Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nerjin]

Extend

I'll be posting here in a bit but new years is a bit of a heavy time for most of you party animals so I'm wanting to hear a bit more from all of you. I'm in the middle of an important call right this second however but expect me to enlighten the hell out of you guys here once it's done.

[mastahcheese]

Extend

I think it's unanimous of the people who've replied so far.

makeinu: First off, you failed to ask me a question, I'm not saying this is scummy, I just feel left out.
But mainly what I want to say is that I don't think voting him is really going to make a difference, but I can't make the argument that we shouldn't vote him because of, you know, the lurking bit. I don't want to see yet another day 1 town lynch due once again to a lack of participation (if he's actually scum, though, that will blow my mind, along with being a terrible scum tactic) but it's your vote, in any case.

Because scum does not like drawing attention to themselves... Voting first/last draws attention. Sheeping 2nd or 3rd usually draws way less attention, that's why I become suspicious of the 2nd or 3rd.

That's true, but sometime scum can care more about getting a townie lynched than about drawing attention.

Sort of towards Persus13 and Superblackcat, but mostly just my opinion. You also have to take into account the fact that scum might very well vote first or last just because they wouldn't normally do so. But that's just WIFOM, in general.

MyOwnWorstEnemy: It doesn't look like you have much to say at the moment. I'll ask another hypothetical.
One person was pressing very hard one another for scummy behavior, but the presser ends up getting killed in the night, and flips cop. What's your next plan of action?

[makeinu]

makeinu: First off, you failed to ask me a question, I'm not saying this is scummy, I just feel left out.

I don't think you're the only one I haven't asked a question of, but I'm too lazy to double-check right now.

But mainly what I want to say is that I don't think voting him is really going to make a difference, but I can't make the argument that we shouldn't vote him because of, you know, the lurking bit. I don't want to see yet another day 1 town lynch due once again to a lack of participation (if he's actually scum, though, that will blow my mind, along with being a terrible scum tactic) but it's your vote, in any case.

There are two primary schools of thought on D1 and the lynch.

One is that a "no lynch" vote is worse than any other option, because even a mis-lynch feeds the Town information.

The other is that an uninformed lynch is just as bad, or worse, than "no lynch" because it generally kills Town.

Which view do you subscribe to?

[Nerjin]

So again I’ll be teaching you how I post things. Since this has come after my first “Read-straveganza” it’ll be a little different. The top-most section will be the summary of my previous case. The center will be my reads since my last “Read-a-palooza”. The bottom will be the summary of my read over-all. Let’s get started.

Spoiler: Jembot (click to show/hide)

I have had no direct interaction with Jembot thus far. He has finally started posting however. So let’s see what I can find:

•Jembot - You're the doctor, and after seeing someone scumhunting in a very powerful and effective way, you protect them, and nobody dies in the night. Do you now support their decisions and try to back them up? How would you go about this without it seeming like buddying?

[1]I wouldn't believe their every word, but in most cases in which I don't know anything else about that specific person as compared to the person who they are trying to lynch, I would be inclined to believe them. If they tried to lynch someone I wouldn't just hump on the bandwagon immediately, I would make my mind up first, but all other things being equal I would be more likely to vote for who they are trying to lynch than some other lynchee. [2]If they someone tried to lynch them, I would then try to divert attention off them, and would not vote for them unless they did something extremely scummy. I wouldn't just jump to their defense immediately, but start questioning a few other players and see if I can get focus peoples suspicions on them and not on the (most likely) town.

[1] This is a very bad idea. Strong scumhunting doesn't mean they're not wrong. I've done strong scum-hunting that has led to town deaths. This sort of thing happens. Strong scumhunting is a town-tell but not much else on its own.

[2] Oh? What if the other player's case is strong? What exact questions would you try to ask to deflect the blame? Odds are that if someone is voting someone else there is a good game reason for it. How do you account for these contingincies?

Jembot: You're scum. Your partner is radiating scumminess. Do you bus him or try to frame another person to save them?

Overall, I would probably not bus, as most people would expect the scum partner to bus in that situation, so bussing doesn't make me look any more town. I would try to look for inconsistencies in anyone else's actions and try to highlight those, or attempt to find a lurker and convince people that they are scum. If their were no inconsistencies or lurkers, I would probably bus if there was already a bandwagon on him, as that isn't really what you would expect scum to do in that situation.

