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[Leafsnail]

So, Lenglon, what do you think is "inconsistent" about the colour theory?  Are you expecting Vector to give no hints as to what the actual puzzle is in the flavour text or what?

[Tiruin]

Huh, coincidence that six did not accept the dress given the color motif. Check how many are third-party or scum in the OP-this is just a trivial point given that Jim started innocent.

Leaf's theory of Web encouraging a bus requires us to take for granted that web is bad at mafia. I would expect web to fight hard to live against a bus attempt at MYLO, and just not counterattack very hard. that way he still has a chance at winning there and then, without putting his scumbuddy in any danger. Web had nothing to lose and everything to gain, assuming that he was being bussed, from fighting to survive. so why didn't he?

Your theory of web not encouraging a bus requires us to believe that webadict is worse at mafia, because in that theory webadict made a suicidal claim for absolutely no reason.  You can't attack my theory if your theory's explanation is worse.

In any case, if you don't want scrutiny to be placed on your partner, laying down and dying isn't a bad option.

On this point, I'm unsure why the course of thought traveled straight at 'Web is bad at mafia' given the hypothetical A and B mentioned earlier Lenglon. WHile that (this?) didn't explain how Web's behavior was like, I could conclude that his defeatism was in perhaps to bolster your find on him given that..well, he sought out excuse in a most unfathomable way.

Vector's error.

Bring out the bus'ing idea, and you've a good plan. It didn't make sense that he didn't fight, but it makes sense that he gave up--who can contend with a logical point such as a tracking target?

...Still awaiting your piece of the cake, Lenglon.

Leafsnail: In the hypothetical scenario of you being scum, why would you direct the focus on Lenglon given that she proved Toaster as innocent? Occam's Razor?

I wouldn't.  I'd go for you because then I wouldn't have to go through tonnes of explanations as to how the scumteam did the night 2, 3 and 4 kills (I could instead just say "Tiruin did them").  The only benefit I can see of attacking Lenglon in this hypothetical is that the puzzle points to her.

Lenglon: On your case-why did you pick Toaster instead of me (I mean, yeah I can get that he's a scummy scum appliance back then), but you didn't pick me as your primary choice because. . .?

How do you trust me here?

Same to Leafsnail, except why he's picking me in that scenario.

griffday the hopefull prince has a lock of bright red hair.

I guess this is worth addressing - yeah, it's possible that other players like Tiruin had some kind of colour puzzle associated with them too.  But it doesn't matter now.

I've been musing about it and. . .
Quite not. I can't see any relation within that context of that color-line in between me and the nice prince other than throw Vector questions about his past given that I've a seeming relation with him (confirmed, given that..well, Sigfred doesn't talk about the younger brother for some reason).

Anyway: This puzzle of colors. It somehow doesn't still hold-it feels incomplete, but complete enough to find out who is what alignment. I mean, Horatio's description. It changed as of late.
So has mine when i wore a mask (some shoddy piece of cloth making me look good :O Check Adolf too. Back in the days, when we did a direct examination of the other person, even if specified or not, we just..looked at...err, generalities. Dresses. Stuff like that.) I'm wondering if that has a tie-in with the puzzle or just a foreshadowing of the final flavor which was the prelude of the Prince's in media res-like introduction.

jim had a "sopping red wound" in her chest.

Are you seriously telling me that this line goes against the "red represents sex" theory

Ok, woah, hold it. That kind of wound being red pertains to blood and not..
...oh gods why are you even saying that?!

Toaster: How did you become sentient again? Who took care of you, that you knew of your surroundings and learned to love the Prince? Do you specifically love the prince, or something else related to him?

[Toaster]

If Leafsnail hasn't got the puzzle cracked wide open with this post, then he deserves a damn Pulitzer for coming up with it.


Tiruin:

Toaster: How did you become sentient again? Who took care of you, that you knew of your surroundings and learned to love the Prince? Do you specifically love the prince, or something else related to him?

For the first two, no idea.  Nothing like that is ever mentioned- just something along the lines of "You were a rose until you were a girl."  It was specifically mentioned that this confused me.

I think the Prince is attractive.  He paid me some compliments and smiled, which felt like sunshine.  I'd love to stay here and feel that glow some more.  If I did stay here, I could also get lots of roses planted.


Also, on the lock of red hair- It is mentioned that Tiruin has brown hair with red undertones.  Perhaps it was red until SOMETHING made it more brown.

Spoiler: Wonder what that could be? (click to show/hide)

[Leafsnail]

Same to Leafsnail, except why he's picking me in that scenario.

It'd just be a lot easier.  For Lenglon I have to come up with an explanation for three nightkills, that can be attacked and become diversions from my main points.  For you I could just say "Tiruin did all the kills".

Anyway: This puzzle of colors. It somehow doesn't still hold-it feels incomplete, but complete enough to find out who is what alignment. I mean, Horatio's description. It changed as of late.

