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[Persus13]

Extend Yay activity!

Hey Persus.  Why is your vote record so stinky?

Because my reads his game have been surprisingly poor.

You started out voting Max for tunneling- kind of a silly accusation for so early in the game.  You talked about him but didn't really put out much pressure after that.  When Max called for a replacement, you voted Sinlessmoon for his lurking until you realized so many other people were doing that; then you moved back to Max and that was pretty much it for you D1.

No, I voted him because he seemed to be doing the exact same thing he did D1 in Supernatural and he was scum, which was constantly attack one person (and I misused the word tunneling, should have used focus or something like that), then I kept my vote on him because he then attacked Tiruin for asking a question of clarification that I had no problem with being asked. I'd also like to point out that for a lot of D1 I was playing the BM Sprint and that was a higher priority to this game and I've also been busy with school. If you to see me when I'm playing as scum, I'd advise you or anyone in this game to read that. Also, I kept with my vote of Max because he was my top scumpick D1, and I had no reads on anyone else.

D2 you start out listing some suspects:

My suspects are Tiruin (Only voted Max yesterday), Imp (seems odd, scumhunting Toaster for A JOKE, which is much easier to make than a WOT analysis post, and friendliness), and you (scummy feeling, not sure why). Caz also seems suspicious to me but I have no clue where he is. How about you?

...except you don't actually vote any of them.  Additionally, I get the feeling you're trying to buddy me with your attack on Imp.

I'd been getting poor reads, so I took my time to reread D1 before voting and scumhunting. I wasn't ready to start scumhunting people when I made that list, and only gave a list because Jim asked me.

Heck, Imp even acknowledged my answering of these.  Why are you trying to be Imp's little helper monkey?

Because I was wondering if I should vote her.[...]

...You're wondering in public?

Well, more accurately where I placed my vote depended on how my question was answered.

Let's put it this way- how else would you have voted here?[/quote]
If Imp had shown me questions you hadn't answered I would have likely voted you. If you had acknowledged that you hadn't answered those questions and the answer seemed scummy I would have voted you. If you had acknowledged that you hadn't answered the questions and said you missed them, I would have focused on Tiruin or Jim instead.

You then move your vote off Imp and onto a nonplaying lurker who already had votes- *before* Imp addresses any of your concerns.  It's almost like you don't care about them (because they're totally fake.)

I got annoyed at Sinlessmoon and decided he need to active or die. Imp is going to respond regardless of whether or not I vote her, and she knows I think she's scummy, so why do I need to vote her to get my questions answered?

Persus:
Will we actually get any information for lynching Sinless?

His role flip, yeah. And it will stop me looking over my shoulder at him while scumhunting, and stop scum from attacking an easy target.

Oh the irony!  I bet you laughed when you wrote this.

I think Sinlessmoon needs to either be replaced or lynched. Until either of these happens or he becomes very active, scum will have an easy target, and town will be plagued by questions about whether he's scum and lurking his way to victory. While I'd rather lynch scum suspects, we'll gain more information from sinlessmoon's death or replacement.

Why would scum lynch someone if they were inactive? It leaves us with dead weight for the whole day, so lynching him while not doing any other scumhunting is stupid.

Attacking Sinlessmoon for no activity is an easy way for to scum to look like they're scumhunting.

Now I'm the one laughing!

Yawn, your scare tactics don't really work on me. Why do you have a problem with me wanting a really bad lurker to hang or get replaced?

So tell me, dopp, what did happen with your kill last night?

Considering the fact that I'm not a dopp, I don't really know.

Persus13: ...And thats why I should reread my posts. I meant that scum would never night kill an inactive player. Scum lynching them makes sense because hey, as Jim said, safest vote in the world.

Oh, okay, glad that got cleared up.

You three are taking the easy way out too me, and you don't really have an excuse. If no one is answering your questions, put some pressure behind it and vote THEM!

Been there, done that.

We have 2 extends available, and you three have decided to go kill someone who we have no information about.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm in favor of either killing or replacing him, and have said so multiple times by now. If he gets replaced, I'll return to my other targets. But so far, that hasn't seemed likely to happen, so I'd rather cut the dead weight, so I don't have to worry about it being a dopp.

