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Author Topic: Hearthstone TCG - And the card goes wild! Goodnight Doctor Boom.  (Read 159833 times)

frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #390 on: June 19, 2015, 08:08:45 pm »

Card games always suffer from power creep, unless they take cards out of rotation like some MtG formats. Take your average zoo deck from 2 years ago before any expansions, and compare with current zoo. Hell, compare with post-naxx. In a 30 card deck, if there's any 1 single card you can take out and replace with a card from an expansion because it's better, that deck's power just crept ever so slightly forwards. Take a 30 card deck, and replace it with say, 6 cards from a new set, or old cards that have new synergies with new cards, and that deck just got massively stronger.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #391 on: June 19, 2015, 09:03:08 pm »

That's not really power creep though, that's just decks inevitably getting better with more options.  Power creep refers more to cards just being more powerful in each expansion, rendering old cards obsolete immediately.
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Neonivek

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #392 on: June 19, 2015, 10:01:09 pm »

That's not really power creep though, that's just decks inevitably getting better with more options.  Power creep refers more to cards just being more powerful in each expansion, rendering old cards obsolete immediately.

Power Creep doesn't necessarily mean the numbers are getting bigger (though yeah the new cards do often seem to have more bang for your mana).

What you described is the perfect example of power creep. You just get "better options" that make the old ones "worse options".

So long as you make the older card obsolete, because there is a better card, it is power creep.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #393 on: June 19, 2015, 10:27:52 pm »

If that's your definition than power creep is not a bad or even an avoidable thing.  What, are you expecting them to release nothing but unplayable garbage in each update?
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Neonivek

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #394 on: June 19, 2015, 10:34:24 pm »

If that's your definition than power creep is not a bad or even an avoidable thing.  What, are you expecting them to release nothing but unplayable garbage in each update?

And who said power creep isn't avoidable or necessarily always bad?

The only way these card games could avoid power creep would be if they were able to adjust the stats of the old cards. (something Yu-Gi-Oh does... the only card game I know of that actually prints "improved" versions of cards... Outside I guess Pokémon but that is kind of something separate)
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Criptfeind

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #395 on: June 19, 2015, 10:46:59 pm »

I guess it's just depending on what you mean by it. Certainly it's harder every day as a newer player to be relevant on ladder and to catch up. Which could be considered sorta bad. From that prospective. But it seems like an unavoidable ill to me.

Anywaaay.

Just going though the decks Neo posted. Random thoughts.

Priest 1:Mind vision bad. elven archer bad. Voodoo doctor bad but maybe slightly worth it in priest. Divine spirit I don't like it but I guess it's okay. Shadow word pain is good enough for 2. Annoyotron seems pretty questionable. Shatterned sun cleric is good despite what some might say. Silverback bad. Two shadow word deaths might be a bit much, although I'd probably have to decide based on what I fight most often. Dragonling is okay, but the way the health is broken up probably isn't great on a priest, I dunno. You have 4(5) late game 'win' cards. Frostwolf warlord, two berserkers, and a mind control, they are all pretty situational, I'd drop 1-2 of them (probably a berserker and the warlord, or just one berserker depending on how often you can get that warlord value) for boulderfists. Molten Giant why?

Other priest: Pretty much the same for the low cost stuff. What, you have two thoughtsteals, but they are not in the other deck? I'd drop a beserker again for a boulderfist.

Shaman: I'm less a fan of shaman. I sorta see what you're going for. Although I don't like frostshocks, and as someone said rockbiters and fire elementals are too good not to have in pretty much any shaman deck. There are also a lot of sorta substandard minions I'd look at, like the raid leaders and frostwolf grunts, might be worth it to just turn them into normal minions at their cost. Windfury can be sorta bad as well yeah. Or at least pointless. Who knows. Molten giant why?

Paladin: I love paladin. Annoytron is weak, raid leader is weak, nullifer is weak, bodyguards are weak, 6 lords of the arena is probably 6 lords to many. Also concentration is super good and blessing of kings is probably at least a one of. Also guardian of kings is good! Poor mans heal bot that's eveeeeen better in some matchups. I'd also probably take out a warlord for a ogre or a guardian. Molten giant why?