You are aware that people don't magically know what you are doing is bussing right? We'd just see that you were voting for someone who is acting extremely scummy. In fact at that point it's safer to bus than it is to try to pin it on someone else. Also bandwgaoning is something you should NEVER do. If you don't have your own strong reasons to vote someone, vote somebody else. So long as it does not result in a tie.

Jembot, you are FAR too passive for my liking. You’ve not asked any questions or even attempted scum-hunting. You’ve answered questions directed at you but nothing else. Why are you trying to avoid attention?

Spoiler: Makeinu (click to show/hide)

I noted that Makeinu had only really interacted with Mastah and Persus. Let’s see if my fellow IC has branched out.

*facepalm* I really must remember to preview. Broken tags bug me.

Since it’s so early in the day I don’t really have much else to say but I do have a bit of a blanket question for EVERYONE:

What is your experience with mafia? Also, which role would you most want to have and why?

Serial Killer, Ninja/Strongman

Sounds fun but I was talking about in this game.

If he doesn't want to play, that's fine. But signing up, then not showing up while actively posting elsewhere is not cool. Especially in a BM, where the loss of one player to non-participation is very costly.

Yes, I personally wouldn't allow him in games if he keeps pulling this kind of stuff. Still doing it once doesn't mean he'll keep doing it. People get side-tracked. I'd prefer not to have to but... We might have to policy lynch here...

Nerjin:

You know what was nice? Not my day at work. I'm entirely drained... I won't be able to post today I'm afraid.

Hi, Nerjin. Welcome to tomorrow. I hope that your day at work was better. I know that I hate bad days at work too.

Do you have any insights that you'd like to share with us today?

MyOwnWorstEnemy asked a question of you that I'd love to hear an answer to. I have my own opinion, naturally, and I'd love to see how your thinking compares to mine.

I notice in your answer to mastahcheese's question, you say:

I don't really pay attention to meta. 

Do you mean that in general, or in this game only? Why? Do you find that meta is not helpful in scum-hunting? Why?

Today was... Less fail-tacular than yesterday for sure but eh... Neither here nor there. I have several insights, see my big rant at the bottom for more details. But keep in mind that bolding a player's name is used to attract that player's attention to that spot. At first I thought you were referring to MOWE and MC and not me anymore.

To answer your question about Meta I don't EVER pay attention to it. It's not useful, to me, in scum-hunting either. Why? Well a skilled player uses Meta against their opponents. I for one have a very defeatist attitude when losing. Someone started pointing this out to me so I figured "Town's losing. Therefore I'll pretend to be super-bummed." and it won the game for me. It's VERY rude to think of your opponents as anything less than skilled. So I do not pay attention to Meta for that reason. It's a fickle technique at the best of times.

Makeinu: How's your Sinlessmoon vote going. Why are you voting him now given that that strategy utterly failed last game in terms of getting him to play?

Like shit, obviously, in terms of getting him to play... but I lack a better target for my vote right now, and we don't have another replacement lined up. Unless Imp can join, that is. So, policy lynch at this point.

Questioning and pressuring other players would certainly be a good thing to do then hm? Can’t just sit on our hands and wait for scum to out themselves man! Gotta get out there!

At least you’re playing the game. Your focus on Sinless is a bit of a waste of time though. Please try to go towards some more players.

Spoiler: Mastahcheese (click to show/hide)

I was pretty okay with Mastahcheese’s play overall. A misconception was the only thing I saw wrong. Let’s examine further however:

Ah, right, I was thinking [Cop] also showed roles. I think there is one that can also see roles, but I don't remember the name of it.

Role-cop sees roles. We have that in this game but it's specifically a mafia role. Easy mistake to make.

Sinlessmoon: Your profile shows you as having been last active at 03:15:59 pm today, after this game started at 10:40:09 am, and you have yet to make your first reply. Please explain yourself.

Dude, life happens. Forum mafia is a fickle mistress. Sometimes you'll have to wait a long while to get answers.

You promised questions to others Mastahcheese, what are your reads? Day is getting along a bit too far to be dallying. Who do you suspect most?

Spoiler: MyOwnWorstEnemy (click to show/hide)

Since my last “Read-a-thon” she has started posting. So let’s get my first read on this lady shall we?

What is your experience with mafia? Also, which role would you most want to have and why?

I have no experience with mafia aside from reading a couple finished games and a [handsome] friend explaining the basics of the game to me.
 