And if he isn't doing anything, being inactive as he is, then how would he lurk to victory? By all means, if you have no suspects at the end of both extends kill him. But right now, we can hunt active people instead of taking the easy way out as all scum would.

How Sinlessmoon would lurk to victory.
SInlessmoon is scum with two partners. SInless doesn't post at all. We lynch the scummiest people in the game, but Sinless is lurking and so gets ignored. Eventually, Lylo hits, Sinless is still lurking, but there's no info on him so they lynch the next scummiest player, who turns up town. Scum wins!

And lastly, I do not see him as 100% town. I see him as a needless kill that a replacement might help the town IF he is town. If he isn't, then we can still lynch them when their replacement drops tells.

I support this, but until he does get replaced, I'm still voting him.

Are you honestly telling me that your going to just kill him when we have about 4-5 RL days to do other things before deciding fully on this?

We have 2-4 days, but you're right, I should pursue other avenues at the moment.

PPE: 5 replies posted?

Persus: If I was a suspect deemed to be mentioned in public because of my vote yesterday, then what have you to say on quite anything else on me other than why I only voted once? What's your take on that?

Because I came up with that list while looking through the lurker tracker after someone asked me the question. Right now you're actually lowest of the three I mentioned on my list.

All of you have yet to do any full scum hunting today! Your all focusing on offing the most inactive player right now who I believe should have already been put on the replacement list, and aren't doing anything else.

Look and tell me how many people have posted recently. There's you, me, makeinu, Jim, and SBC. I have a target I want to scumhunt, and I've mentioned people I think are scummy before. But they aren't posting either. If I ask someone questions and they don't respond, how can I scumhunt them? I don't have strong scummy feelings about anyone who is posting (although I just got some on you), and my main target, who I VOTED, has yet to respond. I have tried to scumhunt, but they haven't responded to me, and I'm getting annoyed by dead weight.[...]

...Really? You didn't ask me anything as far as I see.

I find it hard to ask good questions to people. So often I just see what they post and look for stuff I take issue with or wish to comment or question on.

[Persus13]

If you want to see me when I played as scum, I'd advise you or anyone in this game to read the BM Sprint.

Fixed this sentance from my earlier post.

Links:
BM Sprint
Scumchat

[Superblackcat]

Uhh Makeinu:

Thank you for being the first person to ask questions of me, other than first page I was here.

Superblackcat, who do YOU think killing would give the most information? Or do YOU know who the scum are? Because I strongly suspect that you just might, and you're doing nothing to assuage my suspicions.

Currently, I'd say Persus or Jim would give us the most information, with you coming in as a close 3rd. This is because there is a lot of going back and forth on top of what these players are saying. However, I am not sure if they are scum, so...

I'm going to go with your response earlier with the thread. I won't answer 'assertions', adding the second part of the question, is completely unnecessary.

Also, could you give me a list of reasons why you suspect that I might be scum?

_________________________

Thank god for activity!

Toaster: Do you believe Max was tunneling?

Persus: Who are your current 'Top 3 Scum' and why?

MakeInU: Uhh... Not supporting lurking or anything. But the definiton of active lurking would be posting stuff inside the thread while not actually saying anything.

What you gave would be more a definition of lurking, and even then I wouldn't consider it lurking, I'd consider it MIA: Need to be replaced (Sinless) . Lurking would be actively watching this thread whilst not posting anything.

RangerCado: If you were scum, who would you kill? (I really don't have any very relevant questions for you)

Tiruin: Why haven't you asked me any questions yet? Why has everyone been mostly inactive? 

[Persus13]

Persus: Who are your current 'Top 3 Scum' and why?

Jim: D1 he seemed pretty town, but today he's seemed more scummy. His attacks on RangerCado seem odd to me, and he's asked people to vote Sinlessmoon and told Toaster that one of Sinless's posts could be construed as being Toaster's #1 scumtell if you looked at it funny.
Caz: He voted two people in a single post, as if he was trying to not be caught by NQT's voting method of finding scum. He also disappeared last night, and there was no NK. My suspicion was he was doing the scumkill and got abducted on the way
Imp: Despite claiming that me and Toaster have not answered her questions, she hasn't provided any evidence to back this up.

Mephansteras: Can we have a vote on whether or not to forcibly replace Sinless?

