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Author Topic: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress  (Read 867546 times)

Capntastic

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1920 on: November 02, 2016, 11:36:23 pm »

modern gender roles

People have been bi, gay, trans, etc, through the entirety of human culture
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sluissa

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1921 on: November 02, 2016, 11:53:40 pm »

@Scripten

I never said they weren't allowed to print the article. But it's distasteful to me. It makes me not want to read anything else from them and I might not after this. It's basically the worst possible defensive position to claim "free speech" about something being said.

They're free to state their opinion and I'm free to call their opinion stupid and not worth listening to.

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The Scout

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1922 on: November 02, 2016, 11:55:01 pm »

So a Let's Player by the name of Rufert has been streaming some Rimworld. Version .14. Apparently there's a mod that makes floodplains with proper tides? Searching the forums hasn't led me to any similar mod and the lazy mong doesn't have a modlist. Does anyone have the slightest clue what the mod is?
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thvaz

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1923 on: November 02, 2016, 11:57:16 pm »


It's a subject that's going to get a lot of people angry for basically no reason and end up spreading the link around to rant about it on one side or another. That's click-bait.

Did they do the whole, "10 ways doctors don't want you to know about losing weight that this average house-wife found out." thing? No. But they did pick a subject that's well known to be inflammatory and then used language which implied a lot while not actually accusing directly.

And if they had outright stated anything that people are assuming they implied, the torches would have burned twice as bright. What really bothers me about these claims that many are making, is that they are actually very much anti-freedom of speech. This article has every right to exist. The author did not, as you stated yourself, hide her intentions behind a vague title, nor did she couch it in a long string of gifs or content cut from other sites. It is an independent work with actual depth that, obviously, makes people talk and think. Wishing it did not exist because of the premise is entirely against the spirit of free speech.

Freedom of speech was respected already. The article was made public. and Freedom of speech doesn't equal as being above criticism.

Does the fact that no bi men exists in the game implies that he believes no bi men exists? You surely use a lot of circulus in probando.

It's okay, you can just use "circular logic". The point isn't necessarily what the dev believes (though he did talk at some length about his anecdotal evidence for disbelieving in bi men) but rather the result of the unconscious bias in the code he wrote. As I said above, there are always biases behind peoples' actions. Interpreting them and working on figuring out whether they support or hinder the well-being of others is important. Even in games.

The reason for the article is an unconscious bias, but the developer should suffer the consequences of these "unconscious bias" even though they were imprinted on him by society? Even if the article was somewhat reasonable (in tone, if not in intention) many people now say they won't buy the game, or that the developer is a homophobe or biphobe (from which there isn't any piece of evidence, as believing they are rarer than gay men doesn't exactly configures hate or phobia). How far should we go to fight these bias, how many innocent people should we sacrifice to make things right?

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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1924 on: November 02, 2016, 11:57:42 pm »

Also shoutout to the new mod that adds bridges and terraforming! an finally make a medieval/themed port city!
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Aseaheru

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1925 on: November 03, 2016, 12:02:01 am »

 Grand. Which mods are these?
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1926 on: November 03, 2016, 12:20:04 am »

Grand. Which mods are these?

sld--bridges... or something like that.

EDIT: Easily found in the steam workshop weekly top 3 section for those of you who don't scroll down on your steam pages at all.
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Neonivek

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1927 on: November 03, 2016, 01:34:28 am »

Quote
Freedom of speech doesn't equal as being above criticism

Don't worry... They are on it. Soon that will especially be what it means.
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Garden Gnome

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1928 on: November 03, 2016, 01:55:01 am »


Does the fact that no bi men exists in the game implies that he believes no bi men exists? You surely use a lot of circulus in probando.

It's okay, you can just use "circular logic". The point isn't necessarily what the dev believes (though he did talk at some length about his anecdotal evidence for disbelieving in bi men) but rather the result of the unconscious bias in the code he wrote. As I said above, there are always biases behind peoples' actions. Interpreting them and working on figuring out whether they support or hinder the well-being of others is important. Even in games.