As for the role, I'd choose doctor. I just think it could be the most beneficial to town, especially if there's a really strong town member hot on the scum's trail. Players like that need to survive as long as possible.

Fair enough. Though keep in mind that this won't always catch the scum's kill attempt. So if you [or anyone else for that matter] don't happen to stop the NK don't get discouraged. It can be hard to do.

Nerjin: In your opinion, why are so many BMs scum wins?

In short it's twofold: IC's can find it hard to tell the difference between a newblette mistake and a scum-slip. The players, on the other hand, tend not to really know what they're doing.
On a non-game related note there’s an entire thread discussing this issue elsewhere but I’ll leave that to the reader to decide whether they’re interested enough to do some homework or not.
MORE PRESSURE!!!! Come on kiddo! You’ve asked questions. Follow up on them! Who do you see as the most scummy so far?

Spoiler: Persus13 (click to show/hide)

All I had last time was wondering if they really needed another BM. They think so. I don’t. So I’m going to treat them as an equal. This is high honors. Let’s see what that nets us.
[Persus13 only answers questions and not in a way that I have anything specific to say]
How lovely!

Now how about you stop trying to avoid attention and actually start pressing cases! You’re better than this! You KNOW this is a bad idea! What’s up?

Suspicion definitely on the rise. PRESS A CASE if you would.

Spoiler: Pufferfish (click to show/hide)

This was another who hadn’t said anything the last time I did a read-through. Let’s see if they did anything substantive or if this fish is full of air… Eh? Eh?

•Pufferfish - What do you think was your biggest mistake in the last BM sprint game, where Persus and Tiruin won as scum? If you could go back, how would you have fixed it?

I probably would have not lynched anyone first turn and convinced all not to.

NO! Wrong! No-lynching is the absolute WORST move you can make. Mislynching is preferable as you LEARN something. What do you learn from no-lynching day one? Hm? Nothing at all! What does mafia gain? A free kill. Lynch is the towns ONLY weapon. Ignore that and we may as well just shorten EVERY day! NO-LYNCHING IS A FOOL'S GAMBLE!

I forget, are you in Limerick?

...

Okay, exactly how many of you are playing in both games?

Irrelevant and non-important. Other games DO NOT EXIST when you are posting in this thread. Someone could be playing in sixteen other games but that's beside the point. How are they acting in this game is. So let's not focus on limerick or whatever. Let's focus on this one eh?

Pufferfish: It's down to three people: you, a fellow townie, and a scum. The scum has convinced your fellow townie that you are scum. What do you do?

Role claim the FUCK out of myself.

Unless the scum has. A counterclaim would look... Weird. I would be all like "but no."

In essence, everything I could to turn the vote against scummy scum. Like a townie should.

An interesting answer though the only one you could really give I suppose. How do you figure out which one is scum though? How do you know if the convincer is well-intentioned town or scum? How do you know if the convincee was really convinced or is simply scum hopping onto an opportunity?

I really have nothing else to add. Though I’m curious, are you going to follow up on the few questions you asked? Who is most scummy right now? SCUM-HUNT AND VOTE!

Spoiler: Superblackcat (click to show/hide)

EP left day 1 and so I’m just going to start fresh with SBC. I DON’T usually recommend this but all I had on EP was that he was considering replacing out.

Superblackcat: Everyone's suddenly turning on a person you don't have a case on. What do you do?

I vote the second one to jump on the bandwagon.

What if they have good reasons? Do you still vote them? At what point do you consider the person they're voting is scum? Voting someone isn't a scum-tell. Voting someone without or with weak reasoning is. An example of weak reasoning? “You voted them second!”

Extend


Makeinu:

Superblackcat:

How do you feel about replacing in for Elephant Parade?

Do you still feel that a BM serves to teach you anything?

Superblackcat: After a townie lynch, the first and third person to vote for them begin to place accusations on the second, what do you do?

For the second question: I start to become suspicious of all three, but more so of the third person than the second.

Why would you be suspicious of the second person in that scenario, but not the first?

Because scum does not like drawing attention to themselves... Voting first/last draws attention. Sheeping 2nd or 3rd usually draws way less attention, that's why I become suspicious of the 2nd or 3rd.

Simply voting someone as the 2nd or 3rd person proves little. Their reasoning has a LOT to do with it. As I said earlier.
Like a lot of others you need to ask questions on others and actually vote someone. Without asking questions we learn nothing and therefore we’re sitting ducks for scum.