I agree.  There could well be another level to the puzzle that explains the rest of the setup.  I think I've identified the key part, though.

Ok, woah, hold it. That kind of wound being red pertains to blood and not..
...oh gods why are you even saying that?!

I once had a discussion with Vector about whether the uniforms in Attack on Titan were meant to be reminiscent of bondage gear.  She is definitely capable of thinking like this.

Also that scene seems to fit the colour themes pretty well.  Black hair because she's the god of death, white cuffs for the innocent prince and red for the yonic symbolism.

[Leafsnail]

The duck thing still sortof baffles me.  Maybe brown is meant to be a mix of other colours.

[Toaster]

Maybe we're all getting duckrolled.

[Tiruin]

...And you're doubting me only now...why? >.> Maaaybe if that were the case, Vector would just be describing my skin color because Vector.

Same to Leafsnail, except why he's picking me in that scenario.

It'd just be a lot easier.  For Lenglon I have to come up with an explanation for three nightkills, that can be attacked and become diversions from my main points.  For you I could just say "Tiruin did all the kills".

You could say the last, and what would make you think that it would work?

...For Lenglon..seems to be exactly what you did, however the main points would probably be. . .?

[Tiruin]

Ok, woah, hold it. That kind of wound being red pertains to blood and not..
...oh gods why are you even saying that?!

Also that scene seems to fit the colour themes pretty well.  Black hair because she's the god of death, white cuffs for the innocent prince and red for the yonic symbolism.

On the second part: Which I said before, i think it's a bit too much of a stretch to attach symbolism to everything (having learned it since the herring episode), or perhaps just to give emphasis to the situation.

When you said yonic, you really mean..? Simpler word on that adjective please. The dictionary...didn't help. Because the symbolism in that case would imply a lot deeper thing given the corpse in the bed.

I once had a discussion with Vector about whether the uniforms in Attack on Titan were meant to be reminiscent of bondage gear.  She is definitely capable of thinking like this.

Ah.
Ok! O_o
I...don't see how that relates to the situation in game.

[Tiruin]

...And I've still a sneaking suspicion that whoever killed Jin took out her heart.

That, or since she's the only person to be alive post-Night would probably mean that she needs to kill everynight.

Vector: Would you show any added details on a roleflip when it comes to how they live or die? Do you only remove the flavor in the role when it flips if there are any changes to said role?

[Leafsnail]

You could say the last, and what would make you think that it would work?

...For Lenglon..seems to be exactly what you did, however the main points would probably be. . .?

I dunno, I guess I didn't put that much thought into a hypothetical situation that is not the real one.  Lenglon did have a couple of barriers that appeared to make her not scum, while you do not.  I'd probably just make some shit up to get you lynched like I usually do as scum.

On the second part: Which I said before, i think it's a bit too much of a stretch to attach symbolism to everything (having learned it since the herring episode), or perhaps just to give emphasis to the situation.

It isn't when it keeps being brought up again and again meaning the same things.  You clearly have to make some inferences to solve the puzzle.

When you said yonic, you really mean..? Simpler word on that adjective please. The dictionary...didn't help. Because the symbolism in that case would imply a lot deeper thing given the corpse in the bed.

Vagina-esque.

Ah.
Ok! O_o
I...don't see how that relates to the situation in game.

I'm saying I think Vector is capable of writing sexual subtexts into things.  That's all really, it's not a major point.

[Tiruin]

I'm saying I think Vector is capable of writing sexual subtexts into things.  That's all really, it's not a major point.

Bleh, her writing skills are real good is what I thought you meant and that she knows how to allude ideas hidden behind the more superficial notions, is what I also thought you meant. Silly Leafsnail.

...And that I was thinking that there was something you'd say about free speculation. Ahah. :I

When you said yonic, you really mean..? Simpler word on that adjective please. The dictionary...didn't help. Because the symbolism in that case would imply a lot deeper thing given the corpse in the bed.

Vagina-esque.

My point exactly.

...We're talking about the chest.

On the second part: Which I said before, i think it's a bit too much of a stretch to attach symbolism to everything (having learned it since the herring episode), or perhaps just to give emphasis to the situation.

It isn't when it keeps being brought up again and again meaning the same things.  You clearly have to make some inferences to solve the puzzle.

Very good catch.

I hope Lenglon's not held up by RL though.. :/

You could say the last, and what would make you think that it would work?

...For Lenglon..seems to be exactly what you did, however the main points would probably be. . .?

I dunno, I guess I didn't put that much thought into a hypothetical situation that is not the real one.  Lenglon did have a couple of barriers that appeared to make her not scum, while you do not.  I'd probably just make some shit up to get you lynched like I usually do as scum.

