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Author Topic: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Game Over!  (Read 170254 times)

Imp

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #690 on: November 22, 2013, 04:41:15 am »

Huh.  NQT, I'm trying to be open minded and remind myself that maybe I have blinders on and maybe I'm misreading you.

But when you say stuff like:

Tiruin wants a no lynch- what does that tell you?

And I think, wait, Tiruin didn't say she wants a no lynch...

Then I go reread what she said:

What is your output on a No Lynch? I'm ambivalent (leaning on lynching)

And I read that and I think, yeah, Tiruin didn't say she wants a no lynch.

And then I wonder (again) where these blinders are that NQT says I'm wearing.  And I wonder why NQT keeps saying stuff like this, that seems so false to me.  Then I check myself for blinders again.  Then I wonder again.  Then I check again.  Then I just shake my head and say 'Gosh I hope he's Scum.... nothing else makes sense'.

You're all so blinkered that you're hardly even questioning one another.

Well, I assure you, I get really excited when people don't act in what I believe is a reasonable fashion.  Like before Toaster claimed, I was really, really anxious.  But I needed to hear him claim something, or choose not to claim anything, before I knew what questions to ask - because what he claimed (compared to what everyone else claimed and all known facts and all things posted) - that would actually change not just what I asked but also who I asked.

However, he claimed something that made sense with all known facts and so I just calmed right down and my questions along that line calmed down right with me.

Then I thought of a Plan, in case this doesn't end with NQT lynch.  A plan that might actually prevent any NKs, did allow some verifications, and hopefully has little room for error and is reasonable.

My only question about that plan was what do others think?

And if Toaster had refused to say what he intended to do N4 if we have one.... I'd have had a lot of questions about that, I assure you.

When Persus challenged something I thought was true - he corrected me about no starting S2 3rd parties, but actually was wrong.  So I corrected him.

Then he challenged that there's been no 3rd parties in S4.  So I corrected him again and asked what's up.

Then he claimed typo, and that he'd meant to say that S5 had no third parties.  So I corrected him for the third time, and pressed harder, What.  Is.  Up.

And got an answer.  Accepted it.

We disagreed, I think he was weird in his posts and thoughts.  But not likely to be Scum for it.  I'd feel about 60% better if at least one previous S game had no third parties.

However, this does, at least weakly, contradict your:
Imp, after this game we will talk about what is and is not a scumtell because you have a lot to learn. People disagreeing with you or finding your actions suspicious, even when you're town, is not a scumtell. (If it was, you'd all be scum!)

I agree with you, that what you say is a true thing to say.

I disagree with you, that what I am doing is interpreting when people disagree with me or find my actions suspicious as their being Scummy.

My case on Max was that -I- disagreed with him... my investigative results disagreed with his claim at least.

My case on Caz was that he felt wrong.  Slippery.  And gave me a feel that I didn't want to talk to him.  And that I realized he'd made at least one other person feel weird as well (when I'd thought he was being fine with everyone but me).

My case on Toony was that he was lurky, lazy, coasting, active lurking, refusing to evaluate information.

My case on you had 7 points to start, and not one of them included 'NQT disagreed with me' or 'NQT finds me suspicious'.

There's been.... about 4 newbies in this game.  Kleril, Caz, Persus, and myself.  I am.  I guess I am 'embarrassed' that of all of us newbies, you single me out to pick as someone to tell that I have a lot to learn, and that you'll talk to me after the game about what is and isn't a Scum tell.

I'm a brand new newbie, so of course I have a lot to learn still.  I guess it'll be a group chat though, since I'm not the only one here who think's you're scummy this game?  Maybe everyone who has voted for you needs a refresher too.

So I don't know what to think.  I feel kinda mocked by your words, I feel kinda tricked, maybe manipulated.  I feel kinda sorry for you too.  But outside of this game, I've felt huge respect for you, admiration for your play, and enjoyment of reading your posts.

Thank you for wanting to talk to me.  Thank you for playing beside me.  Interacting with you has been.... ahh, yes.

I learnt that talking to NQT is a rich and satisfying experience.

I guess I've got to get my blinders off though.  This game a lot of what you've said has looked seriously 'wrong' to me.  False wrong, manipulative wrong.  I tried cleaning my glasses, but that didn't help.