I'm not sure if you were courting advice/questions. But there you go. In general your decks seem to have the general theme of sacrificing basic strength for special abilities, even when those abilities are not worth it. And also a random Molten Giant. If I had general advice I'd look towards removing some more clunky/weak special ability focused minions (like raid leader and the x+1/x taunts as examples) for just good basic strong minons like the yeti and ogres.



Playing more brawl recently. Although rags certainly at a disadvantage, I still feel that it's not THAT bad. I'm still hanging around a 80% win rate with rag, unless nef pulls razorgore or vaelastrasz, it feels like rag really has a lot of cards that are very good at dealing with the insane aggression. It is hard though. And very RNG with that hero power. Also gota say, flame strike and Baron Geddon are very often key cards, despite what someone mentioned earlier. Open the Gates is pretty much the winning card for Nef more often then not late game. It's insane value, and without an AOE it's both huge damage and shuts down rags hero power. And even without open the gates a lot of rags cards fall just short of the damage they need in the mid game, in the early game you can rely on your weapon for that extra damage. But I've found it's not uncommon to sometimes have a couple of dudes with 2 health hanging around on the enemies side.
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Neonivek

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #396 on: June 19, 2015, 11:04:59 pm »

I think eventually it wouldn't hurt if they updated the base decks with improved versions.

We are pretty close to that point... IMO
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Leafsnail

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #397 on: June 19, 2015, 11:13:41 pm »

Improving the base decks sounds like a good idea, although GvG and BRM actually pushed a lot of expensive cards of the format (for example, you used to need Ragnaros, Cairne and Sylvanas for a lot of decks and now you really don't) so I'm not sure if the game's less accessible than it was when all of the top decks were running a fleet of value legendaries.  So while the power level is higher it might be easier to get yourself up to that same power level.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 11:16:29 pm by Leafsnail »
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frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #398 on: June 19, 2015, 11:23:54 pm »

Sylvanas is still in a large majority of non-aggro decks, and Rag sees play pretty much everywhere he used to. Cairne is pretty much gone though. There's a lot more really solid commons, on the other hand. Most decks would be a majority rares+, now you see a ton of commons with some rares and an epic or two splashed in, plus Dr.7 and some adventure epics/legendaries.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #399 on: June 19, 2015, 11:47:30 pm »

Sylvanas is played a fair bit but I think you can replace her in most cases with Thaurissan (and indeed Thaurissan is better a lot of the time).
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Skyrunner

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #400 on: June 19, 2015, 11:49:24 pm »

I just opened Foe Reaper 4000 (which also happens to be an upgraded Harvest Golem) from an Arena pack :D Should I dust it for a Thalnos?
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Leafsnail

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #401 on: June 19, 2015, 11:51:22 pm »

It's never seen any real play, you can go ahead and dust it for something you want.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #402 on: June 20, 2015, 02:35:26 am »

Foe Reaper 4000 is a fun car, but it's glacially slow. If you want, toss it into a deck. I wouldn't dust it for Thalnos specifically though. Thalnos has the dubious honor of being the legendary with the single closest common proxy in Kobold Geomancer. Thalnos is massively better because it can also cycle in matchups where that's needed, but I wouldn't dust a card which you like for it.

Re: Sylvanas. Slyvanas and Tharissan serve massively different purposes. Sylvanas is the queen of incredibly awkward plays that swing the game wildly in your favor. Tharissan forces your opponent to have an answer, but if they have board control then they can usually kill it. That's entirely opposite what Sylvanas' purpose is.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #403 on: June 20, 2015, 02:51:00 am »

I was incredibly annoyed by a double Divine Spirit on Lightspawn... :| how am I supposed to deal with that thing.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #404 on: June 20, 2015, 02:58:48 am »

Silence, attack past it, kill the lightspawn before the priest can combo it, don't get outskilled by your opponent drawing a 3 card combo early on.
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