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[zombie urist]

Tiruin's replacing in for Deathsword. Technically she has access to deadchat but there's not too much stuff there so I think its ok this time. I will be creating a new deadchat for new dead people.

  Imp
  Squill
  Rolepgeek - Imp
  Superblackcat - Rolepgeek
  Mr.Zero
  Deathsword
  Darvi - Superblackcat

  Not Voting: Darvi, Deathsword, Squill

Rolepgeek and Mr.Zero have asked for a replacement!

Extend - 0/3
Shorten - 0/4

I'm unvoting for Mr.Zero since he's not playing, but I'll keep Rolepgeek's since he's semi-active.

[zombie urist]

zombie urist, what's your decision about our game?  No matter what, someday its scumchat and deadchat are going open for all to view, right?  I'm really interested in their contents, even if this BM game goes the way of the few others which were simply stopped in the middle, their number reused a bit later with a new start.

All QT's will be available after the game.

Can we put this game on hold until people can play? Currently 3 players are active.

I'm trying my best not to do that since it'll be much harder finding a time that's convenient for everyone. Also people will forget their reads and such.

[Imp]

Hrm.  This game again.  *gearshift*

So, Tiruin.

Need time to catch up on the thread?  I'll support anyone's requests for an extension at this point.

Already caught up on the thread?  What do you feel should be said by you at this point, you player and you {IC}?

I'll have less generalized questions for you after I read your answer(s) to that one.

Superblackcat

You have posted.  But failed to answer my question.  I repeat it now:

Would you define active lurking, please?

Squill

Where have all the flowers gone?  Err... I mean, so a player has a role, right?  And they play it, and then (some of them, bah) ask for a replace.  Then there's a new player, or maybe there's not.  That new player plays however they do, if there is one.  But the role hasn't changed.  That original role is still sitting there, and if it's a Scum role it's just begging for a lynch.

To your thinking, how important is a current playstyle in your decision to lynch or not?  To you, are we lynching roles, playstyles, both, or something else?

Reminder to all, it's about 19 hours to end of D, if there are not three more extension requests.

[Imp]

... about 7 hours to end of D.  Nothing has changed since my last post.  No one speaks for extends yet, no one speaks of anything else....

I now need to consider how I want to use my vote for end of D.

My current strong scum reads, across the entire game, are Rolepgeek and Deathsword-now-Tiruin.  Presuming this silent apathy continues, neither is possible to lynch as the board currently stands.

I do not say that Tiruin's Scummy too - there's been no time for that player to show anything of their play in this game as a player.  But she holds a role that looked incredibly scummy to me before - if it was possible to lynch either Rolepgeek or Deathsword-now-Tiruin, one of those two would have my vote now to help ensure that lynch.

I have three choices.  zombie urist really has the power, it's his call to say what happens, if this game 'mod extends' again or what.  However, he is going to allow this game to go to the last second, -again- before he reveals his choice in that regard.  Therefore I have to prepare my choice, in case his choice is to let the D end.  I will say that the entirety of this game has now fully passed from 'neat' to 'aggravating' to me.  I feel like the rules are unpredictably changing, that I'm very close to the only player that cares about this game AND is trying to actively play it, and I feel like I'm being jerked around - possibly not purposefully, but that's the result; I and my play are being jerked around in several different ways and there's precious little I can do about it, short of refusing to continue to play and asking for a replacement too - which I also refuse to do.

I do not trust anyone to be active in this thread in time before D end.  I will remain periodically active throughout the day, so I am responsive if people actually start posting.  Note that it will take MULTIPLE people to vote an extension through, with or without my help and it is only an IF that zombie MAY decide to mod extend.  Thus I am both forced to play WIFOM with SILENCE from almost everyone, -and- I'm forced to prepare for a D end that may or may not be Mod extended -AGAIN-, despite rules talking about how if extensions are not used there will be no further extensions - and that this extension has essentially gone unused.  Furthermore - Darvi's been essentially silent for 2 weeks now, making the role he owns silent or essentially silent for 3 of the 4 weeks this game has been played over.  OMGU(all)S - everyone.  That's how I feel right now about this game overall.  By the rules we are even supposed to be currently ineligible for further extensions - because we haven't USED this current one!