Maybe once we can talk person to person, outside of a Mafia game, maybe then you can straighten me out.  You clearly make it sound like I, specifically me among all the other newbies around, really need straightening out.

Tiruin, you going to tell everyone about the flavour you received when redirecting people? Persus and Imp and me all gave reasonable descriptions of what happened to us at night.

Oh yeah!  Reminds me.  I never chased Tiruin or Toaster for their flavor.  Thing was, I couldn't think of anything that might be in their flavor or not that might give me any clues at this point as to if my Wincon needs them dead or not (earlier in play that would -not- be the case) - and hopefully we're really close to the end of the game so we're about to see everyone's actual PMs.  So for anyone wondering, that's why I didn't chase that - I do chase flavor as a rule.

I also wonder who Toony tried to talk to last night, which grave he went to visit - since he was out of his house when Toaster killed him.  And I wonder if he tried to talk to Caz N2, and what information he -maybe- took to his own grave with.

And I now believe Cmega must have been a lone witch, and thus to have had a power.  I wonder if he got to use it, if it was the same 'observer' power as the previous lone-Town-witch game had or if it was something different, and who he picked to use it on if he did indeed use it.

So many questions.
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #691 on: November 22, 2013, 05:03:53 am »

Imp
And I think, wait, Tiruin didn't say she wants a no lynch...

Then I go reread what she said:
I someone brings something up and says they're ambivalent about it, then they want other people to think of the idea and maybe push for it. By proffering a mild disinclination for the idea, it appears more attractive for other people to take up. Or maybe she just wanted to discuss something she was unsure about? Who knows?

So I don't know what to think.  I feel kinda mocked by your words, I feel kinda tricked, maybe manipulated.  I feel kinda sorry for you too.  But outside of this game, I've felt huge respect for you, admiration for your play, and enjoyment of reading your posts.
I don't recall mocking you. Unless you're scum and you took my words directed at scum to heart? I've certainly not intended to trick or manipulate anyone. I've been very open about my methods and my reasons for acting.

Maybe once we can talk person to person, outside of a Mafia game, maybe then you can straighten me out.  You clearly make it sound like I, specifically me among all the other newbies around, really need straightening out.
Nah, I think the others are all terrible at this game too  ;)
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #692 on: November 22, 2013, 07:12:02 am »

This should be pretty easy for town now. If the hunter lives the night, just kill Tiruin in the day and if she flips town, kill imp. Job done. If there's any weirdness or maybe you've seen something in the older games that might suggest Persus or Toaster aren't as cleared as non-scum as they appear, then you might want to review people's old cases. If so, you're more than welcome to look at my complete spreadsheet of all the cases in the game so far (obviously this is intended for private use not persuasion, so I expect there'll be reasonable disagreement as to how I've characterised different cases). It should be immediately clear from anyone looking at the Combined sheet that scum and poor town players (like cmega) tend to pursue very few cases, whilst good town players (like Toony) tend to pursue lots of targets.
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Persus13

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #693 on: November 22, 2013, 07:57:52 am »

What if scum doesn't kill and instead does their job?
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #694 on: November 22, 2013, 08:04:36 am »

Persus
What if scum doesn't kill and instead does their job?
If you're all alive tomorrow then kill Tiruin and then if she doesn't flip scum have Toaster NK Imp. Simple.
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Imp

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #695 on: November 22, 2013, 08:15:35 am »

Persus
What if scum doesn't kill and instead does their job?
If you're all alive tomorrow then kill Tiruin and then if she doesn't flip scum have Toaster NK Imp. Simple.

Tell me more, NQT, about why you view Toaster as certain Town or harmless 3rd party?
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notquitethere

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #696 on: November 22, 2013, 08:34:16 am »

If he's a survivor then it doesn't matter- his best bet is to kill scum. It's not possible for him to kill everyone. Given Persus's flavour claim he's most likely a hunter. He's not scum as that would be ridiculous. But if you doubt it, and that's not unreasonable, then go with your plan to have him target Tiruin.
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Toaster

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #697 on: November 22, 2013, 09:01:26 am »

Here's how I see this playing out.

I don't see a flaw with this.


Shorten.