[RangerCado]

Superblackcat: For strategy purposes and at this point in the game, I would kill someone who strongly suspected me. This would create WIFOM, cause suspicion, and If I survived the following day my plan would have worked. If I died anyway, oh well. For personal reasons, I would probably kill Jim since he kinda gets on my nerves every game. IE. He hunts via personal insults often. And as an added point, I would probably kill Tiruin day 1 barring certain circumstances as I personally always see him as Town.

[makeinu]

Superblackcat, who do YOU think killing would give the most information? Or do YOU know who the scum are? Because I strongly suspect that you just might, and you're doing nothing to assuage my suspicions.

Currently, I'd say Persus or Jim would give us the most information, with you coming in as a close 3rd. This is because there is a lot of going back and forth on top of what these players are saying. However, I am not sure if they are scum, so...

By that, I can only assume that your list of scum suspects is the three of us, meaning two are scum and the third the alien that abducted Caz, whatever they turn out to be. Now, given that know I'm not either, and have good reasons for the other two not to be on my suspicion list (though, Persus13 does a mighty good job as scum, and I suspect Jim does as well), the fact that we're on your list doesn't give me pause to take my suspicions off you.

Also, could you give me a list of reasons why you suspect that I might be scum?

I don't think you are scum, I thought Max White was scum, because of the way he played his role. Now that you've replaced him, that residual suspicion works against you. So you get the sheer blind luck of replacing into a role that already had suspicion cast against it.

And your performance so far hasn't given me cause to reconsider, but since there are what I see as more valid targets out there, I'm willing to give you a pass for now, and give you the chance to redeem yourself. Hence, the FoS, and not a vote. That can change in either direction.

_________________________

MakeInU: Uhh... Not supporting lurking or anything. But the definiton of active lurking would be posting stuff inside the thread while not actually saying anything.

What you gave would be more a definition of lurking, and even then I wouldn't consider it lurking, I'd consider it MIA: Need to be replaced (Sinless) . Lurking would be actively watching this thread whilst not posting anything.

Here's the thing, again. Sinlessmoon has been prodded, and hasn't posted anything after saying:

Extend. I should probably post more instead of lurking. 

and:

Ah, apologies. I've been out for a couple days.

Gotta catch up on the reading.

All of his posts (all four of them!) were on day one. So, yes, he's lurking. On that we all agree.

He's not been replaced yet, however, which leads me to believe that he's not entirely inactive, just not active in thread. That, to me, does not rule out night actions and/or scum chat.

So, maybe cultural differences again here, but since I am assuming the likelihood of activity that the Town can't see, I call it active lurking.


Regardless, semantics around what he's doing or not doing aside, what he's not doing is helping the Town. Which means, by proxy definition, he's helping the scum. Inactive Town is one step above scum, and barring a better target, needs to be eliminated. So if anyone's willing to step up and be that better target, then by all means, open your mouths (figuratively) and say so. Give me a reason not to vote for Sinlessmoon and I will.

Jim: D1 he seemed pretty town, but today he's seemed more scummy. His attacks on RangerCado seem odd to me, and he's asked people to vote Sinlessmoon and told Toaster that one of Sinless's posts could be construed as being Toaster's #1 scumtell if you looked at it funny.
Caz: He voted two people in a single post, as if he was trying to not be caught by NQT's voting method of finding scum. He also disappeared last night, and there was no NK. My suspicion was he was doing the scumkill and got abducted on the way

I had something to say about this, and I've totally forgotten what it was...

Oh, right. Scum tell by Sinlessmoon. That would likely be his third post in the game, quoted above.

Re: Caz. I'll confess that had barely crossed my mind as a possibility. It would explain last night.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Jim Groovester: RangerCado
Persus13: Toaster
Sinlessmoon: Jim Groovester, makeinu, Persus13


Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday.

I have already stated that Sinless will be forcibly replaced if he does not post by Monday.

[Superblackcat]

Uhh, because of that ^ I suggest that we don't vote him?

[Tiruin]

SBC

Uhh, because of that ^ I suggest that we don't vote him?

Because of what? A votecount?
Oho. Interesting.
You suggest 'we' don't vote [Sinlessmoon//Persus//Jim -- given the vagueness of "him"] Sinlessmoon because of what exactly.
Do you really mind the lynch there, or are you too concerned that you aren't directly poking at those who are forwarding this lynch?