From Tyan Sylvester's post on rps:
"Of course I’m sure bi/bi-curious men exist, but the research and what I’ve seen supports the conclusion that they’re rarer than bi women. Conversely, gay women seem to be rarer than gay men.
Nor am I an expert in all this; the game simply attempts a very rough approximation of some patterns from real life. In truth I never did a full analysis of every possible situation this code could run into. I’m sure various numbers are wrong. But, it’s functional and gets the job done." -Tynan Sylvester


No he talks about why he thinks bi men are rarer than bi woman. He doesn't disbelieve in them.

I don't get what it is about these topics that cause people to either intentionally or unintentionally cherry pick/misrepresent the words of others to support their arguments, but it happens all~ the time its crazy.

People need to take a step back, and really read what others are writing.

edit: Also there is a thread on reddit about this topic where the dev has answered questions and provides some more context to everything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/5arvbq/how_rimworlds_code_defines_strict_gender_roles/
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 02:26:03 am by Garden Gnome »
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IronyOwl

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1929 on: November 03, 2016, 02:54:39 am »

Spoiler: Scripten (click to show/hide)
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Tiruin

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1930 on: November 03, 2016, 03:05:15 am »

One big note about making (or really not making) additional conclusions or overanalysis about the article (early as it is), is that the relations are being taken out of context at few points ._.
Like, there's nothing aggravating to gender here or anything otherwise (if in doubt, see Capntastic's note and post above).
And there would be a tiny bit more notice to the placeholder that everyone is attracted to everyone else purely by physical characteristics (erase the idea of 'beautiful' because that's a trait for everyone :P Same as 'annoying voice' or 'abrasive' or other stuffs)

That said, query to mods ._.

Is there any medieval mods that work with...the EdB Prepare Carefully mod? I tried out the Medieval Times mod (by Vindar) and it doesn't seem to work together :<
(All I'd like is preparing my colonists for a fun medieval time :P)
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Yoink

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1931 on: November 03, 2016, 04:29:23 am »

Yeah, regardless of your stance, politics being suddenly dumped all over a game like a big bucket o' stinking rank fish guts and disrupting normal enjoyment of and conversation about it (from an external source, especially) is rather unpleasant.
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Neonivek

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1932 on: November 03, 2016, 05:31:09 am »

Yeah, regardless of your stance, politics being suddenly dumped all over a game like a big bucket o' stinking rank fish guts and disrupting normal enjoyment of and conversation about it (from an external source, especially) is rather unpleasant.

That is the world we live in now.

Because Rimworld represents all gay people.
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Retropunch

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1933 on: November 03, 2016, 05:37:50 am »

I think this mostly just angers me because RPS knew exactly how this would pan out. It's happened so many times before, and they're at full risk of messing up someones direct income just to get a few clicks. More than that, I don't buy the 'we don't cede editorial control' because, as Ty pointed out, they could have reached any number of agreements that didn't lead to conflict of editorial. His view could have been incorporated but not quoted directly, or Tyler could have been given the choice to give a short statement that wouldn't be chopped up. I know a few people in media that do exactly that if their subject is worried about being misquoted.

But that's not a story. I fully believe that RPS knew if they did include a full quote it'd sink the story, as no dev is going to turn round and say 'yeah, it's like that because I feel women are x and men are y' - he'd have said 'no it's a work in progress' and it'd just stop there. Sure, they could say 'Rimworld hasn't yet modelled the entire gamut of sexual-social responses' but that's literally the end of story.

Really though, it's his story and he doesn't have a requirement to model anything he doesn't want to, or model it in a socially accurate way. It's like turning round to the DCSS development team and say 'why have you not modelled the ability for my male character to have a gay relationship with Sigmund? Do you hate gay people? Do you not believe they are real? THIS IS A SCANDAL'
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Neonivek

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1934 on: November 03, 2016, 05:44:05 am »

Ohh yay... He is the Mojo.com of social commentary

Completely inaccurate clickbait with no real editorial integrity.

I honestly thought this was just a random conversation that started up.
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