Spoiler: Sinlessmoon (click to show/hide)

Nothing since the start of the game. You are a liability to town. If you get lynched then you deserve it Sinlessmoon. Either get in here and play or ask for a replacement!

Spoiler: My Rant to EVERYONE (click to show/hide)

Hello there. I am your IC. Therefore any failings on your part reflect on me. None of you are playing to your full potential. I know that you can all do better and that you just need a little push. You’re all new. I remember it well. I too was afraid of doing the wrong thing. Voting for the wrong person, however the amount of people simply hanging back is disappointing in itself. HOWEVER what is TRULY unacceptable is that NO ONE IS VOTING! Your vote is important to the game. Without your vote the scum will pick us off one by one! You need to get out there and HUNT! Ask questions! Apply pressure! THEN VOTE! Even if you mess up you’ll learn what you did wrong! You need to at least try!

I realize something I said earlier might be taken the wrong way. When I said your failings reflect on me I did not mean that it makes me seem like a poor teacher. What I meant is that I have been a very poor teacher. Please, get out there and hunt for the scum. Don’t worry about messing up. It happens to everyone. That’s what me and Makeinu are here for. To try to steer you better. But there’s only so much we can do if you do not try. All I’m asking if that you try a little harder okay? Please, just try.

[mastahcheese]

makeinu: First off, you failed to ask me a question, I'm not saying this is scummy, I just feel left out.

I don't think you're the only one I haven't asked a question of, but I'm too lazy to double-check right now.

I'm not the only one, I just like having questions to answer.

But mainly what I want to say is that I don't think voting him is really going to make a difference, but I can't make the argument that we shouldn't vote him because of, you know, the lurking bit. I don't want to see yet another day 1 town lynch due once again to a lack of participation (if he's actually scum, though, that will blow my mind, along with being a terrible scum tactic) but it's your vote, in any case.
There are two primary schools of thought on D1 and the lynch.
-snip-
Which view do you subscribe to?

I'd say that a mis-lynch is better than a no-lynch, so I'll have to join you on that one.

You promised questions to others Mastahcheese, what are your reads? Day is getting along a bit too far to be dallying. Who do you suspect most?

Yeah, I've been failing a good bit at the follow-up questions, I realize that now. I'll work on that.
But I'll go ahead and list my current reads.

•Superblackcat - I'm not understanding some of their reasoning behind some things, and I should really be doing better about questioning them, but I'm not getting a scum vibe from them. I think they're town.
•Sinlessmoon - Hasn't said a word. I dislike the "D1 policy lurker lynch" as a general principle, but it's wasting out time. I say Lurker.
•Jembot - Hasn't said a whole lot. Hasn't made much of an attempt to ask questions, either. I say slightly scum/absentee.
•Persus13 - Also not that active, but better than some, (this whole game seems to be rather... slow) I'd say town, but not sure.
•Pufferfish - I don't really have much of a read at all on pufferfish. Seems to be acting a little passive, to me. Not sure what to say.
•MyOwnWorstEnemy - Been asking questions, a bit. Although I'm rather guilty of this, myself. I'm leaning town, on this one.
•Nerjin - You're clearly doing a good job of pressuring us to try our best, most of your questions have been more-so oriented toward how we plan on playing the game, rather than the game itself, which seems to me like a very IC thing to do. You clearly are more concerned about the reason behind a BM then how well you fair in it. Leaning town, clearly IC.
•makeinu - You seem to be doing the best about follow-up questions, from what I can tell. And you're certainly trying to be a helpful IC. I think you're town.

[Persus13]

Nerjin: Sorry you're right, I do need to be more active, I've just been lazy and partly busy with RL stuff. Also, the slow pace of this game hasn't really helped, although I haven't really done anything about that, I guess I should.

Mastahcheese:

•Sinlessmoon - Hasn't said a word. I dislike the "D1 policy lurker lynch" as a general principle, but it's wasting out time. I say Lurker.
•Jembot - Hasn't said a whole lot. Hasn't made much of an attempt to ask questions, either. I say slightly scum/absentee.
•

So despite disliking lynching lurkers, you're two top scum picks are lurkers?

Jembot: Say you're the jailkeeper and you roleblocked a player. That night there's no scum kill. Next day, someone claims cop and says a third players scum. What would you do?

