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[TheOnlySolitaire]

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Okay thanks for the input - I kind of agree with you on the removal of Goblins and elves etc; It wouldn't feel like DF without them, which is why I was asking you, the people who play Adv Mode, how you would feel if they were gone if there were cultures who would do everything the Goblins/elves do. My current modded DF has all standard races, half the races I've mentioned in my OP and drow, orcs etc. Fantasy mods are everywhere though, history based mods aren't quite so prevalent.
on question 5 - it's not so weird when you consider that they can be taken out of the raws, removing potentially pointless clutter... I'm trying to gauge whether it's worth removing those attacks from weapons to make things ever so slightly simpler, with regard to the weapon attack interface.

So Rumrusher, would you say that, from Adv Mode, you want more opportunities to spark wars between civs, fight megabeasts and deities, and otherwise screw with a civs population?
I'm planning on expanding Adv Mode to have more opportunities like that, for example by making more (if not all) Noble positions, appear in the actual world - so you can hunt down a civs Champion, or their religious leaders (I'm planning to create positions for these, even if they are only placeholders) - Basically I want to mod in more ways to interact with the DF world as a player, but also for more ways the world can interact with itself.

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WOW, thanks Funk! That's really genuinely helpful!
The Black Knight will be a brilliant template for what I wanted to do with the weapon masters! Would you mind if I use that as a template then?

I've used the padded armour in Masterwork mod, not sure if they are the same stuff, but I'll look at balancing that once I get the entities up, for the moment I'm just researching civs for cultural stuff I can add, and working on weapons and armour, clothing  and balancing will be after that probably.

On their ability to block cutting attacks too well: Maybe the [STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL] token is causing that, I always thought that tag simulated the ability of chainmail to negate slashes and cuts. Would using [HARD] instead of [SOFT] help achieve the effect of padding without making it too good against slashes?
I realise HARD might do the same thing, but I assumed the METAL tags provided the material strength, so the LEATHER tags should keep the materials appropriately weak...

[fratze]

i use the flat slap where suitable, like on someones ears, since i imagine it to hurt really bad.

[Rumrusher]

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Okay thanks for the input - I kind of agree with you on the removal of Goblins and elves etc; It wouldn't feel like DF without them, which is why I was asking you, the people who play Adv Mode, how you would feel if they were gone if there were cultures who would do everything the Goblins/elves do. My current modded DF has all standard races, half the races I've mentioned in my OP and drow, orcs etc. Fantasy mods are everywhere though, history based mods aren't quite so prevalent.
on question 5 - it's not so weird when you consider that they can be taken out of the raws, removing potentially pointless clutter... I'm trying to gauge whether it's worth removing those attacks from weapons to make things ever so slightly simpler, with regard to the weapon attack interface.

So Rumrusher, would you say that, from Adv Mode, you want more opportunities to spark wars between civs, fight megabeasts and deities, and otherwise screw with a civs population?
I'm planning on expanding Adv Mode to have more opportunities like that, for example by making more (if not all) Noble positions, appear in the actual world - so you can hunt down a civs Champion, or their religious leaders (I'm planning to create positions for these, even if they are only placeholders) - Basically I want to mod in more ways to interact with the DF world as a player, but also for more ways the world can interact with itself.

hunting down a civ champion would just mark my character as a threat to the civ and end it there, what I want is, to cause civs to break out into a dispute over what to do with the incoming waves of migrants that I caused from raiding a local town and fooling them "that a band of elves did it thus the elves are at war with us." or just crush a town causing another town or say local site to be filled with peasants. I want to walk in as another adventurer and see the damage I did before that isn't just oh hey go kill this guy for he killed loads of us to loading up a town to see the marketplace become a bloodbath from the fighting that's still going on

[TheOnlySolitaire]

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hunting down a civ champion would just mark my character as a threat to the civ and end it there, what I want is, to cause civs to break out into a dispute over what to do with the incoming waves of migrants that I caused from raiding a local town and fooling them "that a band of elves did it thus the elves are at war with us." or just crush a town causing another town or say local site to be filled with peasants. I want to walk in as another adventurer and see the damage I did before that isn't just oh hey go kill this guy for he killed loads of us to loading up a town to see the marketplace become a bloodbath from the fighting that's still going on

Okay, if I understand you correctly, you like manipulating situations where your companions do the actual killing, starting a war/conflict between your companions civs and the civ of your 'victims', for lack of a better word, and then seeing the chaos that ensues. Or by forcing a sites occupants to flee to another site and cause friction with the current inhabitants.