So, the freaking vote, which apparently I, Robot am the only player that seriously cares about:

I can allow a tie, which currently exists.  I can do this by not changing my vote, or by unvoting, which would turn a three way tie into a two way tie; no significant difference.

I can switch my vote to Superblackcat.  I do think he's a very weak, probably Town player.  I'm not sure he's Town, but if he's Scum he's doing a FANTASTIC job of making me think he's a very weak probably Town player - I can't see him as having an actual Scum role and doing exactly what he's done - period.  I can support his lynch because he's a very weak player who's shown a lot of Scumminess - that's a reasonable lynch.  And I know I could be wrong and he could be Scum.  I was willing to see his roleflip a few days ago, when my only choice seemed to be to create a tie or permit him to be a probable mislynch, or try to guarantee him as a probable mislynch.

I can switch my vote to Griffinpup-became-Darvi.  I have asked for this role to be modkilled after a week of silence.  Instead it was replaced.  I got no read I could understand on Darvi during the week he spoke - except that he was interested in helping us learn how to play.  Appreciated, but a null-tell.  However, that role has again been silent.  And stayed silent.  For TWO MORE WEEKS.  THIS ROLE HAS BEEN SILENT FOR THREE WEEKS OF PLAY AND THE MOD IS NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

I asked for that role to be modkilled.  That didn't happen.  That role is now a possible lynch target, if everyone stays as inactive as they consistently stay.

Fine.  Darvi-who-holds-Griffinpup's-role.  If you won't be modkilled or even FREAKING AUTOMATICALLY REPLACED within two-more-weeks-of-nearly-utter-silence, then you can be lynched today.

I don't have ANY idea if you're Scum or not - you're null-tell to me.  This game as a WHOLE is jerking my chain so much, I no longer care.  I do want the game to end or be cancelled - I do want to see roleflips - I do want closure.  I'm ready to move this game towards end, win or lose.

Deathsword and Rolepgeek - you are interested in seeing how I break?  -This- is how I break.  I break not from player pressure, but from inconsistent application of rules, especially over time.  I break from generalized apathy around me combined with feeling a complete inability to predict the outcome of my own or others choices - because rules are not being consistently applied and enforced, and indeed change 'as needed' over time. *spits*

Yes, mod, I am yelling at -you-.  I'm so annoyed at this game for a whole bunch of reasons which include your inconsistent application of the game's rules that I'm tempted to make two posts for the pure purpose of editing each of them to see if you'd enforce -that- rule at least.

I will be creating a new deadchat for new dead people.

Will the old dead people also have access to the new deadchat?  Should I end up dead before the end of the game, there's a few things I'd like to attempt to discuss with one or both of the old dead.

[Squill]

Squill

Where have all the flowers gone?  Err... I mean, so a player has a role, right?  And they play it, and then (some of them, bah) ask for a replace.  Then there's a new player, or maybe there's not.  That new player plays however they do, if there is one.  But the role hasn't changed.  That original role is still sitting there, and if it's a Scum role it's just begging for a lynch.

To your thinking, how important is a current playstyle in your decision to lynch or not?  To you, are we lynching roles, playstyles, both, or something else?

I am voting based on playstyle. Darvi's really getting on my nerves, because he comes in, accuses me with seeming surety that I am scum, then promptly vanishes.
To me, he wasn't accusing me so much as the most convenient target. He was voting, then saying, "Oh look! I can scumhunt," then leaving.

I do not trust anyone to be active in this thread in time before D end.  I will remain periodically active throughout the day, so I am responsive if people actually start posting.  Note that it will take MULTIPLE people to vote an extension through, with or without my help and it is only an IF that zombie MAY decide to mod extend.  Thus I am both forced to play WIFOM with SILENCE from almost everyone, -and- I'm forced to prepare for a D end that may or may not be Mod extended -AGAIN-, despite rules talking about how if extensions are not used there will be no further extensions - and that this extension has essentially gone unused.  Furthermore - Darvi's been essentially silent for 2 weeks now, making the role he owns silent or essentially silent for 3 of the 4 weeks this game has been played over.  OMGU(all)S - everyone.  That's how I feel right now about this game overall.  By the rules we are even supposed to be currently ineligible for further extensions - because we haven't USED this current one!