MOWE: What are your thoughts on No lynch D1 or a policy lurker lynch D1?

[makeinu]

Nerjin: hope you don't mind if I steal your style. Walls of text are hard to read and digest, and I'm still adapting to the bbcodes available here, which greatly exceed those I'm used to. The "spoiler" tag is very nice.

Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)

Sounds fun but I was talking about in this game.

In this game? Cop.

I like playing the hard roles. Cop is hard, because you can't just role-claim, kill the scum, and win. A role-claim will get you killed. So you have to play smart, communicate your finds via play, and role-claim as a last resort.

I'd prefer not to have to but... We might have to policy lynch here...

I have to agree on both counts. I hate policy lynches on principle, but... lacking a solid lead on a target...

But keep in mind that bolding a player's name is used to attract that player's attention to that spot. At first I thought you were referring to MOWE and MC and not me anymore.

Ah, fair enough, still learning all the niceties of the unwritten rules here.

To answer your question about Meta I don't EVER pay attention to it. It's not useful, to me, in scum-hunting either. Why? Well a skilled player uses Meta against their opponents. I for one have a very defeatist attitude when losing. Someone started pointing this out to me so I figured "Town's losing. Therefore I'll pretend to be super-bummed." and it won the game for me. It's VERY rude to think of your opponents as anything less than skilled. So I do not pay attention to Meta for that reason. It's a fickle technique at the best of times.

Excellent answer. Thank you. I find so few that think that way. On the other forum where I play, the scum plan frequently is "get rid of [list of players] because they're dangerous" and I hate that mentality.

Spoiler: Jembot (click to show/hide)

•Jembot - You're the doctor, and after seeing someone scumhunting in a very powerful and effective way, you protect them, and nobody dies in the night. Do you now support their decisions and try to back them up? How would you go about this without it seeming like buddying?

[1]I wouldn't believe their every word, but in most cases in which I don't know anything else about that specific person as compared to the person who they are trying to lynch, I would be inclined to believe them. If they tried to lynch someone I wouldn't just hump on the bandwagon immediately, I would make my mind up first, but all other things being equal I would be more likely to vote for who they are trying to lynch than some other lynchee. [2]If they someone tried to lynch them, I would then try to divert attention off them, and would not vote for them unless they did something extremely scummy. I wouldn't just jump to their defense immediately, but start questioning a few other players and see if I can get focus peoples suspicions on them and not on the (most likely) town.

[1] This is a very bad idea. Strong scumhunting doesn't mean they're not wrong. I've done strong scum-hunting that has led to town deaths. This sort of thing happens. Strong scumhunting is a town-tell but not much else on its own.

[2] Oh? What if the other player's case is strong? What exact questions would you try to ask to deflect the blame? Odds are that if someone is voting someone else there is a good game reason for it. How do you account for these contingincies?

I want to add some further advice here, both as a player and as an IC.

[1] Not merely a bad idea, a terrible one. Good players will use strong scum-hunting as scum to throw Town off the rails. So, not only might they be wrong, they might be deliberately wrong, and you may not even realize it.

[2] Never try deflection on another player. Deflection is almost never effective when you're attempting to divert attention from yourself, and it just looks scummy when you're using it to defend someone else. If you're not going to role-claim as part of that deflection, then you're setting yourself up to look very bad.


Right now, I have a complete null read on you. You're showing that you are a new mafia player, very much so right now. That's understandable, but you need to be putting more effort forward to identify scum.

I'm going to tell you, frankly, that this lack of scum-hunting tends to make you look scummy. New players often fall into that trap in their first few games, especially if they draw scum in role assignment. The thinking goes, "I'm scum, so I'm safe so long as I stay below the radar."

Wrong.

You're safe so long as you're actively scum-hunting. You can be wrong at every turn, but you can't be quiet.

Spoiler: Superblackcat (click to show/hide)

Superblackcat: After a townie lynch, the first and third person to vote for them begin to place accusations on the second, what do you do?

For the second question: I start to become suspicious of all three, but more so of the third person than the second.

Why would you be suspicious of the second person in that scenario, but not the first?

Because scum does not like drawing attention to themselves... Voting first/last draws attention. Sheeping 2nd or 3rd usually draws way less attention, that's why I become suspicious of the 2nd or 3rd.

To my mind, that scenario screams of scum railroading on voter 2. It's a perfect setup scenario, because of thinking like yours here.

