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Author Topic: Star Ruler 2 [7/24/2018 - Now Open Source!]  (Read 84545 times)

Nirur Torir

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #240 on: July 25, 2014, 04:39:41 pm »

I've started a few games, and finished a small one. Here are my thoughts so far:

I don't know how much I like the trade routes mechanic. Maybe they'll grow on me, but I think they'll get annoying on non-small galaxies, and hope you add in the ability to fully automate them.

I think I like the diplomacy cards mechanic, and am interested in seeing what else you do with it. I worry that four cards per minute is balanced around small galaxies, and think it would be too easy for larger games to devolve into racing to buy the best cards every minute. I think this could be mitigated by adding in an extra slot for each player (possibly customizable - "I'll wait 50% longer between refreshes and double the purchase costs to increase my odds of getting annex cards). I would like to watch for specific cards, and have it alert me when they pop up, with a tone and a small visual ping.

Fleets seem bland right now, since support ships are just high/med/low damage and supply use, traded off with armor. I'd like to see more varied non-combat ships. Repair drone tenders, shield projectors, supply vessels, and maybe some electronic warfare ships (Target me! Look how threatening all this armor is!). It might be interesting if there were upgraded support ship modules that need maintenance (ships with such parts shouldn't be auto-built by defense planets). I'd really like some way to buy a resupply for fleets, and it would be nice it if the enemies' constant scouting into my core worlds didn't stop my ships from resupplying.

FTL interdiction cores would be an interesting addition.

I do not like how researching one field increases the costs of all fields. I don't think 'grab your favorite low-hanging fruit special projects, then pump your favorite tech' is as interesting a research strategy as spreading research out. I feel that sociology would be more interesting with a % increase, and the thermodynamics increasing generator supply by 10% is not at all worth a level of +10% damage from all weapons.
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Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #241 on: July 25, 2014, 04:46:51 pm »

Quote
think this could be mitigated by adding in an extra slot for each player
This is the case right now, if you weren't aware.

Quote
but I think they'll get annoying on non-small galaxies, and hope you add in the ability to fully automate them.
If you're talking about 150+ system galaxies then we wish you luck as we're not sure even the balance of the game scales well to those sizes - much less the macromanagement tools.

We would really prefer to add as little automation as possible.  We'd rather provide better management tools to the player instead.  The new planet screen should help out a lot in that respect, especially once it becomes slightly more geographically knowable.  That said I don't know the tools will ever be able to help players effectively manage thousand-system-galaxies and the like -- but games of that scale rapidly become unmanageable in simple length (I apologize to whomever tries to actually complete a 1000 system galaxy game with non-pushover AI).
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 05:03:15 pm by Firgof Umbra »
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BFEL

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #242 on: July 25, 2014, 05:17:42 pm »

Hmm, so I like the way the Galactic Senate works (barring its constant existence regardless of first contact etc.) but feel there isn't currently a way to do actual diplomacy with other empires. The GS seems mostly to be about screwing over other empires politically, so there isn't really any way to work out trade agreements or defense pacts and the like.

Along with the GS we definitely need a more focused empire to empire diplomacy system. Because making space friends can be important.
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etgfrog

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #243 on: July 25, 2014, 09:20:54 pm »

Quote
think this could be mitigated by adding in an extra slot for each player
This is the case right now, if you weren't aware.
I sure wasn't aware of this since I've seen all 4 cards get bought by the ai.

The new planet layout looks good, but the thing I'm waiting on is the research trees being actually implemented. However, I will agree with the annoyance that increasing tech of one field increases the cost of other fields. Although for shields you could have it be that it protects all the support fleet. It would give a reason to have glass cannon support ships or have support ships generate shields for a flagship.
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Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #244 on: July 25, 2014, 10:04:56 pm »

Quote
I sure wasn't aware of this since I've seen all 4 cards get bought by the ai.
I'm not sure what you're asking then -- I don't see how that applies to what you wrote... are you asking for each player to have a dedicated stack or 'slot' which can't be purchased by another player?
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BFEL

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #245 on: July 25, 2014, 10:08:48 pm »

Quote
I sure wasn't aware of this since I've seen all 4 cards get bought by the ai.
I'm not sure what you're asking then -- I don't see how that applies to what you wrote... are you asking for each player to have a dedicated stack or 'slot' which can't be purchased by another player?
I THINK that's what he's asking.

Also, if I understand the influence system right, its theoretically possible to hog ALL the influence in the universe, correct? And then not spend any of it and make diplomacy entirely inaccessible to errybody?
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Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #246 on: July 25, 2014, 10:16:39 pm »

Only if you have all the influence production in the universe.
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dennislp3

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #247 on: July 25, 2014, 11:30:45 pm »

Quote
think this could be mitigated by adding in an extra slot for each player
This is the case right now, if you weren't aware.

Quote
but I think they'll get annoying on non-small galaxies, and hope you add in the ability to fully automate them.
If you're talking about 150+ system galaxies then we wish you luck as we're not sure even the balance of the game scales well to those sizes - much less the macromanagement tools.

We would really prefer to add as little automation as possible.  We'd rather provide better management tools to the player instead.  The new planet screen should help out a lot in that respect, especially once it becomes slightly more geographically knowable.  That said I don't know the tools will ever be able to help players effectively manage thousand-system-galaxies and the like -- but games of that scale rapidly become unmanageable in simple length (I apologize to whomever tries to actually complete a 1000 system galaxy game with non-pushover AI).

I am a little confused by this line of thought...

The ability to make as large a galaxy as you want and the freedom that comes with that is a selling point...but right here the line of thought it "you can do that...but good luck cause it won't work hardly...we didn't make it to actually play at that level"?

