what I can see, that UI attacked Caz for what he saw as scummy behavior, specifically that Caz was trying to vote manipulate. I'd have to go back and recreate the vote board at that exact time to see if UI's case had any merit, but I recall thinking at the time that it did. That did not in any way influence my own thinking on Caz at the time.


On your case on zu.

You simply didn't have one. You voted for him, based on him being lazy and shallow in his posts, and, I presume, because of his pushing TDS to answer a question he'd inadvertently deleted from his post and not checking that earlier on, when TDS pressed back on the question.

Spoiler: Here's the entirety of your post with your zu vote (click to show/hide)

zombie urist

thedarkstar should respond to my post. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134151.msg4871504#msg4871504

As for Tiruin, here's why he must have simply mistyped or misread: The SK does not know how many mafia members there are and the mafia do not know if there is a serial killer. If he was scum, he still could not have actually told you. We can have anywhere between 2 and 3 mafia and 0 or 1 serial killer, but the fact that one is a certain way does not make the other a certain way.

Tiruin could be the sk.

Pretty passive-aggressive speculation/focus. Care to back it up?

No.

zombie urist: If you were scum, who would you kill N1? Why?

Someone random for maximum wifom.

Elephant Parade, how much do you use WIFOM and how do you normally apply it to situations?
Perseus, if you were Cop, who would you inspect N1?
makeinu, What do you think of Vigs?
Darkstar, you really seem to hate makeinu. Its almost like Lyncher play. Why?
Tiruin and Toony, what do you think of each others Mafia ( not the game, the informed minority inside of the game ) play?

Why are you asking RVS questions so late?

Defensive post, rhetorical questions, "yes you are scum" response? This isn't the town makeinu I know, sorry.

This is super lazy.

Ah, it's hard to tell for me just now. Unvote

Why'd you unvote immediately after? Who are your top suspects?

Brevity, then.

Your lack of words. They're lying down on deeper meaning as I see it. Lacking reason. Lacking rationality. Lacking public explanation.

Who do you seriously suspect other than someone who is missing a question? Your posts lack backing. Conviction. Flippant, even.
Lax.

But to keep this short, let me quote this a fortiori.

This is super lazy.

Point taken, I believe you did notice the 'hints' that TDS has been saying here, yes? Several hints pointing to him standing on his point, which you just say 'there's something else'? I mean, I can get the obscurity but I'm staring at that post and can't see nothing else but...that.
Literally, just that.

Now, I'll admit that his insistence gave me rather a bit of pause as well, a scum-read on him, because I couldn't see what question TDS had failed to answer either. His insistence, and lack of proper follow-up, left a bad taste in my mouth.

Spoiler: my notes on zu (click to show/hide)

zombie urist: Pressed TDS pretty hard for answer to previous question. Somewhat diverse in target selection. Very brief answers. Follow-up: remarked late that TDS question was missing from post, did NOT add question back in, dropped instead. Poor follow-up on that why? Given previous multiple demands for answer. Also, took that long to notice missing question. Moderate scum.

So make me a case where +!!scientist!!+ is the better lynch target today. And it better be good, because you've laid the bodies at your own feet, and have made it clear that you'll kill at night. Which means that if you live tonight, we can expect another of your suspicions to result in a death, potentially of another townie.

But know this, if he's lynched, and flips Jailkeeper, that's proof-positive you're scum in my book.

_{Not you the person, you the role.}

[Tiruin]

 
I already said scientist is telling the truth (did you note I did it via the note of 'timing' instead of anything else?)

Also you make the wording in a very bad way. Wanna label me again on being a bad vig? Stop using words of wisdom and hhit me directly instead of attributing me to a half-baked, half-planned map. You think I didn't think my thoughts out?

Where are your words on that?

Three confirmed dead Vanilla Townies tells us nothing about the setup. They are safely ignored at this point, as it's the number of Town power roles (I, P, H, K, R) that determines the makeup and strength of the scum team, and the presence/absence of a Serial Killer. There are a maximum of seven Town power roles. Any even number of Town power roles results in a Serial Killer. Any odd number (and we've a claimed/proven combined total of five) does not.

