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[Ardas]

@Monk: I understand perfectly how Prestige works, I'm just wondering if Emperor should be assigning it. As long as its a value that can be changed by one of the players, it has a potential to unbalance things. Had it been called 'imperial favour', thats a different thing. But I suppose thats how the game is meant to be played. More of a musing rather than real complaint from me.

[Iituem]

Sorry, busy GM = only bare minimum of time to monitor things, but I'm still doing it.  I'm working on converting a spreadsheet that will work out worlds, prestige and everything to save my poor head space.

Prestige is, as it were, transient.  For so long as you are donating supply, and that supply has Prestige value, your prestige is raised.  As soon as you stop donating it, the prestige drops back to base levels.  Prestige does not accumulate, like most resources; it exists at a certain state and is only added to the player Score at the end of the quarter.

Which means if, say, that fancy Forgeworld were to get captured or bombarded at the end of the turn then Prestige would collapse by 5 and the owner would only get the adjusted Prestige added to his score.

So, to work this out.  Assuming you have 5 General/Agricultural Worlds (1 Prestige each) and are donating all of your Supply (2.5 Prestige) and Intelligence (1.25 Prestige), minus 0.75 for the base 1 Supply and 1 Intel demanded, your max Prestige should be 8.  This does not accumulate.  It cannot go higher without improving worlds, gaining worlds, donating more resources or changing the value of donated resources.  Prestige evaporates as soon as its source is gone.

I'll add in some rule clarifications tonight when I get back.

And Morale will become more important once you start losing battles and worlds, yes.  Then you'll need to fight to stop worlds revolting.

Oh, and when the Emperor is satisfied that all actions he wants to take are taken, he may Close Council for the Phase.  This ends the Early Phase and brings us to the Late Phase after I've done my End of Phase Report.

[a1s]

[Specialized worlds produce more than specialists; they also produce Resources. A general world just produces one random specialist; a Specialized world produces one specific specialist (giving more control over future production) as well as a quantity of Resources- not just military assets like Armies and Ships, but Supply, Intelligence, and Morale as well.]

It's very loose control, actually- while we do get to pick which worlds we need, once we build them, they either produce the same resources you needed 10 turns ago, or you have to re-generalize them, feeling guilty about having wasted more specialists then a new Archon produces in a turn. Specialized worlds give prestige primarily. Except shipyards, outposts and academies which can possibly do thing normal worlds don't.
As for the Empire being starved for specialists, assuming even distribution (of probability) and the fact that there are 55 Imperial worlds, there is an 92% chance than no kind of specialist will be produced less than 10 times (the chance is even better if you only care about 1 or 2 types). Law of large numbers isn't just a good idea, y'know, it's a law.

[Rolepgeek]

Sorry, busy GM = only bare minimum of time to monitor things, but I'm still doing it.  I'm working on converting a spreadsheet that will work out worlds, prestige and everything to save my poor head space.

Prestige is, as it were, transient.  For so long as you are donating supply, and that supply has Prestige value, your prestige is raised.  As soon as you stop donating it, the prestige drops back to base levels.  Prestige does not accumulate, like most resources; it exists at a certain state and is only added to the player Score at the end of the quarter.

Which means if, say, that fancy Forgeworld were to get captured or bombarded at the end of the turn then Prestige would collapse by 5 and the owner would only get the adjusted Prestige added to his score.

So, to work this out.  Assuming you have 5 General/Agricultural Worlds (1 Prestige each) and are donating all of your Supply (2.5 Prestige) and Intelligence (1.25 Prestige), minus 0.75 for the base 1 Supply and 1 Intel demanded, your max Prestige should be 8.  This does not accumulate.  It cannot go higher without improving worlds, gaining worlds, donating more resources or changing the value of donated resources.  Prestige evaporates as soon as its source is gone.

I'll add in some rule clarifications tonight when I get back.

And Morale will become more important once you start losing battles and worlds, yes.  Then you'll need to fight to stop worlds revolting.

Oh, and when the Emperor is satisfied that all actions he wants to take are taken, he may Close Council for the Phase.  This ends the Early Phase and brings us to the Late Phase after I've done my End of Phase Report.

I've been working on spreadsheets quite a bit lately. I can do the basics, if you tell me what you need, and then hand it over to you so you can keep track of secret things.

