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[webadict]

I got The_Iqovian and birdy51 asking for replacements. Which basically means no one will replace them and I'll probably end up modkilling them. JUST LETTING YOU ALL KNOW THAT THIS ISN'T EVEN A NEW THING FOR ME! I'm actually more surprised by games WITHOUT replacements!

[birdy51]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seeya Iqovian.

Mark this my dear friends, mark this. I suspect that not everyone currently voting for me is a townie. I doubt that people are just now realizing that I say silly things on occasion, or that I am not the best at explaining details. Nay, bear in mind that some people may be legitimately worried. I suspect that the main reasons why I am being voted for are not what they appear to be. They are to apply further pressure to force me over the edge.

Fortunately, I quite frankly don't give a damn.

The only thing that bothers me, is that I am entirely indisposed between Thursday and Saturday, so I won't be able to leaf through and answer questions, and get down to the heart of why I am really being accused of being scum. I shall instead be on stage singing the majority of my next few days. I shall toss out an EXTEND now as I will need it.

Now, as a broad generalization, I think some of these votes are a reaction to what I've said recently, or what someone else has said recently. It could be for many reasons, but these are those off the top of my head.

1). My case on NQT has traction, and they are chainsawing for him.
2). My ability Rerun scares the scum team. Yes, I can force one of the members of the scumteam to take their factional kill over and over on what is now essentially a corpse. Obviously, this would mean I could block any further NKs by the Scum Team if I guess correctly, and therefore keep the scum in check. I have asked Wuba about this one by the way.
3). They are worried about Cheeetar, who may or may not be scum. Personally, I lean towards no, although the rolefishing isn't exactly helping. (On that note, if your entire case rests upon me taking the time to tell you the nitty gritty of my role, you really don't have your priorities straight. Start answering other people's questions.)

Anyways, that is my early morning news. Kent Brockman News will be off-air until we can get the actors off the set. Thank you for your patience.

Edit: Loverly... It seems I shall have to consider rescinding my replacement bet... I would rather not allow myself to be killed off when I still have a bit to offer. Besides, I'm somehow managing a higher activity rate than other players, and I have a performance coming. How's that for irony?

[Cheeetar]

Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum- would you mind saying perhaps who you think they might be, rather than ominously warning of it? My reason for my 'rolefishing' on you is that you've already claimed investigator. What exactly does scum gain by knowing the mysterious secrets~ of your investigations? The only thing I can see is you saying "I am cop but I cannot tell you anything about how it works or why it didn't work but just trust me guys I'm cop".

[notquitethere]

Birdy

The reason I didn't direct any questions to you, and to avoid you when I could was to see if you would notice. Which you didn't, but as you said that's not a crime. Really, this whole matter comes down to how you respond to the question,"Why didn't you notice?". Frankly, your answer feels a bit convoluted. I still feel that I haven't received a straight answer as to why you didn't notice. You cite that asking RVS questions isn't a good way to find scum, but you've yet to actually say, "No, I missed that you said that" or "Yes, I did see it, but I decided that I had other things to worry about."

I saw your suspicions, but I didn't have a chance to post a reply before the end of Day 1, and to be honest I was mostly caught up with the end of Day 1 stuff to remember to write a late response.

In fact, I still don't have an answer to that question. The responses you've given have been purely political, or devoid of any personal sense. Hell, you haven't even asked me why I chose you in particular yet. I think that is valid ground for suspicion.

It's pretty obvious why you chose me, as I'm the only player of mafia who cares about stuff like that. There you were testing me to see whether or not I was quite notquitethere enough. I didn't notice that you hadn't specifically directed an RVS question to me but you did do everyone else because I haven't been tracking that metric in this game.


Shake

NQT:

I know whenever I learn anything as town from my night actions, if it doesn't put anyone in danger I like to share it: the more information town has before you die the better.

So does that mean you're scum?  Or that you didn't learn anything last night?

It means I either didn't learn anything last night or I learned something that wouldn't be in the interests of town to share. If I learn something safe and useful, I'll share.

Also, I switched my vote off of Deathsword because he answered my question in his very next post.


I'm glad that Iquovian posted his response before replacing out. As he's probably going to be modkilled, I might as well switch off his lynch until we hear more about his possible replacement.


Sheep— you going to grace us with your presence?

[Nerjin]

And another thing! Your power, Silver Tongue wasn't it? That's much more of a villainous power than something someone who'd end up on team would have. People like Saruman, Lucifer or the Master have silver tongues, it's not the sort of power a goody gets.

It's called 'Smooth Talk'. Once again. I am a loyal patriot who fights for a greater cause. Though it would have been neat to play as some of those people I'm not quite so hard to figure out as that. Anyways, I see you get a double vote. That's kind of interesting.