Tiruin: Why haven't you asked me any questions yet? Why has everyone been mostly inactive? 

...I thought I did. I wondered why you didn't reply. I realized now that I didn't.
My query to you was a note on your idea on what Max did.
Forwarding it to you, one-who-doesn't-like-to-quote. This is the basic situation. Follow the quote line to see my original statement on the matter, than at what Max said.
I was to know your reasoning O' replacement.


Caz On this.
You seriously thought I was scummy because of anyone else's lack of conviction to think about the problem and instead worry on 'OH GODS WHAT IF HE CHANGES HIS ANSWER'.
Everything is in bloody plain sight. You add a hypothetical 'Why would a town player want to interfere with someone else's scumhunting?' as if to undermine me, or preferably skew the viewpoint towards suspicion, yes?
How in the world does me simple query interfere with someone's [total lack of] scumhunting? Max never questioned Persus at all, but instead chose to drop a line and attack me on it.
And then disappear forever.
The note of interfering with the scumhunting? Nebulous. You apply a certain tangent with lacking support. If such an accusation is presented, it seems quite extreme enough to follow up on, no?
Weak argument much, Caz? I'd like to see you explain how I 'interfered' given your sensational vote.
So here are ALL of Sinlessmoon's posts:
[1, 2, 3] Being out of game.
4 being a response to an RVS. Not followed up upon by the asker [Ranger]
5 being all answers; no questions.
6 being an answer to hypothetical scenarios.
7 being a humor-ish remark along with the personal label of 'I'm lurking '
8 and last being a note on him being 'out' a few days and probably gonna post again-style.
Now what to draw from that:
> Playfulness. The denotation of the '' would note either a joking attitude or a carefree behavior. Given how he uses such and such labels on himself, I further doubt the sincerity of him being scum given his...attitude. That, or he's playing the worst damned scum game ever of 'hide and no seek' by frickin' idling.
> Answer to hypothetical scenario == distancing. Reasonable, and it inspires curiosity. Considering that pretty much all of his everything afterwards concerns itself with time-bound posts, either he's playing the dishonorable and undignified play of 'lurk and go scum! ahahaha they won't catch me', or he's sincerely under RL stuff and bad stuffs happened given his last post.
While I can't reach brevity much, I can sense that what he's doing is at best, sincere.

Y'know, given how he posed a question and didn't note on it also, in his last two posts.

Tl;dr: I see him as Town-ish, but darn useless, and cast suspicion on those voting him. If he's on the same side as TheDarkStar...then I literally don't know what to say.
Next: IT'S BEEN A DAMNED DAY. YOU'RE ALL VOTING THE PERSON WHO WOULD BE TERMED 'DEAD IN ABSENTIA' IF THIS GOES THROUGH ON...WHAT?!
QUITE MUCH NOTHING.
I see a blatant use of inactivity to further personal goals there.
Cheap play. Valid, but very well cheap.
Why I suspect those dudes? Well.
IT'S BEEN A WHOLE DARN DAY, AND ALL I SEE IS PEOPLE VOTING THE ABSENTEE. THERE ARE TONS OF OTHER PEOPLE OUT THERE AND NO NOTE ON THEM BEING SCUMMY?!
Emphasis on the last part. Let's check the D1/2 votecount.



Jim:
This may insult people. Me included. >_>
Anyway. Personal annoyance on my part aside:
Now for your vote. You seriously are picking on that one dude instead of anyone else, huh.
He can be force-replaced given his posts. And from what I glean on yours, you don't consider them all in detail other than the general 'he's gone.' note.

makeinu: YOUR vote agrees with Jim.

Both of you men: Why are you voting Sinlessmoon. I see nothing else on why you're doing so, and why you do so over anyone else given how Day 1 went out, with the only redeeming note being "nobody else asked you guys why."
Let's bring me into this matter. Why aren't you guys mentioning me--the absentee right next to that one dude. Surely my lack of stuffs present a conspicuous note, no? :O
Your suspect list, pertaining here, seems to qualify the label of lurking as a lethal tell without any regard to what else happened on D1. Is everyone that spotless that you aren't poking at it?

Persus
I wonder on your priorities.
Please expound to me how one such as Sinlessmoon would be scum in that scenario given what he said? Given you being a core player last D1, I'd also like to know what you thought about my 'spat' with Max.