[monk12]

[Specialized worlds produce more than specialists; they also produce Resources. A general world just produces one random specialist; a Specialized world produces one specific specialist (giving more control over future production) as well as a quantity of Resources- not just military assets like Armies and Ships, but Supply, Intelligence, and Morale as well.]

It's very loose control, actually- while we do get to pick which worlds we need, once we build them, they either produce the same resources you needed 10 turns ago, or you have to re-generalize them, feeling guilty about having wasted more specialists then a new Archon produces in a turn. Specialized worlds give prestige primarily. Except shipyards, outposts and academies which can possibly do thing normal worlds don't.
As for the Empire being starved for specialists, assuming even distribution (of probability) and the fact that there are 55 Imperial worlds, there is an 92% chance than no kind of specialist will be produced less than 10 times (the chance is even better if you only care about 1 or 2 types). Law of large numbers isn't just a good idea, y'know, it's a law.

Again, the directed production isn't the important bit, it's the fact that you get Intelligence, Supply and Morale as well (and a not insignificant amounts, at that.)  Sure, if you spam General worlds than you can constantly colonize new General Worlds, but the specialists are going to conquer them with their well-supplied ships and armies, and inspire revolts with their subversive intelligence agencies, and... well they won't really need the morale since that'll be naturally high from all the VICTORY!

[a1s]

Again, the directed production isn't the important bit, it's the fact that you get Intelligence, Supply and Morale as well (and a not insignificant amounts, at that.)  Sure, if you spam General worlds than you can constantly colonize new General Worlds, but the specialists are going to conquer them with their well-supplied ships and armies, and inspire revolts with their subversive intelligence agencies, and... well they won't really need the morale since that'll be naturally high from all the VICTORY!

Let's assume that you have 3 Intelligence Hubs, 3 Forgeworlds and 3 Propaganda Centres (and 3 Shipyards which we'll both have, since I admit their value as unique ship producers), where as I'll have the 9 general worlds (and, again, 3 shipyards) I will have as much supply, itelligence and morale as you (9 each), and in case I find a trade partner, I'll have a surplus of 9 armies to trade in for favours and supplies (or I could find an ally and supply my own armies while they provide the air space support). Specialist worlds must produce 4 units of resource to be viable (and considering their high cost ought to produce 5)

[Rolepgeek]

Not really, Monk12. Assuming they have an equal number of each of the specialized worlds(double Forgeworlds), and we have similar proportions of them, but with Forgeworlds, Intelligence Agencies, Propaganda Centres, Garrisons and half the Forgeworlds replaced by General Worlds, we get the following, assuming 80 worlds for each side.

Spoiler: Them (click to show/hide)

10 Shipyards
10 Garrisons
10 Outposts
10 Academies
10 Intelligence Agencies
10 Propaganda Centres
20 ForgeWorlds
Production:
+10 Engineers
+20 Military
+20 Psionic
+20 Labour
+20 (Their Choice)
30 Ships
30 Armies
60 Supply
30 Intelligence
30 Morale
+30 Effective Ships in Sector

Spoiler: Us (click to show/hide)

10 Shipyards
10 Outposts
10 Academies
10 Forgeworlds
40 General Worlds
+10 Engineers
+10 Military
+10 Laborers
+20 (Our Choice)
+40 (Each is random)
30 Ships
40 Armies
70 Supply
40 Intelligence
40 Morale
+30 Effective Ships in Sector

As you can see, we have more of everything except ships(and specialists, sort of). If we changed the Forgeworlds to General worlds, we would have 66% more of everything but ships, 'effective ships', and supply, which we would have 50 of(More than enough to fuel our fleet, still). Meaning we could sabotage their shipyards, outposts, and academies(especially academies), and possibly intelligence agencies and propaganda centres(since they have other specialized stuff, they still end up with less, though their other production would go up). The only thing they have an advantage is, is in a way, specialists. As has been said, it's very unlikely we could get below 10 of each type from the random part, ten psions can be provided by our academies, and other shortages can be covered by the rest of our academies. And the worst part?

They spent more to get to that point than us.

[a1s]

Specialist worlds must produce 4 units of resource to be viable (and considering their high cost ought to produce 5)

I noticed this game is based on something called "Galactic Emperor: Succession", which ran 10 years ago. Did they really not raise that question back then? (much like I know they didn't elect an emperor right away, so it's likely we have different mindsets with the Sokoto community.)