...
Town = T, Town power role = I/P/H/K/R.
Three confirmed dead = TTT.
So that's me disputing your case :/

And it's TTT, by the way. Toony is right. I'm the SK. Woohoo!

+!!scientist!!+ claims he targeted you last night. If you were targeted by the Bus Driver, someone else would have been hit by +!!scientist!!+ and his use of roleblock as Jailkeeper. If +!!scientist!!+ was targeted by the Bus Driver, his target, you, does not change. That's why I discount that as a possibility, as it's irrelevant to this hypothesis.

The orange is my point! If I got targeted, then it would've hit anyone else, and all that will be received is '[action] successful', unless there's a thing for P roles that give them an advantage on the bus driver.

What I'm trying to imply is this: You suspect that you were tracked last night, and are trying to scum-claim Vigilante to explain being caught in a night kill before you have a chance to be fingered, since such a claim looks incredibly fishy after an incriminating "I saw what you did last night" claim.

...Ok now that's a long shot in speculation, even for you (I mean really. I did not claim up to 'defend being caught in a night kill', because the funny thing would be this: How would I know if I was caught?

*reads back*
Wait, you all thought I was mafia fakeclaiming instead?

..now I'm on a whole new level of surprise. Wow. That shallow? My dignity is hurt as well as my self-esteem, thanks makeinu for making it worse (and on the not personal thing...but really. Loose cannon?! >___> Ugh. You. Jerk.)

And you're right. A mafia Bus Driver could have switched +!!scientist!!+, or anyone else, with someone else, last night or the night before. That happening would not have explained how you were able to kill last night. The Bus Driver does not redirect a power, it changes the target.

...Yes. It changes the target. What about that?

Look up please. That's my true claim. I'm an SK who has allied herself witht he town and wishes to beat Mafia, fakeclaiming Vig in its truest fashion. Remember what I said about the SK before? Every player leaves hints to their alignment when they want to. I did.

Spoiler: Check it out! (click to show/hide)

Also what is your concern with the discussion of SK > Vig? It is a probability, and an interesting topic to speak of, given the note of SK shtuff. If you'd ask me, an SK is like a miller-vig, but blargh that. Deviating from the point:

Why the interest? What can you draw from it?

PFP - I think my net died.

Unrelated: Toaster:...Thank you.

Anyway:

As to your case on Hapah/UI, again.

When you mentioned that bit about people ignoring your spoilered bit, I assumed you meant something you put in spoilers today, not a previous day, and was confused by that claim. Understandably.

When you clarified, I went back and looked again. Seeing it was the case I'd previously read, I checked it again, and still did not see the strength of case you claimed. Your claim lied in, from what I can see, that UI attacked Caz for what he saw as scummy behavior, specifically that Caz was trying to vote manipulate. I'd have to go back and recreate the vote board at that exact time to see if UI's case had any merit, but I recall thinking at the time that it did. That did not in any way influence my own thinking on Caz at the time.

...You did not see the time shenanigans? I formatted it. I included a third-party timezone format to check.
>_>
At least I'm assured that you didn't intentionally ignore me. Whew. Thanks.

On your case on zu.

You simply didn't have one. You voted for him, based on him being lazy and shallow in his posts, and, I presume, because of his pushing TDS to answer a question he'd inadvertently deleted from his post and not checking that earlier on, when TDS pressed back on the question.

I don't have one from your viewpoint. I had one in mine (..and like I said, it was shaky, so I went with the 'coin toss' [yeah Tiruin is an idiot, say that once more.])
That is what I'd like you to address--which you finally do! Thank you!
@orange: Eh? No, I didn't like ZU's brevity. Akin to what I said before, I meant what I said. One post prior to day end does not confirm him, and did not confirm him (thank you intuition for being right again where I am wrong) so I took the gambit: Making sure.
That is what I wanted to hear. Finally!
But yes I do have a case. It wasn't a flashy case, because of how little we interacted (and timezones), but I had a point on him. :I  I do not like how you discount that point.

