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[Squill]

Squill, your backpedaling in your most recent post terrifies me.

I need you to state your mind, and when your mind changes, I need you to state why.  I need to understand your reasoning, period.  That means you need to say enough of it for me to follow it well enough to understand it and when it changes, you need to identify how and what changed your mind.

You ranked the four other players besides yourself in terms of Scumminess and somewhat explain why we are ranked so.

You vote for me, but at no point do you say I'm your top Scum pick, unless we want to use your vote as saying that, and the fact that you DO say who your second and third pick are, then your scummiest pick is either me, who has your vote, or bsnott, who you say " I had little on Mr. Zero, and bsnott hasn't posted much yet. While bsnott doesn't seem excessively town, he also doesn't seem too scummy. This bothers me, and I hope he posts more." and you list him last, after 2nd scummiest, after 3rd scummiest.

@Imp:I think it probably has something to do with the fact that every now and again, I post only because the alternative is not posting. Whether I just had a bad day or whatever, I sometimes don't make the best posts.
But the thing about you is, in my view, your intentions are so difficult to read. I am near constantly switching between your posts as extensively detailed and thorough attempts to scumhunt, and veiled threats. It seems like no one has really challenged you a whole lot, and if you want to many of the less active players would gladly follow your lead, or risk getting lynched themselves. It irritates me that I can see two different possibilities of your posts, but have so much trouble discerning what it is.

Now that more people are active, though, I am feeling a bit better about this.
I can't make an incredibly accurate list of my scum/town picks, because I have a tendency to change them. But for right now, here it is:
1. bsnott: My main problem is that I really have nowhere to go with him. Mr. Zero was fairly quiet and had a strange vendetta against SBC, but other than that I really have nothing. @bsnott: How do you think that you can affect this game? Do you believe that you will play, or just fall into silence? I am going to vote on you until you give some answers.
2. Imp: For reasons mentioned above, mainly intentions that I can easily see going either way.
3. Pufferfish: While Rolepgeek would have been my second pick, Puff is a lot better. I think that, to be quite frank, RPG was just a little bit rude.
4. Tiruin: This is the pick that bothers me most. While Tiruin is almost as hard to read to me as bsnott, I am fairly convinced that what I have seen is town. This brings up another issue: Tiruin is probably much more experienced than any of us. If he is scum, we will have a hard time finding out.

[Tiruin]

4. Tiruin: This is the pick that bothers me most. While Tiruin is almost as hard to read to me as bsnott, I am fairly convinced that what I have seen is town. This brings up another issue: Tiruin is probably much more experienced than any of us. If he is scum, we will have a hard time finding out.

[Firstly: She.
Secondly: My post to you would come soon. Same to Imp given the workload I have. Said post relates first to all posts before Reply #434]\
^IC voice.

Thirdly: I'm an IC. If I was scum, I'd be aiming to teach on exacts what scum would really really do--both in pertaining to their wincon and in following their wincon, what to do in order to achieve such (wherein you should see the concept in the context and not the exact words).

[Squill]

4. Tiruin: This is the pick that bothers me most. While Tiruin is almost as hard to read to me as bsnott, I am fairly convinced that what I have seen is town. This brings up another issue: Tiruin is probably much more experienced than any of us. If he is scum, we will have a hard time finding out.

[Firstly: She.
Secondly: My post to you would come soon. Same to Imp given the workload I have. Said post relates first to all posts before Reply #434]\
^IC voice.

Thirdly: I'm an IC. If I was scum, I'd be aiming to teach on exacts what scum would really really do--both in pertaining to their wincon and in following their wincon, what to do in order to achieve such (wherein you should see the concept in the context and not the exact words).

Motherfuck. Sorry, I now specifically remember thinking earlier, "Okay, Imp and Tiruin are not he's."

[zombie urist]

Day ends Monday November 11th 9PM PST. One week from today.

Imp -
squill -
bsnott - squill
Pufferfish - Tiruin
Tiruin -

Not voting - bsnott, Imp, Pufferfish

0 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed

[Gentlefish]

Imp:

How caught up are you on your readthroughs?

Mostly. I read through Day One and then everyone's last ten posts since before my joining. And all of RPG's posts, which got me through most of it as I read the replies as well.

I think I've got a fairly good grip on the matter, at least especially on how RPG was being a dill hole. I'd seriously almost call it a flame war. There wasn't any scumhunting there. On both sides, I really have to say. The votes there didn't have much weight for me when it came down to it. Going back through it I believe I've read the majority of this thread and I've got a general idea of where things stand.


Also there was Mr. Zero's vagueness with literally everything which really was weird. I don't like that. How BSnott takes his role I'll have to find out.