Oh yeah!  Reminds me.  I never chased Tiruin or Toaster for their flavor.  Thing was, I couldn't think of anything that might be in their flavor or not that might give me any clues at this point as to if my Wincon needs them dead or not (earlier in play that would -not- be the case) - and hopefully we're really close to the end of the game so we're about to see everyone's actual PMs.  So for anyone wondering, that's why I didn't chase that - I do chase flavor as a rule.

It's pretty short- I come from a long line of monster hunters, and was trained by my father as he was trained by his, etc etc.  I know how each kind of monster fights and the proper way to take out each one.
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Tiruin

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #698 on: November 22, 2013, 09:20:10 am »

Shortening it is, then. NQT..I like how you remained calm (yet ranted, though the feelings are understandable) and really like Max.

..Also I'm really wondering what the basis is on your avatar and the hooded man in that nice pixelated art there.

Oh yeah!  Reminds me.  I never chased Tiruin or Toaster for their flavor.
...My flavor is actually lacking. I tell you the truth here.

N1 - ...Flavor-flavor. I did in a flavor action. I read a nice book on light and sound. Then slept.

N2 - I went sneaky sneak sneak towards where Persus was staying, and then conjured an illusion which would lead straight to ToonyMan's house - instead of anywhere else from the path of the door forwards.

N3 - I move over to Toony's house, making sure I'm in the shadows as I do so and construct an illusion that paths itself to Persus' house.

I have not detected anything wrong with any of my doings upon result.



Imp - Something I note in your plan.
Quote
This plan doesn't test me - and I don't see any way it could - as I have no way to 'control outcomes'
But it does. That scenario leaves out if you are scum. If you are scum, you can stabbity stab Toaster and frame someone else, though I'm preferably sure that if I'm following those lines--I can't redirect Toaster on the path to his own house..

...Or probably I can and receive pretty amusing flavor given how the limits of my will go.



It's pretty short- I come from a long line of monster hunters, and was trained by my father as he was trained by his, etc etc.  I know how each kind of monster fights and the proper way to take out each one.
Y'know, this can pertain to the RL thing here. You were a monster hunter in Supernaturals prior. :P

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Tiruin

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #699 on: November 22, 2013, 09:31:01 am »

more than welcome to look at my complete spreadsheet of all the cases in the game so far
Google.
*seethes*
Why do you make me pull up my years-old account. :I
Now I'm wavering on wondering to wish to see whats in it or register a new one!
*shakes fist and pouts*
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #700 on: November 22, 2013, 11:47:19 am »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
notquitethere: Imp, Toaster, Persus13, Tiruin
Tiruin: notquitethere



Day has been Shortened. It will end at ~12 Noon Today (About 3 hours).
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Imp

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #701 on: November 22, 2013, 01:44:51 pm »

Imp - Something I note in your plan.
Quote
This plan doesn't test me - and I don't see any way it could - as I have no way to 'control outcomes'
But it does. That scenario leaves out if you are scum. If you are scum, you can stabbity stab Toaster and frame someone else, though I'm preferably sure that if I'm following those lines--I can't redirect Toaster on the path to his own house..

Either I or Perses could use a kill if we have one in the plan I have outlined.  Toaster -has- to use a kill (his claimed power) but no one should die from it and it'll be known if he doesn't (that's a test - proves he has the power... not that I actually believe he doesn't, but it is a test); Tiruin is forced to use her claimed power or die because she could not or would not (thus testing that Tiruin actually has the power, and proving she does or not - more importantly, it forces her to -not- use any other power, like the Scum kill IF she has it - note this does nothing to prove that she is Scum or not, her most rational path of action is identical no matter her alignment);  Perses's claimed power is also tested, and as Toaster said if it was a never-before-seen one shot and he isn't a knight then he doesn't make it, otherwise he is re-proved as a knight (but the goal in using him as the redirect-to target is to 'safely eat' Toaster's kill - allowing us to talk this through on D5 instead of putting a lot of power in one player's hands).

Tiruin actually has the most power in this set up, but because she should be able to control Toaster's kill target and because she should die if she doesn't, and because we have only one target who can eat that kill and not die, we know if Tiruin does indeed follow the plan.  I'd consider going off the plan on anyone's parts to be an indication that someone's anti-Town (for example, if Perses reports he was not attacked N4, then either Perses is lying or Toaster is... that nicely narrows the field.