I'm not sure how I can expand on that as, as far as I'm aware, what you're after is either already in DF, or is hardcoded and not possible to implement... (at least in this release, it might be different with the coming release)
 
If you do have a suggestion for how to improve it, please share, and I'll see if it can be done, or at least simulate it or something...


EDIT: I've found some tags that might make it possible for you to recruit a civs champion, so you could get a companion champion from civ A to fight target civ B's own champion, starting a war based on the outcome of that champion vs champion duel. If that works, it'd be easy to make it work with other positions, maybe find some other ways to interact with them...
 

[Funk]

Yes feel free to use them.

[Rumrusher]

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hunting down a civ champion would just mark my character as a threat to the civ and end it there, what I want is, to cause civs to break out into a dispute over what to do with the incoming waves of migrants that I caused from raiding a local town and fooling them "that a band of elves did it thus the elves are at war with us." or just crush a town causing another town or say local site to be filled with peasants. I want to walk in as another adventurer and see the damage I did before that isn't just oh hey go kill this guy for he killed loads of us to loading up a town to see the marketplace become a bloodbath from the fighting that's still going on

Okay, if I understand you correctly, you like manipulating situations where your companions do the actual killing, starting a war/conflict between your companions civs and the civ of your 'victims', for lack of a better word, and then seeing the chaos that ensues. Or by forcing a sites occupants to flee to another site and cause friction with the current inhabitants.

I'm not sure how I can expand on that as, as far as I'm aware, what you're after is either already in DF, or is hardcoded and not possible to implement... (at least in this release, it might be different with the coming release)
 
If you do have a suggestion for how to improve it, please share, and I'll see if it can be done, or at least simulate it or something...


EDIT: I've found some tags that might make it possible for you to recruit a civs champion, so you could get a companion champion from civ A to fight target civ B's own champion, starting a war based on the outcome of that champion vs champion duel. If that works, it'd be easy to make it work with other positions, maybe find some other ways to interact with them...

sorry but it's more like I want 40d town AI than people with special names hanging around town. the stuff I would suggest to improve advmode would be dipping into Dfhack or interactions.

[Timeless Bob]

It would be interesting to have the elves, dwarves and gobs be the first races in worldgen. They'd be immortal but also with no ability to procreate.  These would be the minions of the gods who actually schlupped the world into its present form - carved the mountains, made sure the rivers were "just so", ect...  When worldgen begins counting years, the elves and gobs get their holiday, but the dwarves are tasked with maintenance, which is OK, since they were made to enjoy industry anyway.  So a deity curse about "so and so profaned the temple of...", gets their immortality removed.
  The Gods aren't total asses though, so the immortal who is so cursed is transformed into a breeding pair of humans who may be mortal, but can have progeny.  After humans come on to the scene (of whatever culture is randomly spawned by the curse), we see the eventual decline of the immortals and the rise to dominance of the mortal cultures.  Here and there, on deserted islands or deep in the mountains may still exist a colony of elves, dwarves or goblins, but by and large the world is dominated by human cultures.

Depending on how long you run the worldgen simulation, the immortal races could all die out by the time its done.  It would be more interesting still if the deity curses affected humans in much the same manner, causing them to transform into nemesis creatures of their own, so that a very long world-gen might then see the end of the human civs as well.