I share many of the sentiments of this post. I am not extending because RPG, for example, has been requesting replacement for probably over a week and no one has stepped in. Now we need three or four replacements, with no sign of ending. Right now, I'm just voting on my "most likely Scum" pick. This game isn't going anywhere unless there's some really sudden replacements, so I just want to push for the end.

[Imp]

Squill:
My reread of the posts including and around his vote (and revote) of you make me think that he voted you initially, and repeatedly, as pressure, not 'play better', which seems to have been what he intended with his previous votes.  He says two things to you in the post where he first votes you:

unconnected to the vote is a assessment of two portions of your logic supporting your vote on Kleril; an assessment which he does not do a very good job explaining simply (I believe I follow his explanation, but I do think it is more convoluted than many of the decidedly pointed things he said to other players before and even in that same post) why he thinks you're wrong about Town choices.

Followed by a more clear attack on the concept that 'lynch it to see what happens' is not Town play.  Funny.  I agree with that logic, but the exact circumstances of this game are putting me in a spot where I feel like I can sit and do nothing (not going to do that), request a replacement because I find the game unplayable (... tempting, but not going to do that), vote blindly based on largely unsupported votes - essentially 'lynch it to see what happens', or accept a nolynch in order to get more of the same the next D (I expect more of the same.  Prove me wrong, the lot of you.  I dare every one of you and nothing would make me feel better about the game than being proved wrong about the 'fact' that you're all going to predominantly lurk through D3, those of you who survive it!  Prove me wrong - DO IT!).

Connected to the vote is a summary: accusation of lurking (I agree with that; you're seriously lurky) and joining the bandwagon on Kleril.


He soon unvotes you, saying he was doing so to break a three way tie; this comes at the end of a pretty long post which is preceded by another player changing votes to break that three way tie (so Darvi's vote change actually immediately creates a new two way tie); Darvi responds to this by complaining about the other vote change and insta-changing his vote back to you.  (This leaves you with one vote, with the lynch lead having 3).

To me this is all filled with null tells.  It's interesting that he didn't seem to be voting Squill to correct bad play (his previous votes seemed connected to 'things players could fix', and when they did, he changed his vote.

He may have intended this with you too - if you'd explained logic he liked better, or changed your vote (which would have returned us to a 3 way tie, unless you switched to one of the other two-vote candidates... so probably not that).

And of course it's disgusting, not interesting, that he then disappears, but for one oops post; doesn't even request replacement even when making that oops post or after apparently getting 2 prods.

This is bad play, not scum play, to me.  He still reads as null, but that's my take on his 'I am voting Squill' stuff, in case you wanted it.

Pushing for the end?  Yeah.  Personally I'd prefer a cancellation of the game to blind voting to the end, but that's strategic too.  Blind voting is good for the Scum, bad for Town; I'd prefer a no win/doesn't count to a Town loss because of blind voting.  But right now I'd prefer a 'game end' through any means to a 'hanging on as is, game still in play, go play' if that's really my choices.

[Superblackcat]

I'm sorry, I've been very busy...


I believe that Active Lurking is when someone pretends to contribute to the game, but actually does not. So the person is active, but doesn't say anything useful.

Like repeating redundant stuff, saying the same stuff as the person before you did. Bandwagoning in the middle or end (When confirmed).

[Imp]

I'm sorry, I've been very busy...


I believe that Active Lurking is when someone pretends to contribute to the game, but actually does not. So the person is active, but doesn't say anything useful.

Like repeating redundant stuff, saying the same stuff as the person before you did. Bandwagoning in the middle or end (When confirmed).

Woohoo!  You answered.