So make me a case where +!!scientist!!+ is the better lynch target today. And it better be good, because you've laid the bodies at your own feet, and have made it clear that you'll kill at night. Which means that if you live tonight, we can expect another of your suspicions to result in a death, potentially of another townie.

He isn't the better lynch (sans scum planning ahead to counter any vig-claim) due to the timing of his reaction.

And why do you try to second guess me again at the 'potentially another townie' part?! You said this wasn't personal, so what in the world are you saying?!

[makeinu]

I'm not saying you're an idiot. Please, stop taking this personally. It's not personal.

And yeah, potentially another townie. There are still more townies than scum, and you certainly haven't made the case that you have a solid lead on scum.

Also, SK can't win with Town, so if that's your plan, it won't work:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Serial Killer

    Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Serial Killer.

Abilities:

    Pregame you must choose to be either 1-Shot Bulletproof OR have Ninja/Strongman kills..
    Each night phase, you may select a player in the game to nightkill.

Win condition:

    You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

SK has to die for Town to win.

And you're clearly misunderstanding the setup. Once town power roles, and the scum team, are set, more town (T) are added. Three dead T =/= TTT setup, because five town power roles means a TT setup, with three scum, and three T are added to make thirteen players, for a total of five T in the game.

[Tiruin]

And yeah, potentially another townie. There are still more townies than scum, and you certainly haven't made the case that you have a solid lead on scum.

On contraire, I've provided reactionary evidence. You, Toony (protip: Look at his interactions with TDS.) and scientist out in the good zone. Problem: You three are the only other people active.
Also, you never gave thoughts on a massclaim.

Also, SK can't win with Town, so if that's your plan, it won't work:

..You don't get what I'm sarcasming, do you.

And you're clearly misunderstanding the setup. Once town power roles, and the scum team, are set, more town (T) are added. Three dead T =/= TTT setup, because five town power roles means a TT setup, with three scum, and three T are added to make thirteen players, for a total of five T in the game.

...What? I don't see that kind of example in the JK9++.

It says:

    Once the powerroles for town and the scum have been determined, add a number of Vanilla Townies to equal 13 players.

However it also says

The moderator randomly chooses 7 numbers from 1-100, repeating permitted. Then, each number is turned into a letter as follows:

    1-50 = T (Townie. This actually directly influences scum powerroles.)
    51-65 = I (Investigation)
    66-75 = P (Protection)
    76-85 = H (Hiding)
    86-95 = K (Killing)
    96-100 = R (Flavour Cop)

The mod then notes how many of each letter is generated.

None of I/P/H/K or R equal a scum powerrole. A T then, by elimination, must represent a vanilla townie.
Though I've no idea how the

Once the powerroles for town and the scum have been determined

fits in. And your example..doesn't help.
We have 7 numbers rolled, then + vanilla townies to equal it to 13.

[makeinu]

Sarcasm. 

The problem with your sarcasm claim there is that it could be true.


Setup, not that hard:

Seven numbers rolled. Any number can be T, 50% chance.

Number of T in that seven numbers rolled determines size and makeup of the scum. From two to four scum, possible SK.

Seven rolls, plus 2-4 scum, equals 9-11 assigned roles. 13 players minus 9-11 assigned roles means 2-4 added T.

It's not the T's that matter. It's the others, the I/P/H/K/R, that determine the scum. With five claimed power roles, scum is three mafia, Goon/Bus/JOAT, and no SK.

Five town power roles plus three mafia equals eight players, plus two T from the initial setup, plus three T added to make 13 players.

That's five T with five power roles. We've got three dead T, one dead H, no conflict.

That's the massclaim there. I have nothing to add to that. Any other power claims fucks up all the math, so anyone left is Vanilla Town or scum. And scum don't claim, not honestly, anyway.

And yeah, I have a huge problem that SBC is lurking AGAIN!! dammit!! Fucking hate lurkers almost as much as I hate Vigs.