[TheOnlySolitaire]

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I could kind of do that, but it almost certainly won't end up the way you would imagine. For example, I could make the non-human civs maximum age be infinite, and possibly remove the ability to have children. But doing so would most likely prevent them from ever having a site to call home in the first place.

I'll keep the idea in mind though, and maybe dig around for some way to make an imitation/simulation of it. I'm sure there would be a way to make the 'immortal' races less likely to survive long-term, and thus potentially leave behind abandoned sites as ruins etc.. 

[Linkxsc]

1) If you can think of any historical civs or mythical cultures that you might like to see in Adventure mode, please suggest them...

Can't really think of any that haven't been suggested already. If possible though you might make the different groups generate citys slightly differently. An example would by like my most recent fortress that's been going for a couple centuries. Started out with major aquifer problems, so I ended up building a massive surface fortress, later I realized that it was 2 steps from being Osaka castle. Though most adventuremode players probably don't search out the amazing architecture of towns and forts.

2) Do you spend much time playing adventure mode to hunt semi/megabeasts, titans etc?

Honestly only started getting into it a couple weeks ago after my travel laptop lost all ability to play my sprawling fortress. As the hunting megabeasts and such. All the time now after my character is reasonably strong. Thankfully, a visit to my castle netted me a nice artifact steel longsword (produced in like year 12, and now its almost ancient being in year 326) and I travel around playing like a Paladin character hunting the greatest evils of the land.

3a) Does attention to detail matter to you in adventure mode?

Not that extreme, but a little note here and there is nice. For example if you can do it, make it so greetings between other cultures are in their respective languages. Nothing too hard. Just like if you visit a Russian shop they greet you with "Dobro pozhalovat", A german place would say "Willkommen", and visiting Japan would net you an Iirashimase. Or something (don't sue me for spelling, sry I'm not a linguist)

3b) How would you feel about culturally specific weapon, clothing and armour variations, or would you prefer to play where the variations are limited for simplicity? (Ie one type of axe used by all civs)

As sad as it is most weapons are all the same, though the game does lack a broadsword, Heavier then a longsword, and thus slower, but more ability to knock an enemy off balance. And a good straight bladed spear, (glaive, naginata, volge) thats primary attack is a slash rather then a stab. But since the game doesnt model wide swinging attacks that could hit others, it's not that much more effective than a halberd. (if it did 2h swords would be much much better than they are now. Also weapon parrying needs to be worked on, though i think thats planned to go with the "fighting styles" in the future)

Last but not least is the sling, as a method to boost damage from simple rocks. If you've ever tried an "early" game (start before about year 50) arrows can be few and far between, so for combat most players train up their throwing, and just chuck weapons or rocks.

4) Should elves and goblins be removed if other races can fulfill their contribution to the DF world?

Nah leave them.

5) Do you ever use the pommel strike and blade slapping attacks with weapons?

All the time. Its actually the best way to train up sword, spear, and axe skills, because it can give you much more time to attack the opponent before they die. (ofcourse, make them lose their own weapon first)

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

6) Why do you play DF Adventure Mode? What is it, exactly or generally, that you like so much about DF Adv Mode?

Well initially because this laptop doesnt have to power in it to play fort mode (which I've played for several months) to excess, but really I find adv mode refreshing. Its kinda annoying early on when your characters worthless though, but its kinda fun to make a guy and think that you're affecting the future of this little world. After the next patch my general plan is to start a hero on year 5, and play him for as long as I possibly can. Then build a fortress over his grave and have hundreds of engravings to that hero.

I dunno though, it reminds me a lot of playing good ole Nethack. But the added bonus of being able to attack parts as needed just makes play so much more interesting. Like I said before I play my character like a "knight" or "paladin" of other games. Go from place to place destroying evil. And I even go so far as to not kill wild animals unless they attack me first (hundreds of wolves killed). When it comes to fighting humans and goblins, I try to break their arms or hands with sword slaps or shield bashes, and if possible, I just leave them injured, and leave. Really on this character I have only 20 humanoid kills for a person with 2 dead bronze colossai, hundreds of zombies/skeletons, and a couple dozen misc megabeasts (the giant iron badger with poisonous blood was particularly annoying, though his blood has proved useful.)