I got The_Iqovian and birdy51 asking for replacements. Which basically means no one will replace them and I'll probably end up modkilling them. JUST LETTING YOU ALL KNOW THAT THIS ISN'T EVEN A NEW THING FOR ME! I'm actually more surprised by games WITHOUT replacements!

So if I were to, say, try to take one of The Iquovian's votes and then he's night killed do I get to keep the vote?

Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - Nerjin, Shakerag, Imp, Cheetar, (4)
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, (2)
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep, (1)
Nerjin - The Iquovian, the Iquovian (2)
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep - NotQuiteThere (1)
Tiruin -
Toaster -
No Lynch -

Not Voting -Tiruin, birdy51,

6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday ?M Central.

Is there a reason you haven't voted yet Birdy/Tiruin? If that IS your real name?

[webadict]

So if I were to, say, try to take one of The Iquovian's votes and then he's night killed do I get to keep the vote?

I dunno. Maybe. Do you have a power that does that? Because if you do have a power that does that, then that might work. Otherwise, if you don't have a power that does that, then that might not work. It really depends on whether you have a power that does that. All I can tell from this perspective is that that seems like a question you might want to PM to the mod, as it might just contain information that is only acknowledgable through PMs. Or maybe it doesn't. I don't really know. I don't have access to top secret information when I'm not in a PM. Or do I?!? I'll have to PM myself to find out.

[birdy51]

Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum- would you mind saying perhaps who you think they might be, rather than ominously warning of it? My reason for my 'rolefishing' on you is that you've already claimed investigator. What exactly does scum gain by knowing the mysterious secrets~ of your investigations? The only thing I can see is you saying "I am cop but I cannot tell you anything about how it works or why it didn't work but just trust me guys I'm cop".

*Birdy51 facepalms himself.*

I honestly do not have the time to go around pursuing my own little observations. Someone is likely not voting because they think I am scum. Someone is voting me, because they want me out of the way.

I have enough to explain this part of my argument, so I will. Perhaps sneak some responses into these observations. I don't know. I started typing and these paragraphs billowed out of my mouth like plumes of vomit. Enjoy.

- Shakerag's argument is grasping at straws, and isn't fully grounded in reality. His theorycrafting is all that his using as evidence against me. He's attempting to justify his vote, but honestly it's a lot of fluff and loaded questions. I mean really, the man can't identify normal figures of speech from abnormal ones. "Mislynch" is a cold, formal word. I was excited at that moment in time, so I opted to use more street worthy phrases. Beyond that, he makes the assumption that I actually have friends. Hoo boy, that is a good one. Aside from Tiruin and NQT, I think everyone has voted for me at some point in this game, normally with near lethal consequences . I suppose that would make them my scumbuddies too then?

- Imp, hasn't even bothered to make an argument, claiming that he's apparently always seen me as scummy. How convenient for him…

- You are asking me to compromise my ability to investigate by explaining how they happen. Why would a Townie rightfully need to know how another player uses his investigative powers? There is nothing to gain from this, other than to satisfy your need for information. Rather, by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me. Thus, I have decided that I refuse to tell you anything further on the matter, unless you can justify yourself. How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?

- NQT for all intents and purposes has been a bit… disconnected. Honestly, I don't know what he's doing, and if I had the time I would pursue the matter further. I'm starting to lead towards him not being one of the reasons why, simply because he seems so very far out of touch with this game right now. This part of my argument has lost traction in mind ever since I made my morning post. He no longer seems scummy. Just abnormally detached from the action.

- My opinion of Nerjin is changing rather rapidly, first with the realization that we have two double voters, and now secondly with the fact that he replaced the term "modkill" with "night kill" in his open PM. Someone has killing on the brain. I wonder why… Beyond that, he should also be in the know as to why I'm not voting. Silly man, we've been through that matter before.

These are arguments that I probably should be pursuing, but honestly I don't have time or the patience right now. Well... Sometimes I find time. I'm cooking this up while I have about an hour before practice, and I typed at least a good thirty minutes more than I wanted to. (it's the last day of Tech Week… After only Two days of actual Tech Week. It's rather frightening and there are still things that need worked out.) And yet… I'm somehow managing a somewhat decent margin of posts. I've seemingly invested myself into this game far too much to simply die by a modkill, especially since it's evident that a good portion of you seem to be hanging on my every word. (Or, if you would like, wanting to hang me with a rope made out of my words.)

I feel like my presence is somehow... Helpful, despite the numerous atrocities that spring forth from my lips. This raises an interesting point, so I may as well present it.

All:

Do you think it would be worth keeping me around? Should I rescind the replacement bid and make an attempt to return to play in full force? Or, would you prefer if I simply allow myself to be lynched/ modkilled?