I don't understand what you're asking about, ask again another way?  Include who is hunting, what you mean by a hunt, and what you mean by co-ordination.  Or make any of those definitions clear enough so the rest falls into meaning by context.  Again, it's possible I'm going to request to withhold my answers until you're at least mostly done with the readthrough.

Take the role positions left and attempt to parse them out. I ask for you two, as I said, because you are the most active. Recently, anyway. Therefore, the most likely to get a lot done.

@Imp:
Sounds like you're pretty curious about Tiruin. Could I ask you to sum this feeling you have about her in a few sentences and links to quotes?

@Tiruin:
Yeah questions! That's how cases are solved. What's your defense to Imp's accusations? there's tossing about the phrase "WRONG FOCUS". Do you believe you had the "WRONG FOCUS"?

[Imp]

Puff:

I know you haven't read much of D2, but there's a lot of interaction there between myself, Rolepgeek, and Deathsword.

When you can, would you give that second a look over and tell me if you feel like Deathsword is trying to defend Rolepgeek, if Rolepgeek is trying to defend Deathsword, if they're both trying to defend each other, or if neither's defending each other, to your eyes?

Take the role positions left and attempt to parse them out. I ask for you two, as I said, because you are the most active. Recently, anyway. Therefore, the most likely to get a lot done.

Oh!  Yes, but it better not be just me and him doing so.  We're just two players - there's just two Scum.  Would you be comfortable with me and him 'figuring out who is what alignment'?

Personally, I'm going to be extremely uncomfortable if we cannot get all 5 of us talking - though I'm willing to be patient for a bit longer.  People need time to get caught up reading (maybe still), and Tiruin at least has some major real life stuff of some sort going on (I know from her posts in other threads), which delays her participation.  If necessary, we can keep extending.

When all 5 of us are talking, it's important to not forget that two of us have a goal of trying to make sure everyone comes to a wrong result.  We're NOT all 5 going to agree, that's for sure.  But I think examining the differences of that discussion will be most enlightening.

As for myself, I don't intend to ask you to evaluate much about Rolepgeek.  I'll be asking you to evaluate us four - the same as I'll be asking everyone, evaluate everyone but yourself.  (explain yourself, that can come up too, that's part of scumhunting.  But it's not productive I don't think to ask someone what the odds they give on themself being Town is).

@Imp:
Sounds like you're pretty curious about Tiruin. Could I ask you to sum this feeling you have about her in a few sentences and links to quotes?

You can, and I could do it (and already have, at more than one point in the history of the thread), but I'm going to hold off doing so again right now.  What matters most is not how I felt (which I believe she understands) but what my concerns are, and especially how she answers them.  Expect me to be quite willing to discuss how I have come to feel about her when the time is right - it'll be after she's answered and possibly after there's been some discussion past that point.

Squill:

Veiled threats, the sort that you see in my writing, do you believe those are exclusively Pro-Town behavior, Anti-Town behavior, or a mixture of both?  If it's a mixture, what's the ratio approximately seem to be?

A factor that affects now, which didn't before (in case you see me as a bully or whatever else bad, be I Town or not) - we have no room for a mislynch.

If I am Town, or if I want to appear to be Town, I can't 'vote someone to push them around' in Lylo - at least I don't think I can.  A mislynch ends the game, and I promise you, the only thing I care about now is figuring out who the most probable Scum are, getting the closest to majority agreement possible about those picks (so it doesn't matter -who- the Scum kill at night), and attempting to win the game with the best odds possible.  'If I like someone or not' or 'If I like someone's behavior or not' - there's no room for any 'threats', involving votes at least.  And if we can't get majority agreement on who's Scum and who's Town - Town is sunk.

When you say "It seems like no one has really challenged you a whole lot", what sort of challenge do you mean?  That I've not been adequately questioned and discussed with so attempts can be made to judge my reasoning, motives, and intentions?  That I've not been put under much pressure this game?  That I've mostly been left alone to do as I please?

Now that more people are active, though, I am feeling a bit better about this.

Me too.  I think we're going to need all 5 of us to get through this.

I can't make an incredibly accurate list of my scum/town picks, because I have a tendency to change them.

That's fine.  I just would like you to keep us posted on when and why they're changing, what you noticed or realized or whatever caused the shift.  Even if you're the sort of player who has mood shifts and your evaluation changes whenever your moods change, not because understanding or reality has changed, your patterns of thought as a player are useful in attempting to determine your intentions.

[Squill]

Squill:

Veiled threats, the sort that you see in my writing, do you believe those are exclusively Pro-Town behavior, Anti-Town behavior, or a mixture of both?  If it's a mixture, what's the ratio approximately seem to be?