Alright then.  When you have time:

You've told us what Scumhunting is:

Scumhunting, in my opinion, is actively searching for scum. Then in between that and lurking, is pointing out scummy things, putting pressure(rarely) and kind of being there. Then there is lurking, where there is no activity.

And now you've finally answered what active lurking is:

I believe that Active Lurking is when someone pretends to contribute to the game, but actually does not. So the person is active, but doesn't say anything useful.

Like repeating redundant stuff, saying the same stuff as the person before you did. Bandwagoning in the middle or end (When confirmed).

I like your scumhunting definition better than your active lurker def, but at least you have one and it's not totally wrong.  So it's not that you're clueless, Superblackcat, it's not that you're running around pointlessly because you don't get the point.

I'm even going to thank you, honestly thank you for having decided to be an active lurker than a passive one.  I've had it with passive ones.  Really.  Had.  It.

But I have to ask you now, do you understand that you have been actively lurking, not scumhunting, in almost every post you've made this game?

When you have appeared to scumhunt, it has almost exclusively been in direct response to others who have voted for you, and aimed only at those specific others (noted that you did not respond to me in that fashion after I placed vast pressure upon you, though without a vote).

Explain your behavior.  Why are you consistently failing to scumhunt?  Why are you consistently actively lurking?  Are you going to change this in the future of this game, assuming you're one of the 'lucky' ones who lives to see D3?

[Tiruin]

Arghh. Timezones + Busy.

So, Tiruin.

Need time to catch up on the thread?  I'll support anyone's requests for an extension at this point.

Already caught up on the thread?  What do you feel should be said by you at this point, you player and you {IC}?

I'll have less generalized questions for you after I read your answer(s) to that one.

I'd be catching up on it later on-however I really doubt that there'd be time left. I feel that what should be said-has mostly been said, but would be restated as is.

> In inactivity-this is a crucial point for town. Scum can jabber on in the scumchat, yet this is only based on recent events. In the time passing, the idleness would stagnate, and the only way this could be broken is (either by cop intervention, or people would get the train running and start going aggressive. Passivity isn't generally how town wins.)

..Yeah it seems I've to say a general point given that recently (..on a skim  ) I've noticed mostly dueling at the point--people poking each other on every note they think is scummy, wherein the notes to be poked on should be either related to a causative relevance to how the case is being made or they should be conclusive in order to drive a point that makes said person scum.

That being said, I see Imp as town-y.

Imp: Query. Why're you asking definition of terms on SBC? How does that help your eye on him?

I am..really lacking questions because I am really lacking the time to read up.

My current strong scum reads, across the entire game, are Rolepgeek and Deathsword-now-Tiruin.  Presuming this silent apathy continues, neither is possible to lynch as the board currently stands.

I do not say that Tiruin's Scummy too - there's been no time for that player to show anything of their play in this game as a player.  But she holds a role that looked incredibly scummy to me before - if it was possible to lynch either Rolepgeek or Deathsword-now-Tiruin, one of those two would have my vote now to help ensure that lynch.

Precluding the lack of human response from replacement, hold your doubt or suspicion based on the previous person to hold said role. If past person is scummy, refer all now-questions you had on him to the now-her.

Pushing for the end?  Yeah.  Personally I'd prefer a cancellation of the game to blind voting to the end, but that's strategic too.  Blind voting is good for the Scum, bad for Town; I'd prefer a no win/doesn't count to a Town loss because of blind voting.  But right now I'd prefer a 'game end' through any means to a 'hanging on as is, game still in play, go play' if that's really my choices.

On this note (cancellation?! D:) I'll be making a concise list of everything from person to person in the next day [given the lack of time here] as well as most other points on the matter--something that would be done regardless given the lack of activity for the past days. It both acts as a resolution to the lacking time, and an initiative to scum if Town gets aggressive-just not that aggressive as, to make note, scum can pin a townie under mistakes that are done in the past and all they've to do is. . .well, 'to ride the wave out'.

Double-take on those reads and check them thoroughly despite the conventional wisdom, in certain situations.