All of you: Restating so you won't miss it. What makes lurking a better priority than anything else?

RangerCado: Tell me. What do you see in Jim's scumhunting that needs acknowledgement? Your vote is on him given this note.

Extend this to Wednesday please. Either people are busy due to Holidays or everyone's not in the mood for posting.

[Persus13]

Extend

Since I'm busy and it looks like Sinlessmoon's getting replaced, I'd like to have longer.

[Tiruin]

Extend

Since I'm busy and it looks like Sinlessmoon's getting replaced, I'd like to have longer.

wat.
It's a 2 on you, 3 on Sin.
What's the last bit about?

[Tiruin]

EBWOP

All of his posts (all four of them!) were on day one. So, yes, he's lurking. On that we all agree.

He's not been replaced yet, however, which leads me to believe that he's not entirely inactive, just not active in thread. That, to me, does not rule out night actions and/or scum chat.

So, maybe cultural differences again here, but since I am assuming the likelihood of activity that the Town can't see, I call it active lurking.


Regardless, semantics around what he's doing or not doing aside, what he's not doing is helping the Town. Which means, by proxy definition, he's helping the scum. Inactive Town is one step above scum, and barring a better target, needs to be eliminated. So if anyone's willing to step up and be that better target, then by all means, open your mouths (figuratively) and say so. Give me a reason not to vote for Sinlessmoon and I will.

Didn't see this as the reason. >_>
Anyway, valid point. In his posts, you see a huge difference between December3~6 posts. Inactive Town however, is a vague point. How do you know if he's town?
Seems that you see the lack of any better target than a lurker, perhaps?
Problem: He 'admits' to lurking. With the copious use of the ''.
A taunt if I ever saw one, but he seems to be more a person of brevity than not. His playful style (reminiscent of TolyK. OK. There. I said it. It annoys me to hell and beyond.) drops at his last post, which is backed up by empirical evidence.
He posted once more on December 12. He vanished soon after.
Either its his tactic of escaping forever and 'trololoolololol town won't lynch me', or just being stoopid.
I doubt he's scum given how he presents his everything. And the notion of malevolent lurking (...lazy. So lazy. is what I see more), while seemingly proven by his priorities, could also be better explained by his...
...
Lack of everything, really.
All his posts speak of brevity, with totally nothing in em.
Bad scum, if he's scum. Really poor bad scum. I doubt a 'newbie to the forum Mafia' would go on that sort of behavior as it speaks twice-well against the person playing.
Edit my query to you: What is your total reasoning on all his posts and his behavior?

[Tiruin]

Gah.

All of you have yet to do any full scum hunting today! Your all focusing on offing the most inactive player right now who I believe should have already been put on the replacement list, and aren't doing anything else.

Look and tell me how many people have posted recently. There's you, me, makeinu, Jim, and SBC. I have a target I want to scumhunt, and I've mentioned people I think are scummy before. But they aren't posting either. If I ask someone questions and they don't respond, how can I scumhunt them? I don't have strong scummy feelings about anyone who is posting (although I just got some on you), and my main target, who I VOTED, has yet to respond. I have tried to scumhunt, but they haven't responded to me, and I'm getting annoyed by dead weight.[...]

...Really? You didn't ask me anything as far as I see.

I find it hard to ask good questions to people. So often I just see what they post and look for stuff I take issue with or wish to comment or question on.

I believe you believe I'm not your suspect, right? Given how you qualified those people and then this note, I'm pretty curious about your prioritizing. Bolded for emphasis--wasn't I dead weight earlier? I mean, you did suspect me as far as I remember--that one note on 'Tiruin voted Max D1. Suspicion.' seems to be a good note to start on.
You didn't drop me a line though. Not one question.

[Superblackcat]

I meant don't vote sin since he's going to get replaced.

Tiruin:
Ahh, I remember that post line... I think Max was being overly paranoid... I don't know what else to say. He got mad at someone for adding on to his question. Probably didn't have enough sleep like most Bay12-ers.

Extend

[Jim Groovester]

While I'd rather lynch scum suspects, we'll gain more information from sinlessmoon's death or replacement.

I made the case that Sinlessmoon is dead weight to town and should either be lynched or replaced. You have yet to prove me wrong and have actually agreed with me. How am I being stupid?