[/list]

[mastahcheese]

Mastahcheese:

•Sinlessmoon - Hasn't said a word. I dislike the "D1 policy lurker lynch" as a general principle, but it's wasting out time. I say Lurker.
•Jembot - Hasn't said a whole lot. Hasn't made much of an attempt to ask questions, either. I say slightly scum/absentee.
•

So despite disliking lynching lurkers, you're two top scum picks are lurkers?

I don't dislike lynching lurkers, I dislike the fact that there seems to be a trend in the games I've read where there's always a lurker on day 1 who ends up flipping town. But you can't not lynch them on the chance that they are actually scum trying to go under the radar.
That said, it's a necessary evil, and I dislike necessary evils, particularly when you could get more out of an active player.
I don't think Sinlessmoon is scum, but that's not a chance we can afford to make.
As for Jembot, I don't think he's lurking, as he's participating, just not very much. And even with the very slow pace of the game as it is right now, I tend to find myself barely noticing them. It feels like it's just enough to not be active-lurking, not so low that it draws suspicion, but not enough to be easily remembered. I've seen no attempt from them at trying to scumhunt, even with the most basic of attempts. They've been a very reactive force, and not an active one. I just get a scum vibe from them in general.

[Silthuri]

Nerjin: *bows respectfully* Yes master!

MyOwnWorstEnemy: One person was pressing very hard one another for scummy behavior, but the presser ends up getting killed in the night, and flips cop. What's your next plan of action?

Since a cop found it worthwhile to pursue this person and was promptly killed as a result, I think it's safe to say that the person is scum. I would then go back and look at this person's past to try to find some more solid evidence.

MOWE: What are your thoughts on No lynch D1 or a policy lurker lynch D1?

No lynch D1: no. Just no. All that does is give the mafia a free kill. The town gains nothing from it. Sure it's supposed to spare a townie, but the other town members gain valuable, SOLID information. They can use this knowledge along with the interactions this person had with others to root out the scum. And besides, there's always the chance that you'll lynch a scum.

Policy lynch: I don't like it, but it's necessary sometimes when the player doesn't contribute anything to the game. I think sometimes it's the only option. I really don't like it, but if I had to choose between no lynch and a policy lynch, I'd go policy.

My thoughts on everyone and my answer to Nerjin's question will come tomorrow. I'm sorry but posting on a phone is very draining.

[Superblackcat]

Nerjin:
I don't want to quote your spoiler ;-;
 
I realized that I just created a large ass rant about scum hunting, and if anyone wants to read my take on it, and agree/disagree/bash. Go for it.

It should answer your question too Nerjin.

Spoiler: my way of scumhunting (click to show/hide)

Anyways, Let me clarify something. You don't vote someone because they voted 1st or 2nd or 3rd or whatever... But the order people votes in SURE AS HELL DRAWS MY ATTENTION.

I've played over 100 games... Obviously not here. Not on a forum, but on a much faster, reaction mafia site. Point being, a lot of the tells become of reactions more than explicit reasoning.

On a forum, these reactions become a lot lessened, because people reread and think about their posts, but they are still there. They may think. Oh I shouldn't vote 2nd because SBC just said this. or what not, but that's not the point. At day 2, people will forget, or when they are being pressured.

There are a lot of 'tells' that I notice from playing a lot of mafia on this site. (epicmafia.com if you guys want to check it out, great site), and sheeping is one of them. In my opinion, reasoning proves not too much, unless factual reasoning, because of bias.

Scum, more often than not, will give the correct reasoning, as opposed to their reasoning. This draws less attention, and scum tries to think how to make it so no one notices them, or dislike their answer. Townies care a lot less, and are much more happy to come out and say what they think. Many times, I've seen players go ballistic about what someone said. When that's what they think. It's not a scum tell, in fact, much more of a town tell.

For me, (This may be called paranoia), Someone who I suspect the least, without a good reason to do so, seems suspicious (If this makes sense). Especially on forums. On the mafia site, it's a lot of reactions, so it's a lot harder to formulate your response, on this forum, you formulate ALL of your responses... Therefore someone who manage to appear not scummy, without a good reason... seems incredibly scummy. This is because to appear so non-scummy, the player has to be nice, to almost everyone. They have to not speak their opinion about a lot of thins and 'go with the flow'. That's not a town move, that's a scum move.