[Shakerag]

Unvote

birdy51:

- Shakerag's argument is grasping at straws, and isn't fully grounded in reality. His theorycrafting is all that his using as evidence against me. He's attempting to justify his vote, but honestly it's a lot of fluff and loaded questions. I mean really, the man can't identify normal figures of speech from abnormal ones. "Mislynch" is a cold, formal word. I was excited at that moment in time, so I opted to use more street worthy phrases. Beyond that, he makes the assumption that I actually have friends. Hoo boy, that is a good one. Aside from Tiruin and NQT, I think everyone has voted for me at some point in this game, normally with near lethal consequences . I suppose that would make them my scumbuddies too then?

Nicely dissected.  I'm unvoting because it's kind of hard to maintain a pressure vote on someone who is maybe, possibly replacing out and will be largely unavailable otherwise.  And with that response, there's nothing really left to pressure on anyway.

- You are asking me to compromise my ability to investigate by explaining how they happen. Why would a Townie rightfully need to know how another player uses his investigative powers? There is nothing to gain from this, other than to satisfy your need for information. Rather, by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me. Thus, I have decided that I refuse to tell you anything further on the matter, unless you can justify yourself. How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?

Since we don't know how your ability works exactly, I can't really judge whether or not revealing it would benefit scum.  All I can say is that it is (to my knowledge) generally accepted that since in these games scum is the "informed minority" and town is the "uninformed majority", giving out information has a typically net benefit for town.  Withholding information, on the other hand, can be seen as scummy.  But that's just general principle stuff.  If your inspect has some kind of condition on it that would cause it to be no longer effective if revealed, then I suppose I could understand not wanting to give that information away.

Having said that, Cheeetar does have a point in that without knowing exactly how your ability works that we can't completely trust what you say either as you could be fakeclaiming.

Because I am not convinced that you're scum, I would say that it would be better if you were not lynched/modkilled, but you need to make the call as to whether you can continue playing. 


The_Iqovian's case on Nerjin feels paper-thin, especially since he has claimed a lack of time to read and participate in the game.  But then double-votes Nerjin before he goes.  And is trying to discern alignment from an ability name.  An incorrect ability name.  In a BYOR. 


Cheeetar:  Are you going to keep voting birdy51 even if he's up for replacement?  If so, why?


Busy now, so I'll need to come back to this later/tomorrow.

Spoiler: OOC Hapah I am disappoint :( (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119041.msg3941297#msg3941297

[Nerjin]

- My opinion of Nerjin is changing rather rapidly, first with the realization that we have two double voters, and now secondly with the fact that he replaced the term "modkill" with "night kill" in his open PM. Someone has killing on the brain. I wonder why… Beyond that, he should also be in the know as to why I'm not voting. Silly man, we've been through that matter before.

Arguing semantics? Sorry, no purchase. Anyways sorry I forgot. It happens.

I'd prefer if you stuck around honestly [even though it looks like you're going to be dead soon] cause you do seem like a fun guy to play with.

[Imp]

Webadict:

Could we get an updated vote count please?

Nerjin:

It's possible that The_Iqovian has placed a double vote upon you - but it's also possible that he simply decided to use red when he wrote your name in those two different places.  After all, you had me confused if you'd voted for birdy 1 time, 2 times, or even 4 times on D1...

....

Meph, can we please get an updated vote count/extend count/day end count?


We actually haven't had one since before the previous extend (and every vote change that Nerjin's done has happened SINCE that one)

I'm now wondering if Nerjin's got one vote, 2 votes (he actually used two, in a way in his first first voting post, once inside the spoiler, once outside.), or maybe even 4 votes - He used an unvote once, but since then he's voted for Birdy 4 times across 3 different posts.

....

Birdy:
I'll state my case asap.  It's grown on D2.  One thing I'm really wondering about, your 'Rerun' power - do you have to know who to use it on, or just that something happened?

Because you're talking about (or other people are talking about, and confused) that you could have forced the Scum nightkill to be used to kill the same player over and over without end, right?  Is that how you understand that the power works?

So you could have prevented the Scum from nightkilling anyone else all game.

Are you saying you could have only used this if you had been the Scum target to kill?  Are you saying that the night actions taken against you last night are forced to happen over and over again for the player(s) who took them?

Or are you saying that whomever is the night kill target, and whomever did that kill, you can force that to happen over and over?

If so, there is a night killed victim.  Do you believe Hapah was a third party kill?  Did something go wrong with your ability to find out who to place your rerun on?  I'm just generally confused by your claim.

[Imp]

All:

Do you think it would be worth keeping me around? Should I rescind the replacement bid and make an attempt to return to play in full force? Or, would you prefer if I simply allow myself to be lynched/ modkilled?

I think your play has been quite adequate.  There are others who have been able to post less than yourself, and they're not seeking replacement (or 'allowing themselves to be lynched').

You know how much you need to leave this game, and why.  If it's hurting you to give the time you have been or will give - take the fast way out.  If you're having fun and can stay, but think that the game deserves more than you have and can continue to give it - I say you're actually performing well and should stay unless you don't want to.