These are rationalizations of your vote on Sinlessmoon. Those are potential advantages of having him gone, but those are not the correct justification for your vote.

You should only vote somebody if you think they are scum. I do not get the impression that you believe this is the case. If you want to lynch him because he's dead weight, then that's scummy of you.

and he's asked people to vote Sinlessmoon

How about you tell me where I have done this, because I'm pretty sure I haven't.

and told Toaster that one of Sinless's posts could be construed as being Toaster's #1 scumtell if you looked at it funny.

How is Sinlessmoon saying he should stop lurking, and then lurk even harder, not an example of a failure to deliver promised content?

Obviously, but who, as of now, do you think killing would give you the most information. Or do you know who scum is?

Also, your list have not changed in the slightest?

Killing Tiruin or Toaster would give me the most information, because I find them hard to read. I don't currently suspect them but they are good enough players that this does not mean they aren't scum.

No, my list hasn't really changed all that much.

What you gave would be more a definition of lurking, and even then I wouldn't consider it lurking, I'd consider it MIA: Need to be replaced (Sinless) . Lurking would be actively watching this thread whilst not posting anything.

You read through the thread and you saw the enormity of Sinlessmoon's contributions so far. What do you make of him refusing replacement during the night?

Regardless, semantics around what he's doing or not doing aside, what he's not doing is helping the Town. Which means, by proxy definition, he's helping the scum. Inactive Town is one step above scum, and barring a better target, needs to be eliminated. So if anyone's willing to step up and be that better target, then by all means, open your mouths (figuratively) and say so. Give me a reason not to vote for Sinlessmoon and I will.

Even shitty town should not be lynched.

Do you suspect Sinlessmoon?

Jim: Points on people missing questions, why don't you link them to said questions to preferably aid the process of communication?

I was being dumb when I accused RangerCado of dodging my questions.

At this point of time, given Sin's activity rating, what is your prediction of him and the current votes? As in, does he seem like a good 'bandwagon' to justify your vote on?

He's probably a non-player.

But a non-players who refused replacement during the night.

Everybody's going nah we shouldn't kill him we should just wait for him to be replaced and I agree, but until he gets replaced, I am dead set on lynching him. Who knows, he might refuse replacement again for some reason, in which case, he is as deserving of being lynched as I've been saying.

As to your question, he is a good bandwagon because he can't say anything in his defense and he's already ultra hardcore mega lurking, so it's important to examine the people voting him and their reasons. E.G., Persus13 seems to be implying he should be lynched because he's dead weight to the town, which is a really scummy thing to say. I, on the other hand, am stating that the only reason he would refuse replacement during the night and otherwise do fuckall in the rest of the game is because he has a night action of some sort, and it's super scummy to only play the night game for reasons which I should hope are apparent.

Jim:
This may insult people. Me included. >_>

But it's funny because I call TheDarkStar myopic, and then Toaster repeats one of his questions in a huge font, so it's like Toaster's trying to get TheDarkStar's attention as if he actually were myopic and and and and and get it?

Anyway. Personal annoyance on my part aside:
Now for your vote. You seriously are picking on that one dude instead of anyone else, huh.
He can be force-replaced given his posts. And from what I glean on yours, you don't consider them all in detail other than the general 'he's gone.' note.

How am I supposed to consider nothing? He has posted virtually no content.

Both of you men: Why are you voting Sinlessmoon. I see nothing else on why you're doing so, and why you do so over anyone else given how Day 1 went out, with the only redeeming note being "nobody else asked you guys why."

If you don't see anything on why I'm voting him then you haven't looked through Day 2 hard enough.

He contacted Meph during the night and told Meph that he wouldn't need replacement. Don't you see the sinister potential here? Because I do, and I intend to vote him until he starts talking, he's dead, or he gets replaced.

Let's bring me into this matter. Why aren't you guys mentioning me--the absentee right next to that one dude. Surely my lack of stuffs present a conspicuous note, no? :O

I noticed but you're not one to completely disappear from a game. You have also posted more than five lines, which makes you automatically leagues ahead of Sinlessmoon.

I also notice that Imp hasn't shown up recently either, but I also know she's not one to completely disappear from a game either.

Is there any other players' activity you'd like me to make a note about?