Why even have that ability...
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jocan2003

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #248 on: July 25, 2014, 11:55:11 pm »

Quote
think this could be mitigated by adding in an extra slot for each player
This is the case right now, if you weren't aware.

Quote
but I think they'll get annoying on non-small galaxies, and hope you add in the ability to fully automate them.
If you're talking about 150+ system galaxies then we wish you luck as we're not sure even the balance of the game scales well to those sizes - much less the macromanagement tools.

We would really prefer to add as little automation as possible.  We'd rather provide better management tools to the player instead.  The new planet screen should help out a lot in that respect, especially once it becomes slightly more geographically knowable.  That said I don't know the tools will ever be able to help players effectively manage thousand-system-galaxies and the like -- but games of that scale rapidly become unmanageable in simple length (I apologize to whomever tries to actually complete a 1000 system galaxy game with non-pushover AI).

I am a little confused by this line of thought...

The ability to make as large a galaxy as you want and the freedom that comes with that is a selling point...but right here the line of thought it "you can do that...but good luck cause it won't work hardly...we didn't make it to actually play at that level"?

Why even have that ability...
Early access... they havent tested it at that level, and the macromanagement tool hasnt been configured to play at that level either. Its possible and i sure will try one at that level and then from there be able to make good suggestion for those who like that kind of gameplay.

The way i saw it is that they didnt have the manpower to test at that level, thus lacking information on how to properly balance and provide appropriate tools for those who like that scope/size/? ( Not sure right word here please somebody tell me?). Also since they did not test at that scale either, they simply dont know or dont believe if the game current auto-balancing mecanics will work properly. Well thats how i saw it at least.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 11:57:10 pm by jocan2003 »
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Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #249 on: July 26, 2014, 01:20:22 am »

Quote
Why even have that ability...
Well for one the mod community I bet would appreciate there not being any hard and fast rules or code.

Also for some of the reasons jocan2003 stated.  Even though such large-scale games may not work well presently that doesn't mean we can't or won't invent the tools necessary for it to work later.  However first we want to make the 'target' system count games work excellently.

In any event we like to encourage folks to tinker and explore (albeit we try to advise players when they've gone 'a tweak too far').  This is part of the fun of a sandbox strategy game - exploration of the game space outside of the scope of 'a single campaign' and not being limited a 'one true experience'.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 02:05:20 am by Firgof Umbra »
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #250 on: July 26, 2014, 11:33:37 am »

Quote
I sure wasn't aware of this since I've seen all 4 cards get bought by the ai.
I'm not sure what you're asking then -- I don't see how that applies to what you wrote... are you asking for each player to have a dedicated stack or 'slot' which can't be purchased by another player?
A slot which can't be purchased by another player.

Also, if I understand the influence system right, its theoretically possible to hog ALL the influence in the universe, correct? And then not spend any of it and make diplomacy entirely inaccessible to errybody?
You can terraform planets to produce influence resources instead of their initial resource, and you can fund influence from budget overflow.
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BFEL

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #251 on: July 26, 2014, 12:22:28 pm »

Also, if I understand the influence system right, its theoretically possible to hog ALL the influence in the universe, correct? And then not spend any of it and make diplomacy entirely inaccessible to errybody?
You can terraform planets to produce influence resources instead of their initial resource, and you can fund influence from budget overflow.

I know that. What I'm talking about is that apparently there is literally a set amount of influence available in the universe, and it is theoretically possible for a single empire to have all of it.
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #252 on: July 26, 2014, 12:25:20 pm »

Yes, but only if your opponents deliberately don't pursue it. Short of wiping an empire out, you can't remove all possible sources of influence for them.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #253 on: August 01, 2014, 04:14:48 pm »

I have an interesting bug. I was trying to shuffle missile support ships to planets, so they would use the planet's supplies instead of the very limited supplies on my ship designed for a laser fleet. Somehow, it locked some of my ships to one planet. The planet won't take any more missile boats (but will take ghost missile boats), and will only take some of my laser ships. The planet has plenty of free support ship slots. (Problem eventually worked around by abandoning it, in a later save. That command does not appear reliably.)

Save is here. The system with the problem planet is off on its own in the lower left, with my fleet that is hotkeyed to 1.

Another bug: The new AI likes declaring early wars against 'weak' empires. Building a handful of missile support ships will make them stop declaring war, until you load. My guess is that it updates the fleet strengths from fleets, and then checks for weak empires, before it updates fleet strengths from planetary defense fleets. (I do not build armed scouts.)
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BFEL

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [7/18/14 - Early Access Launched!]
« Reply #254 on: August 04, 2014, 08:31:22 am »

So I just realized I forgot to do a breakdown of my pros/cons for various games in the genre, so I'll do that now.

Spoiler: Text Dump Eminent! (click to show/hide)

So what does all this text dumpiness mean in regards to SR2?
Well it gives me some ideas that I think you guys might like.

Specifically, I notice that the tech tree currently has a few "projects" that make you choose a bonus, and I feel this is a good thing, just like in MoO2 it gives empires a small push towards being more unique.
However, I think we can take this further, and we can use other systems that are already in place to do so.

The current planetary resource thing has the resources carry a bonus to certain things, I.E. grain gives extra pop, etc.
This can be used to create a larger push towards unique empires by shaping them through the resources they obtain, and how they upgrade them.
By adding "tech discount" bonuses to different resources you could allow for situations where say...a race that gets lots of grain and fruit, and upgrades the planets of those resources obtains a discount to say...Organic Technology research, and having upgraded electronics would maybe discount Sensor technology or Cloaking.

Or we could take it a step further and have all non-basic tech "trees" be unlocked by the hypothetical science tree, and instead of discounting things make it weight what new trees you discover based on said resource bonuses.

This would allow for empires to naturally become less cookie-cutter and develop their own personalities in game. At least I think so.
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