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Author Topic: Darkest Dungeon II. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Wagon Life.  (Read 221163 times)

nenjin

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #675 on: October 15, 2015, 05:28:35 pm »

While I haven't started veteran runs....

My casualty rate is near zero. Usually I lose at least one hero in the first few weeks, then after that, none.

But it's entirely up to how far you want to push your group. Generally I'm abandoning runs before the 3rd or 4th room when it becomes clear I've gotten too much bad RNG in the opening fights and rooms to feasibly finish. Yeah, I could push on and sacrifice the heroes....but once a hero is level 2 or higher, I don't really consider them expendable anymore. Not to the degree I'll force a failing party through the rest of a dungeon run.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Neonivek

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #676 on: October 15, 2015, 06:24:27 pm »

I wish I knew now safe it was to continue after a certain amount of mental instability. I could have finished my first dungeon hands down.
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nenjin

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #677 on: October 15, 2015, 06:52:27 pm »

I wish I knew now safe it was to continue after a certain amount of mental instability. I could have finished my first dungeon hands down.

As long as you aren't getting Afflicted, almost any amount is bearable. Might put the hero out of action two weeks to recover the stress but that's about it.

Afflictions though will royally fuck you. They have cascading consequences, usually. Not only will a guy lose his turn, not only will they cause stress on other party members, they might waste someone ELSE's turn. Screw up your party order. Basically when I believe I'm a fight or two away from an Affliction (don't ever count on Virtues) and I'm not basically at the end of the run, I abandon unless I'm really hurting on gold or available heroes or w/e. But I try to keep my guys alive as much as possible. You can just zerg them at the dungeons too and that ends up being pretty effective, when you let go of caring about all but maybe 1 or 2 parties worth of guys. I try to keep my whole roster healthy and relevant.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

pisskop

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #678 on: October 17, 2015, 12:09:10 am »

For me, afflictions range from managable to a reason to leave.

Depending on the party composition, the dungeons harshness, the health/campng situation, and a reason/lack of to believe I can heal or manage the stress  I might see it as flavor or as a damning reason to bail.

Most afflictions do very similar things, mechanically, but abusive and masochistic characters do more damage, iirc.  Paranoid characters are fun to see.  Its the hopeless ones that piss me off.




Pedit:

an example in action:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We ran into more traps than enemies in the first day, resulting in a whopping 80 stress for the vestel.  And lets not dodge the damn things, lass . . . ::)

  Still, The plague doctor has something that saps her dodge, and they all teamed up on her so now she's abusive to the irrational vestel.  But we've had these for the last 5 or 6 fights, and the man-at-arms is doing awesome.  Doesnt even have stress resist on.

What I guess I mean is that affliction =/= run for the exit.  This was completely managable, abliet annoying.  Maybe a 4/10 for difficulty containing the affliction.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 07:08:45 pm by pisskop »
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Neonivek

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #679 on: October 17, 2015, 03:04:26 am »

I don't earn the cash to fix morale at the moment.
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pisskop

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #680 on: October 17, 2015, 10:18:30 pm »

The game crashed on the end of the quest on the week I had set the DD to open with my first actual run set for the DD.

:-\

Maybe because I need to set a rerward type?  Theres no rewarded family set?



Or, maybe I dont have any valid quests set for it.  duh.


Still need a second boss cluster.  4 more heroes?  Or a fake chthulu?

Theres also a mod to be had for the DD if one were to rebalance curios and make custom art for gather/purify quests.


pedit: the game did not appreciate me trying to mess with the quest ids and whatnots.  In fact, I found a way to glitch extra loot/family artifacts/monies/traits, without actually modding in extra rewards.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 11:43:11 pm by pisskop »
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

pisskop

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #681 on: October 28, 2015, 06:24:39 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Monsters with uncustomized corpses will grab the first pic they can for the corpse.  Also when I say your adventurer characters are OP I mean they roflstomp.  I set the monsters to the equivalent of lvl 1 for ugrades/skills/resilve level.  They roflstompin'.  Hound's Harry for MVP.
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

Stuebi

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #682 on: November 03, 2015, 09:42:00 am »

I'm still not happy with the Cove, balance-wise.