Note that I'm not using an IC voice this game. Just like in real games-players themselves can be the ones to point out your mistakes in helpful (or snarky) responses. Keep your suspicio-meter on, but not overclocking.

[Imp]

Imp: Query. Why're you asking definition of terms on SBC? How does that help your eye on him?

That's answered in detail in the post immediately preceding yours.

To answer in summary, and to give further context if needed:

I pressed Superblackcat in multiple ways D1.  I believe he's not a strong player and has much to learn.  Exactly how weak a player he was and how ignorant, and how much of his poor play is intentional choice and how much is 'genuine trying his best';  This is what I want to know and what drove my pair of questions to him.

I wanted to establish that he A) knows what Scumhunting is; B) knows what active lurking is AND that it is distinct from Scumhunting; (I now have functional proof of both).  Thus my newest post to him.  If I'm alive and he's alive come D3 perhaps there will be more answers; perhaps I'll feel a lot better about being in a lynch right or lose sort of situation with him as one of the lynch choices I have to make.

I'd be catching up on it later on...I am really lacking the time to read up.

Yet - you don't ask for extension.  Either.  No one is asking for an extension.  Sure, with no time left to answer my question - why not, Tiruin?

You may not even be alive come D3, to be able to make that promised 'later' post.  Or maybe you're tacitly admitting that yeah, you're scum, you're quite appropriately playing towards your wincon, for which going to night hours after your first post as a player; without having caught up or read up on the thread, without any use of your vote doesn't do anything to impede your wincon at all.  Hot damn.

So here we go; less than 3 hours to end of D (or not, gosh, what is Mod going to do this time?  Why why why do I even have to worry about factoring in what the mod's going to do too?  Sheesh, this keeps up I'm voting zombie *bangs head against wall*).  We have multiple inactives; we have.... I'm not going to list more complaints.

Scum, should you not be totally idle and ignoring this thread; we're going to N2 (maybe).  You've got a night kill.  Be merciful.  I think I'm suffering more than anyone here.  Do me a favor, mmm?  End my pain.  Removing me as a living player: if the game does not get cancelled, that is the fastest way out of this game for me.

[Tiruin]

So here we go; less than 3 hours to end of D (or not, gosh, what is Mod going to do this time?  Why why why do I even have to worry about factoring in what the mod's going to do too?  Sheesh, this keeps up I'm voting zombie *bangs head against wall*).  We have multiple inactives; we have.... I'm not going to list more complaints.

Well extending the game.. >_<

Yet - you don't ask for extension.  Either.  No one is asking for an extension.  Sure, with no time left to answer my question - why not, Tiruin?

I..think I did. A concise read would be the most optimal at this time, but I thought of the point in regard to time left-it would be little enough to state it at the moment. Sure, it could act as a note later on in-game, if in question I get killed tonight, however it would prove little if at all regardless if I live or not as my method usually involves questioning and then continuing along the questions.

You may not even be alive come D3, to be able to make that promised 'later' post.  Or maybe you're tacitly admitting that yeah, you're scum, you're quite appropriately playing towards your wincon, for which going to night hours after your first post as a player; without having caught up or read up on the thread, without any use of your vote doesn't do anything to impede your wincon at all.  Hot damn.

...Ok this insults me as a player. This is not what I would do as any alignment, ever. Because it's, to be saying bluntly, damn cheap. Players have principles and I stick to said principles regardless of what alignment I have, thank you very much.

Scum, should you not be totally idle and ignoring this thread; we're going to N2 (maybe).  You've got a night kill.  Be merciful.  I think I'm suffering more than anyone here.  Do me a favor, mmm?  End my pain.  Removing me as a living player: if the game does not get cancelled, that is the fastest way out of this game for me.

Ok, if town = don't do this. If you live to D3 (in the situation wherein you are town), it just invites a whole lot of WIFOM--WIFOM which the enemy can use to stand upon you. If you don't..well, in certain games (all non-BM games), this is doubly as a huge bad idea as it gives off..on this statement alone..that you're acting the martyr.