What I meant when I said it doesn't test me is that plan doesn't do anything to prove that I'm a Fortune Teller.

The plan also leaves both Perses and myself 'free' to take any night action we can do.  I intend to inspect Tiruin, not from suspicion but because she'll be the first Illusionist ever inspected in an S game.  That's valueable data for future S games and though I really hope there ISN'T a N4 because D5 is going to be challenging to figure out...  I am going to be glad to have a night action to take that will add meaningful data to the collection of known information about S games (repeated investigations don't do anything but prove if a role's result could possibly change for different games or different roles of the same name - note that Witch probably is a role that can give more than one class of results - a witch with an investigative power (the one known Lone Witch) may not give the same classification as a witch that is a mason.

Good luck everyone!  I sure as heck hope we don't have to play through D5.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Imp

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #702 on: November 22, 2013, 01:46:29 pm »

more than welcome to look at my complete spreadsheet of all the cases in the game so far
Google.
*seethes*
Why do you make me pull up my years-old account. :I
Now I'm wavering on wondering to wish to see whats in it or register a new one!
*shakes fist and pouts*

It's information is extremely similar to the information which NQT has already discussed in the thread.  The format and lay out is different, being a spreadsheet, but there's nothing that I spotted that was out of place, weird, appeared to prove NQT innocent, or appeared to make NQT appear more likely to be Scum.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #703 on: November 22, 2013, 04:36:53 pm »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
notquitethere: Imp, Toaster, Persus13, Tiruin
Tiruin: notquitethere


  Your discussions over, you all feel the compulsion come over you again. Each in turn steps forward, and calls out their vote.

  notquitethere's name hangs in the air.

  He steps forward Calmly. "I have hidden nothing from you, friends. I remain a loyal Priest of our gods, and it is to them I now go. I wish you luck this night. Save our town from Evil!"
 
  He sits on the floor, and then slumps over.
 
  A great and Sonorus voice echos throughout the hall. "You have done well, my servants. Through your efforts I have awoken, and shall lead my people back to great glory!"
 
  The room begins to shake. The onlookers cry out in fear as great cracks appear in the wall. The shaking grows in strength, and people begin falling over.
 
  Imp, the Fortune Teller stumbles backwards and is caught by one of the guards.
 
  Persus13, brave Knight though he is, cannot stay on his feet and falls to his knees, clutching the floor.
 
  Tiruin and Toaster, however, have no such difficulty staying on their feet. In fact, they don't seem to feel the shaking at all. They watch, smiles on their faces, as the facade of the wall crumbles. Behind the marble is a darker, older stone. Stained with ancient soot, you can see the face of the Old God carved into the stone. Its eyes stare out at all of you, a deep purple light emanating from them.
 
  As the shaking stops the crowd bows down in obeisance to their returned god.
 
  The voice speaks again, this time clearly from the face on the wall. "Tiruin, my faithful Charismatic Cultist, I commend you on your leadership. You have done well, and you shall be rewarded for your hard labors."
 
  "Toaster, Monster Hunter, though you joined our cause a bit late you have still done well for us. You will serve as a sign of Strength for our people! A reminder of what they once were, and what they will be again!"

   
 
  In the years to come this once peaceful and rich kingdom took up arms in conquest, as their ancestors had done so long ago. One by one the surrounding lands would fall, and fires of Sacrifice burn bright once again.




And that's game. Ended slightly late because my boss took the group out for lunch.

I do apologize for the Charismatic Cultist slipping in. I really had thought that it'd shown up before, especially since it has been in the role list ever since the first game. It's a rather nasty role to have in a game where people aren't expecting it as a possibility.

This game also brought home to me that a rule change I've been pondering needs to happen. Namely, that Monster Hunters can never be truly Converted. So the conversion attempt on Toaster should have killed him instead. But since I was specifically avoiding changing rules this time...we ended up with a very nasty situation for town starting from Night 1 onwards. Although, to be fair, I had balanced the game assuming that either the Exorcist (Jim) or Warlock (Toony) would be the one converted. The Monster Hunter being the first person needing replacement was a bit of extra bad luck for the town.


Cult Chat

Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Day 4 brings dark news
« Reply #704 on: November 22, 2013, 04:39:59 pm »

Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)



Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)



Spoiler: Night 3 (click to show/hide)
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