[Cheeetar]

Cheeetar:  Are you going to keep voting birdy51 even if he's up for replacement?  If so, why?

Yup! Apart from the fact that he's retracted his request for replacement in fear of being modkilled, if he was replaced I still think it'd be in town's best interests if his replacement told us how exactly this role was supposed to work.
I'm in possession of a healthy amount of doubt that Birdy's claim of investigator was entirely above board, and his reluctance to give out any details about it (even with a doctor hanging around) is the prime cause of it.

[TheWetSheep]

Shakerag:

birdy51 - Feeling less town - Could be fakeclaiming; a lot of focus on why he wasn't killed at night

Why are you calling him scum for talking about something that he was asked about?

TheWetSheep - Slightly moving toward scum - I think his case on Imp is poor

If this is true, why aren't you pressuring me?

NQT:

Sheep— you going to grace us with your presence?

Yes, actually. I don't respond faster when you vote me, though. Why have your last three votes been directed at people because they're not posting? Especially your vote on Iqovian, since you suspected he was up for replacement. Seems to me you've been trying to put up the appearance of being active with your vote, especially since suspecting many people is one of your most trusted town-tells.

A Theory: If Birdy is town, Cheeetar and Tiruin are probably town, since why would they be so fussed about which town player they lynched?

Also, why are people assuming Birdy would be NK'd? Seems to me he wouldn't be, since he was at the top of the lynch-list. It'd be easy to drive a lynch on him and NK someone thought to be more town.

And Birdy, staying in would definitely be better if you can manage it.

[Imp]

Birdy:

- You are asking me to compromise my ability to investigate by explaining how they happen. Why would a Townie rightfully need to know how another player uses his investigative powers? There is nothing to gain from this, other than to satisfy your need for information. Rather, by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me. Thus, I have decided that I refuse to tell you anything further on the matter, unless you can justify yourself. How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?

I'm also asking you to do this - so I'll answer this question too (I assume you meant to direct it to Cheeetar).

You made the claim of your role and about at least one of your abilities.  You made some big claims about your abilities, and the only reason I can understand why you did so was because your neck was in the noose - that goes for if you're Town or Scum - but you went so far as to claim that the only way you could pursue your wincon was to stay alive -

The only way I could advance the Town Wincon, is to prevent my own death and allow myself a chance to take a Night Action.

If you are Scum, you have plenty of reason to make any claim that you think might work.  And you made some big, big claims.

I also have one other ability that would make for an excellent gag, and had the potential to stop the scum team cold. It involves rekilling people. ^.^

Your claims didn't sound true to me then, at the end of D1.  This didn't change my mind about TolyK - I still felt he was scummier than you (and definitely Scummier than Nerjin).  I felt perfectly comfortable in pursuing a lynch on my top Scum pick - that in no way changes that I also saw you as Scummy. 

I didn't chase lynching you first because I did prefer a lynch of my top Scum pick if possible - and if your claims were true - why not give you time to use them?  If you'd lied, that would be apparent D2 and whatever evidence is in play can be examined D2.

Now, you've said a lot about your ability, but what you've said about how it works doesn't make sense to me - and seems likely to be a lie to me because of it.  And you claim that you're not talking further about it because:

by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me.

Well, if you are Town, the Scum team in their ignorance managed to avoid being investigated by you - and managed a kill (unless Hapah died to a non-Scum kill).  So the Scum team seems to be working just fine without the information you've partially given.

But now we have a problem, the rest of Town other than yourself does.  Now we have to decide if you are Town or Scum - and you've looked pretty Scummy.  Explaining yourself well enough that we can determine if you're even telling the truth or not serves Town in helping prevent your own mislynch.

No one told you to make the claims you did - but now that you have, they are part of the game's record.  Giving you a chance to choose to show that you're not a liar (assuming you are not lying) gives Town a chance to avoid another mislynch.  Even if what you say makes your power 100% useless, fixing what seems to be a lie (and why lie if you're not Scum?) or even if what you say makes you be tonight's night kill - at least you are freeing up the lynch so we have a chance to lynch Scum.  And frankly, if you render yourself useless in the process - that's your bad choice from back on D1 coming back to bite you.  You made HUGE claims about your value to Town.  You even claimed to have no use to Town save through your abilities - which is false, all Town, even vanilla Town have their words, their observations and questions, and their vote - all of which can be used to try and further their Wincon, even hours and minutes before their mislynch.

[Cheeetar]

Also, why are people assuming Birdy would be NK'd? Seems to me he wouldn't be, since he was at the top of the lynch-list. It'd be easy to drive a lynch on him and NK someone thought to be more town.

If Birdy wasn't scum, then he'd be telling the truth about being an investigator, and thus the scum would want to kill him as soon as possible so none of their number is discovered.