Firstly, it's the dungeon where you get the shield-upgradeparts. Which is usually the first thing I want to upgrade the Church and the Inn (Less cost, more heal). So it's a pain that the Cove just flat-out feels harder than other dungeons.

Second, I feel that it's just generally designed badly. On one hand, it has a couple of armored enemies where you're supposed to use DoT's. On the other, Fishmen have an extra resistance to bleed, making Blight the only really viable tactic against those armored fu*kers. It just baffles me, because no other dungeon FORCES you to use one specific damage type like that. Then we have Thralls. Whose Explosion-Attack can crit for upwards 20. On each Party Member. That's just flat-out lazy "Our game is supposed to be hard guise so just crank that damage up to eleven".

I had a run today where one of the Warrior-Fishmen (The ones with high protection and guard) guarded the Shaman. Since the guy can only really be downed by Blight, I had my Graverobber Blight him repeatedtly. But since it's a DoT, I was still looking at around 4 or 5 Turns (or even more) before he would die. In the end, the Fight almost took 20 rounds before I was finally able to down the guy and kill the shaman, who healed the warrior twice when he was close to death.

I also feel that the stress-inducing attacks got a lot stronger. Tempting Goblet, Stressful Incantation and the fishmen-variant gives 3-5 bars, sometimes even more. Again, I feel like this is just cheap difficulty. The game felt right before the Cove, where it was totally possible to get a really bad run, or a really good one, depending on RNG. And I was fine with that. Now it seems they just keep stacking more and more stuff against you to make the game feel even more unfair. And I'm not sure I like the change.
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English isnt my mother language, so feel free to correct me if I make a mistake in my post.

nenjin

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #683 on: November 03, 2015, 10:07:01 am »

You can thank all the "LULZ I USE 4 HELION" pros for the game being as hard as it is. They'd basically go to the forums and tell RH their game is too easy and so it's shit and "not a true survival rogue like."

And so the rest of us who still find the game challenging end up with stuff like the Cove.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

pisskop

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #684 on: November 03, 2015, 10:17:12 am »

The Cove is still being tweaked.

The difference between full light and full-dark is real, both in terms of stress and damage.

I do agree bleeding is on the weak side but almost every hero can cause it and Im sure there's a joke about fish not being red meat somewhere.

Their damage is on the hgher end in the cove, but that could end up being the/a gimmick of the dungeon.

I feel like the Cove is currently about as hard as other dungeons were on the earlier builds.


Presumably the reason 'cup of stress' is more damaging is to make them more of a threat.  Stress is only so important to manage *prioritize*.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 10:23:07 am by pisskop »
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

Sonlirain

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #685 on: November 03, 2015, 10:55:57 am »

Hmm my last run in the cove was kjinda tragic really.

I smashed my way to level 3 on most heroes without much of a problem.

Then decided to do the lingering bosses in the cove and warrens (flesh and crew) so i got a set of 2 greenhorns that went along with my 2 level 2 champs.

Entering the cove. Medium querst apprentice level.
4 fishmen pop up.
- hit highwayman. Critical.
- hit highwayman not critical but a high damage roll.
Highwayman is at deaths door.
- hit highway man from the back row with spearfishing.
Highwayman endures at deaths door.
- another hit on the highway man from the back row.
Deathblow.

God i love RNG and dickish AI.
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debvon

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #686 on: November 03, 2015, 01:07:22 pm »

Weird, been a while since I've played but I thought spear fishing could only be used from the back half to your team's back half while seaward slash could only be used from the front half to your team's front half.

I'm gonna do some 'covesplaining here so don't get too upset folks. It's really not as terrible as some people make it out to be. There's definitely a difficulty spike no doubt about it, but there are measures you can take to make it a lot less daunting.