Long story short though, good luck on your mod. When it comes out I'll try it out.

[TheOnlySolitaire]

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I don't think I could control sites a great deal, as of next version there will only be cities, dwarven mountainhalls, dark fortresses and forest retreats. While that does give some variation, it's still going to be pretty standard for the most part.

But that fact does make me want to make use of the new retire feature of the coming release, and start different sites and retire them once they're suitably fleshed out and interesting, meaning I might end up doing sites like Japanese castles and Viking/Anglo-Saxon ringforts.. Of course, this would only be for a world save I'll include with the finished mod, but it would allow for people to really try something new and different, even though it would take me quite a while, at least I could use DFhack to make it a tad easier...

If I get the 'weapon-master' megabeasts I want to include in the mod working as intended, there will be more to hunt down as an adventurer. I'm also looking into expanding on the night creatures, and possibly were-creatures/vampires/undead (although, only after the other stuff has been finished).

I've recently looked at greetings, I need to get to grips with how they work and why there is so many included in Masterwork, but once I get my head round it, putting in culturally-lingual greetings and curses etc is one of the parts I want to expand, as language adds a great deal to the sense of immersion. For the most part though, they will speak English, so as to not leave people bewildered as to what has been said...

I disagree that weapons are the same - that said I'm actively avoiding throwing hundreds of new weapons with names that won't make sense to people unless they spent time researching weapons (Who here knows what a pinchangatti is? Very few I wager...). However, I will be including new weapons for each culture, probably with what sort of weapon they are after - ie 'Spatha sword' as an example - and possibly a short description.
They will handle differently - as while a Gladius and a Wakizashi are both short swords, they handle differently and are used differently; a Gladius being a predominantly stabbing weapon, and a Wakizashi being a slashing weapon.
I won't go overboard though, and I might just throw in a alternate 'simple weapons' version for those who just want one type of sword etc.
I'll look into making a sling, not exactly sure how to make it, but I'm sure I could make something with Adventurer Crafting Interactions...



If anyone has any suggestions for things not already mentioned, please let me know. I'm always looking for new ideas...

[Kay]

I don't know exactly what your stance is regarding mythological creatures, but it'd be neat if there was some sort of variant of giants called "Jötunn" or "Jötnar" something. Not all giants in norse mythology were evil, though (some even got married to the gods), so I don't know how that'd work.

Then you have the opportunity to add various beasties from other real-world civs, too, like the bajillion different sorts of Japanese creatures (Kappas, Oni, etc.) or European myths like the cockatrice. There's a lot of opportunity for "real world" creatures, though I think a lot of the classic ones are already covered by the game.

[TheOnlySolitaire]

I don't know exactly what your stance is regarding mythological creatures, but it'd be neat if there was some sort of variant of giants called "Jötunn" or "Jötnar" something. Not all giants in norse mythology were evil, though (some even got married to the gods), so I don't know how that'd work.

Then you have the opportunity to add various beasties from other real-world civs, too, like the bajillion different sorts of Japanese creatures (Kappas, Oni, etc.) or European myths like the cockatrice. There's a lot of opportunity for "real world" creatures, though I think a lot of the classic ones are already covered by the game.

Yeah, it's something I have a mind to add, but would need some time to get it to a point I would be happy with...
I have been looking into various mythologies, from mythical creatures both good and evil, to creation myths and even gods of various pantheons etc, and frankly, a LOT of the creatures would fit perfectly into DF's universe.
I just want to find a way to do so without there being weird crossovers, like Jotun showing up in the surroundings of Japanese and Chinese  sites. Although, now I say that, it does sound quite cool...

I'll be taking notes on various mythical creatures anyway, but if you guys have any creatures of legend and myth you want to see, please put them into a post (with a spoiler if its a long list), preferably with some links to a wikipedia page etc, and I'll try to make them/fit them into my mod.