...

What's wrong? :S

Darvi.

[Squill]

Pushing for the end?  Yeah.  Personally I'd prefer a cancellation of the game to blind voting to the end, but that's strategic too.  Blind voting is good for the Scum, bad for Town; I'd prefer a no win/doesn't count to a Town loss because of blind voting.  But right now I'd prefer a 'game end' through any means to a 'hanging on as is, game still in play, go play' if that's really my choices.

What happens if the game is cancelled? Is it just "GAME OVER," or are all the roles and chats and whatnots revealed?

[Imp]

Well extending the game.. >_<

Yet - you don't ask for extension.  Either.  No one is asking for an extension.  Sure, with no time left to answer my question - why not, Tiruin?

I..think I did.

My "Why not, Tiruin" was "Why not ask for an extension, Tiruin", reading your posting of not having enough time.  Are you saying that you think you did ask for an extension?

I don't see it.  Not a bolded request; not an unbolded request either.  None the less, I have offered to support an extension request.  If you meant to request one now but didn't; you're supported; good luck getting the third extend needed at this point.

[Tiruin]

Well extending the game.. >_<

Yet - you don't ask for extension.  Either.  No one is asking for an extension.  Sure, with no time left to answer my question - why not, Tiruin?

I..think I did.

My "Why not, Tiruin" was "Why not ask for an extension, Tiruin", reading your posting of not having enough time.  Are you saying that you think you did ask for an extension?

I don't see it.  Not a bolded request; not an unbolded request either.  None the less, I have offered to support an extension request.  If you meant to request one now but didn't; you're supported; good luck getting the third extend needed at this point.

Yeah. I di-
...Well, I did think of it, but then seeing that there was no extension at that time (which I missed now that I see it) I would extend.

...I had thought that nobody was into extending it -I looked at ZU's votecount at the time.

[Imp]

What happens if the game is cancelled? Is it just "GAME OVER," or are all the roles and chats and whatnots revealed?

zombie urist, what's your decision about our game?  No matter what, someday its scumchat and deadchat are going open for all to view, right?  I'm really interested in their contents, even if this BM game goes the way of the few others which were simply stopped in the middle, their number reused a bit later with a new start.

All QT's will be available after the game.

QT's are quick topic private chats, that's 'where' scum chat and dead chat happens.

I don't have time to properly search atm (at work) but one previously canceled BM was 10; the mod accidentally gave a town cop player who inspected a Scum the identities of both Scum players.  In the case of that game it looks like 'it ended' was used.  A glance shows no QT links or role flips - though, the roles of both scum, confirmed by the mod, was discussed by all including the mod in the thread.

Squill or anyone still around, we've currently got 2 votes to extend.  Give us our third!  I've got to hear Tiruin's answer to this question, at very least -

Tiruin!  Sorry to be rude, maybe I'm not thinking straight.  I'm still concerned, but if this extend goes through, we've got time to talk about that later.

However!  Now you use your vote.  You 'cement' the lynch on Darvi-who-was-Griffinpup.

You offer no reasons and recently said you'd not caught up.  I suspect you read my posts a bit more than others', you've given me that feeling throughout.  I say in my post where I vote Darvi why I vote for him instead of Superblackcat, or leave the game with tied votes and hours to go.  But in that post I don't say that I think he's Scum; I say pretty clearly that I can't read him and why.

Why, why why, have you voted at this point for Darvi?  With all respect, and with no insult intended - if this is not Scum jumping on a bandwagon, giving absolutely no reason for it (and with, to my eyes, really murky reasons for voting for him PERIOD) with hours left on the clock in a heavily idle game, a stated not-caught up yet with reading situation....

If you are not Scum, then why the heck are you doing this?

Unvote.

I really, really want an extension now.  I'd still accept the game being canceled instead, but Tiruin's talking, and I'd like these answers before night takes us all.  Now I'm even more worried that a vote for Darvi is a vote for town.  I suspected Deathsword-now-Tiruin strongly, and I'm really curious about the reasonings going on in Tiruin's mind!