Problem is, would it work? Also I found what I was referring to earlier - the bulletproof thingy in this quote

Scum may also be bulletproof..as referenced from...one of the games wherein Vector was scum and had a recruiting option when she was the only one last alive I think its a BYOR?

Huh?  I have no idea what you are talking about.  The two examples of bulletproof scum I would bring up:
- Paranormal Mafia Series: Tough Doppelganger.  It isn't just a "might be mafia" role, it's a mafia only role.
- Xylbot IRC Mafia (and thus KotM too): Godfather is immune to kills as well as inspections.

I don't see how you could regard it as an impossibility when it appears in two of the most popular rulesets.

[Vector]

wait a sec, um, Vector: has Horatio's hair changed color over the past days?

No.

How much can five days change a man?

Vector: Would you show any added details on a roleflip when it comes to how they live or die? Do you only remove the flavor in the role when it flips if there are any changes to said role?

I give you the initial PM and all mechanical role details of changed roles on death, and I remove any data that would directly endanger other players.  For example, if Ottofar had not been the first cohort member to flip, the group would not have been named "The Black Swan's Cohort," but rather just "The Cohort."

You will not get the N2, N3, etc. action/flavor PMs--or information that would be found in them--until the game ends.  Death has a cost, and you have the right to keep your own secrets or give them up as you will.


I'll write up the next flavor segment tonight or tomorrow morning.  I've got a pretty good idea of where I'm going with it.

[Lenglon]

Ok, Leaf, we appear to have totally different ideas on how a decoy works. What I've been trying to point out is that there are too many examples and yet you can't fit them all to the same rules. case in point, what color is jim?. This is a classic deception technique, similar to looking at a set of inkblots and trying to find a pattern, what their "real meaning" is. the reality is there is no pattern, and it's just a set of inkblots. You're finding images in the clouds. It's one of the easiest ways to make someone work really hard to trick themselves, like saying to someone, "I'll give you a hint before I say the number two", then slowly saying a series of numbers and clapping in a random, unrelated pattern... while shifting your right foot thirty degrees to the side two numbers before you say the number two each time. obvservers will pay very close attention to the obvious signal which contains ZERO meaning and fail to notice the real, far more subtle, one.

stop listening to the random clapping and look for the real signal.
Tiruin, you want to know why I trust you?
to be honest, I'm mostly going with my gut here, you don't "feel" malevolent.
however, I both think that the night action flavor from last night gives you very little time to have done anything to anyone without being spotted, and that your actions today in particular are unlikely to be those of scum, You would have probably picked a side between me and Leaf much sooner, rather than spend so much time questioning toaster, if that were the case.
Toaster, your vote post said you had three reasons:
You idiotically confused what time period i was talking about in my accusation of Leaf posting a complex idea requiring significant research "too fast". Leaf claimed to have the solution within seven hours of day start, in his first post of the day. yet he said that he needed data that he acquired today to reach that solution. that is awfully fast, especially if you consider what time of day the day started and compare it to leaf's normal activity patterns. leaf had his "solution" within the first hour of his normal activity patterns. He didn't collect any data today, he had it all overnight. so then, why:

PFP I guessed he was bussing when I realized Lenglon was scum earlier today.

He should have come to that conclusion overnight. what he remembers is when he claimed I was scum, not when he did his research. He is more focused on the appearance than the reality.
second, was the part I addressed, and if you don't like my statement of "the behavior that you are pointing out is behavior I have exhibited in every single game I have ever played regardless of alignment, and I invite you to find a SINGLE exception to this, ever." then too bad for you and your inability to understand the textbook definition of a null-tell. what next, are you going to say that the use of "and" is a scum-tell? I've done that in every game I've played too.
third, you complained that my answer to "why am I not dead yet" wasn't rock-solid, and you acknowledged that you were inviting WIFOM when you did so. well shockingly enough I don't know for certain, my best guess is that web didn't want to be caught blocking the known tracker at massclaim. Either way the entire line of questioning relies on WIFOM.
Leaf: no, really, if you're going to make the case that it would be easier to mark Tiruin as scum than me, then prove it. You said you'd make stuff up to make things look like that as scum, show us an example why don't you? after all, it'll be easy, won't it? you said so yourself.

[Leafsnail]

My point exactly.

...We're talking about the chest.

The chest/heart, an area of the body that is not traditionally associated with desire?

Problem is, would it work? Also I found what I was referring to earlier - the bulletproof thingy in this quote

To be honest, I don't really care whether a hypothetical scum-me in this scenario could have won by lynching you or not.  I don't know why you're expecting me to have a tonne of reasoning for what I'd do as any given alignment.

The bulletproof thing was, iirc, because Lenglon was trying to use the "Tiruin is bulletproof" as a reason to clear you, which is absurd.

[Lenglon]

The bulletproof thing was, iirc, because Lenglon was trying to use the "Tiruin is bulletproof" as a reason to clear you, which is absurd.

That is a lie, I never said such a thing.