[Rolepgeek]

By the way, the reliable production of specialist worlds, some could see as a limited production, and thus bad.

I do think they should provide five, but I also think there should be another type of resource. Food. Produced by Agricultural worlds, which General Worlds can be converted into for eight Labourers(nothing else), produce Labourers, and produce 3 Food. 1 unit of food is needed for some Specialist Worlds to function(Forgeworlds and Academies in particular; the others don't seem like they'd need as much, but perhaps should be done anyway for equality/balance or something, except for Shipyards)  but not an Agricultural World or General World(since it is assumed that General Worlds provide just enough for themselves). Optional, and debatable in it's usefulness, is Armies needing Food rather than or in addition to Supplies to function. An equivalent for this might be Fuel for Ships, which might be provided by a Fuel world, which just need eight Engineers, and produces Engineers and 3 Fuel...

And of course, to even things out, a Communications Relay might be used for eight Psionics, and do something or other, maybe a new mechanic about getting messages to different sectors or getting ships places quickly or something to do with Intelligence and Morale, maybe(larger Morale boosts and small morale losses for victories and losses in the sector by controlling communications?), and a Military Headquarters, which would do the same thing Outposts do, but for Armies(and cost but eight Military, of course), without requiring Supplies(and the need for Food is small anyway).

[Ghazkull]

Okay i haven't read over everything in the IC thread and the OOC Thread but i want to bring this Train on its tracks so i closed the Council Meeting, i hope i didnt interrupt any discussions there.

[Parsely]

PTW

[Iituem]

Specialist worlds must produce 4 units of resource to be viable (and considering their high cost ought to produce 5)

I noticed this game is based on something called "Galactic Emperor: Succession", which ran 10 years ago. Did they really not raise that question back then? (much like I know they didn't elect an emperor right away, so it's likely we have different mindsets with the Sokoto community.)

I have significantly changed this game from how GE:S worked.  For one thing, electing the emperor was the endgame, whereas I've made it merely one significant step in a larger game.  They never raised the question because it didn't exist; worlds didn't produce specialists, you had a bunch at the start and got more by trading or a random bonus every time you specialised a world.  It wasn't a persistent setting, unlike this game.

Some strong arguments have been made for upping the production of Spec worlds to 4, to put them in line with those of General Worlds.  While I enjoy the opportunity cost of less overall production, the rarity and value of specialists is a good reason to up production to make it worthwhile.  Otherwise turning 4 Generals into Garrison, Forge, Intel and Prop worlds has little benefit.

I'm making some rule amendments and clarifications, which I'll update later this afternoon.  Amongst them will be setting base production of specialist worlds to 4 Resources.  Only technological research can improve that, and I'll post rules on that too.  New world types are, again, a question of research.

If I were to implement a Food mechanic, which I'm not sure about, Generals would produce 1 Food, Agris 4, and spec worlds require 2 Food as upkeep.  However, I'm dodgy about this.  I'm inclined to listen to arguments for and against on it.  "Fuel" for Ships is already covered under Supply and I don't want to add another resource unless I have to.

I'm going to start compiling the End of Phase Report now, though.

[Ardas]

I think that the game as it stands now is a nice blend between having resources and taking strategic decisions based on resource costs and trade-offs of those. Adding Food seems like an extra layer that doesn't really figure into game strategy beyond adding a layer to internal admin of a domain/demense. 

[a1s]

I think that the game as it stands now is a nice blend between having resources and taking strategic decisions based on resource costs and trade-offs of those. Adding Food seems like an extra layer that doesn't really figure into game strategy beyond adding a layer to internal admin of a domain/demense.

Yup, If you add food, you might as well throw in some metal and fuel. Which could be fun, you could even build a multi-tiered economy where you have to make ore into metal, rare earths into plastics and then both of those into ships. And some imperial currency to throw around (printed at will by the Emperor and backed by his authority.) But it would work better in a corporate sim, where as in this game simple economy is better (while better defined rules on voting and prestige are important).

[monk12]

Food doesn't really seem to be necessary; after all, if the problem is that Specialist Worlds aren't useful enough compared to General Worlds, why add another cost to them?