A factor that affects now, which didn't before (in case you see me as a bully or whatever else bad, be I Town or not) - we have no room for a mislynch.

I think veiled threats might have been a poor choice of words, but I think you get what I mean. I think that you're the most aggressive player in the game, which is both good and bad. Good because it probably puts pressure on scum, but bad because it intimidates people from voting on you, out of fear that you, as an aggressive player, will turn on them. This is not to say that you are definitely or even probably scum, it's just to say that no one has seriously scumhunted against you yet. So I want to ask you: Do you think that there can be a thing as too aggressive in this game? Do you think that it is possible that, by being very aggressive, to deflect scrutiny by means of intimidation?

[Imp]

pfp - Zombie, we need prod for bsnott please.

[bsnott]

1. bsnott: My main problem is that I really have nowhere to go with him. Mr. Zero was fairly quiet and had a strange vendetta against SBC, but other than that I really have nothing. @bsnott: How do you think that you can affect this game? Do you believe that you will play, or just fall into silence? I am going to vote on you until you give some answers.

I know exactly how I can affect this game. We're in lylo right now, and that means that every vote counts for a win. I haven't been to active lately, I know this. In all honesty, I've been playing GTA V, so I do suppose I'm being lazy. So far in my playing of Mafia I've come to understand two things. This is a game about convincing others of things. The second thing I've gotten is that you need to be able to back up what you are trying to convince of people.

Let's just take a look at this. If I happened to be scum, I'd need to convince others to vote with me and try to pick out the highest value targets out of the crowd, while attempting to keep my partner up. I'd need to try not to lurk too much, but not get so far involved in conversation that something I said was taken the wrong way, which would end up in my demise.

If I happened to be a townie, I'd be horribly misinformed. I'd be sitting in a dark room with screaming faces. I can choose to get involved in the conversation, seeing how much my word counted in regards to the rest of the players. I'd need to somehow convince other players about my status as townie, and only hope that they don't think I'm trying to psychologically undermine the team. I want the win just as much as any of you.

Basically, what I need to do right now is prove myself to you guys. I'm not sure exactly how you guys have gotten that I have been acting scummy. Then again, I am a horrible scumhunter, so it is probably something far deeper than my knowledge can reach. How can I prove myself to any of you?

[Imp]

bsnott:

Don't forget we need you.  There's only 5 of us - we need every one of us that happens to be here in Lylo, originals and replaces.  Do play your other game, but also check in with us please, an absolute minimum of once a day - and that's after you've caught up.  Until you are caught up, we need you to also get caught up on the thread, please.

How much of the thread have you read so far?

How well do you feel you understand of what you have read?

If you haven't read it all/most of it, how willing are you to read more?

Once you have read most of it, are you willing to try to analyze what you have read and attempt to rank players (excluding yourself) in terms of their probability of being Scum in your opinion?

You may well find in the process of doing what I ask above that you do have questions to ask.  You may also find that the process of forming and sharing your opinions helps others form and share their opinions of you.

How can I prove myself to any of you?

That's only partially your job to do.  It is also partially our job to do/help you do/hinder your doing.  I have an answer to your question, but I also have a reason for not discussing it yet.  I need Tiruin's answer first.

[bsnott]

I'll get to reading that right now.

[Tiruin]

Response coming in ~8 hours at worst. ~4 hours at best. Give or take an hour or so. 

[...]I need Tiruin's answer first.

{If said answer towards bsnott's query can be given, and if it doesn't factor in to what kind of response on what your target would say, give it in advance or give partial details so to continue the train of thought others are giving you...unless that is their only question.

Sorry for late response!}

[Imp]

I'll get to reading that right now.

Thank you, hugely.  You are one of us and we need you.  Even though you were not here at the start, you're here now and we can only go forward, not back - but we need you to have that history, so we're not blank nothings to you.  The players that were replaced are gone - but their roles were here and played.  Therein are clues.  We need your ideas and observations too.

Response coming in ~8 hours at worst. ~4 hours at best. Give or take an hour or so. 

Totally acceptable, to me at least.  If you even need longer than that, you have it.  Long as its coming.  You're one of us, and we need you.

[Tiruin]

Response coming in ~8 hours at worst. ~4 hours at best. Give or take an hour or so. 

Totally acceptable, to me at least.  If you even need longer than that, you have it.  Long as its coming.  You're one of us, and we need you.

Yeah, I'm actually having fun here with you guys..and am really shamed on my lacking ability to perform due to hindrances. >.<
And thanks. Will divide and link via spoiler and url.

[zombie urist]

Day ends Monday November 11th 9PM PST.

Imp -
squill -
bsnott - squill
Pufferfish - Tiruin
Tiruin -

Not voting - bsnott, Pufferfish, Imp

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