First if all of your cove expeditions have failed try bringing a man-at-arms. Even if you stick him in the third row back. While the cove does have some high damage attacks they're all fairly predictable. Like I said earlier (and unless they changed it) seaward slash and spear fishing can only target one of two people depending on where the pelagic grouper is standing. Man-at-arms can usually intercept their attacks. Also, octocestus can only hit your front half, very predictable and easily blocked. Hell, if man at arms is in your front row you can intercept octocestus 100% of the time and just cure the bleeding. You can use rampart to stun something and get your man into position at the same time if he's in the third row.

Second, pelagic groupers and shamans are very fast and somewhat fragile. If you've got your team loaded down with -speed trinkets you're going to take an ass kicking at the start of every turn. Instead, take off those trinkets and put on any +speed ones you might have found (if they exist?). Bring bolster with your man-at-arms. If you get turns in before the groupers you can completely negate their damage for that turn by 1-2 shotting them.

Blight IS the better option for cove, bringing a plague doctor usually works out for multiple reasons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bleed resistance on fishmen just means not bringing a bunch of bleed abilities. "If it bleeds" on the barbarian is still good because of its range. Bleed is just a bonus and it still gets through despite the resist.

"So what you're saying is in order to clear the cove I HAVE to have a man-at-arms and a plague doctor?" Nope. Those two classes just shine there and do well with a lot of team comps. If you're struggling, try them out, bring useful abilities, get rid of your -speed shit so you have a chance of taking initiative over groupers and bring stuns. I believe stunning a pelagic guardian will bring down his guard on his ally. Crusader and barbarian are both capable of this, not just man-at-arms. You don't need dots to kill a guardian efficiently, they're meant to be beefy as hell and will take multiple turns to kill no matter what.

An upgraded occultist does well here with his barrage ability. He also pairs well with the plague doctor because of her ability to fix botched wyrd reconstructions if it's necessary. The arbalest is great because of her group speed buff from camping. She can also pick off shamans, prevent disasters with rallying flare (3 monsters in the cove stun regularly), and her bandage can be good with wyrd reconstruction but it takes up turns.

Finally just a general tip for people struggling: if you have stuns/intercepts and the only enemy alive is weak, predictable, or susceptible to stuns, drag out the fight to stitch your dying up. I know that the developers programmed a "countermeasure" to this scummy tactic, but it's really not that effective. If your team is somewhat relaxed yet almost dead you should be taking advantage of this.

But yeah fuck drowned thralls right in their bloated torso holes. That's the official strategy guide answer for those bastards.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 01:34:03 pm by debvon »
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Sonlirain

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #687 on: November 03, 2015, 01:41:34 pm »

Well it was like 2 weeks back so i'm not sure.
I was experimenting with a mobile highwayman build with duelist advance and point blank shot so i may have got hit with spearfishing and then advanced from the third row to the second only to be finished off with slashes.
Or i could just have a faulty memory. I just remember my highwayman getting downed really early in the fight without me being able to do much of anything about it.
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Stuebi

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #688 on: November 04, 2015, 09:52:38 am »

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I'm not decrying the cove as some incredibly bad "THE GAME IS NOW RUINED, RUINED I SAY"-thing. But making one Dungeon flat out harder than the other two just strikes me as bad design-choice.

After a couple attempts and getting my sh*t pushed in a couple times, I adapted. I've been doing fairly realiable runs with specific setups, mainly Occultist-Plague Doctor-Highwayman-Grave Robber. But after realizing that you get Crests fairly often in other dungeons, I've been completely skipping the Cove, because I know that I just have to throw more ressources at it to get trough compared to the other areas.


On a completely unrelated note. By god, do they need to increase Portrait Drop rate. I went to the Warrens thrice today, and got 4 in total. I mean, wtf.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize a team of adventurers. The Cove!
« Reply #689 on: November 04, 2015, 10:09:08 am »

I know that pain. I have a pile of useless crests. 80+ of those things while i have barely anything else. And i was specificially going to dungeons that are supposed to drop anything BUT the damned crests.
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