This happened in two BM games so far. Towards d3 and d4 they seemed more scummy, but by then I was dead. >.>

Squill in the earlier BM, and Persus in BM Sprint. Both of them did this. Both of them were scum.

A big part that I disagree with is the emphasis on 'reasoning'. I don't think we are trying to reason who is scum, we are looking for anomalies, things that aren't human-like. Things that appear weird, or appear weird not appearing weird. This show us scum, because of the amount of pretending a scum person has to do, they start to create an anomaly. For example... On d2 of sprint, I saw an anomaly, Scum would have stacked votes by now, considering top vote was only 2 players, if who we were voting were scum. But instead, nothing happened. I commented on it, I was absolutely correct, but I didn't act on it, and lost.

Yay for wall of text!

[Superblackcat]

Makeinu Why such an interest to what I think about scum hunting? Trying to improve your game? ;P

[Superblackcat]

Argghhh Read over the last two posts... >: C


mastah, any questions, please ask!

Makeinu, So if you are scum, and given my reasoning, how do you think you will vote? How much wifom would you use off of my reasoning?

[makeinu]

Makeinu Why such an interest to what I think about scum hunting? Trying to improve your game? ;P

Ha ha, no.

Makeinu, So if you are scum, and given my reasoning, how do you think you will vote? How much wifom would you use off of my reasoning?

Assume I'm scum, and I know your scum-hunting, it's the same as if I didn't. When I am posting in the forum, I'm Town.

I'm not pretending to be Town. I am Town.

What you describe is the concept of the Uncanny Valley.

Spoiler: Uncanny Valley (click to show/hide)

The uncanny valley is a hypothesis in the field of human aesthetics which holds that when human features look and move almost, but not exactly, like natural human beings, it causes a response of revulsion among some human observers. Examples can be found in the fields of robotics,[1] 3D computer animation,[2][3] and in medical fields such as burn reconstruction, infectious diseases, neurological conditions, and plastic surgery.[4] The "valley" refers to the dip in a graph of the comfort level of humans as subjects move toward a healthy, natural human likeness described in a function of a subject's aesthetic acceptability.

The term was coined by the robotics professor Masahiro Mori as Bukimi no Tani Genshō (不気味の谷現象) in 1970. The hypothesis has been linked to Ernst Jentsch's concept of the "uncanny" identified in a 1906 essay, "On the Psychology of the Uncanny".[5][6][7] Jentsch's conception was elaborated by Sigmund Freud in a 1919 essay entitled "The Uncanny" ("Das Unheimliche").[8]

Turns out, people don't like robots that become too human, because they're close, but not close enough. We react the same way to physical and mental deficits, subconsciously. That's what happens when scum try to come off as Town, instead of just playing the game as they would if they were Town. They seem off because they are off.

Remember where I said earlier that lies are easy to tell, but hard to tell convincingly?

Well, they're not hard to tell convincingly when they're not lies. So, as scum, either get the Town lying to itself, or, simply, be Town, and then you're not lying.

[mastahcheese]

Argghhh Read over the last two posts... >: C
mastah, any questions, please ask!

I have questions, but I just realized I stayed up until 4:30 in the morning playing X-COM, so I'll be back!

[Jembot]

The main reason that I haven't done much so far is simply lack of time, had a big new years. I've got a bit more spare time now, so I'm going to get out there and scum hunt.

Questions-
Mastahcheese- You are town and are at L-1, but haven't really done anything particularly scummy. Do you claim or do anything townish, or just hope someone else does something scummy to take attention off you?
Superblackcat- You are cop, and night 1 you get a read on a player that says scum. What do you do?
Pufferfish- What would you prefer to be, vanilla townie or vanilla scum? Why?
Makeinu- It's day one, and you have narrowed your lynching choices down to 2. One has been acting very scummy, but the other has only posted once. Do you lynch the likely scum, or policy lunch the lurker? Why?
MOWE- You are Vig, and it is night 1. You have no real reads on anybody. Do you take a shot in the dark, or kill nobody that night?
Persus- You are scum, and someone claims cop and calls you scum. What do you do?
Nerjin- As an IC, what would you say is the number one mistake made by new players, either scum or town?

As to Persus's question (can't quote my phone is fucking up)
I would probably just leave it, and wait to see what the third players reply is, and just vote how I would if I was vanilla townie. I would go back and look for prior evidence of scumminess, and decide what to do based on if he looked scummy or not.