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[Helgoland]

For what? This discussion? No. Advocating genocide? If there's ever been such a thing, I sure hope so.

[Culise]

Sooo...how 'bout them Iranian reactors?  Specifically, the six new VVER reactors Russia will be building at Bushehr and a new location.  Pretty much same news as ever, and at least officially, the enriched uranium necessary to run the reactors will come from Russia and spent fuel returned to Russia to be reprocessed, but considering the timing with the nuclear talks just next week, it's a bit awkward to announce it now.

[Sheb]

'It' in this context referring to wars that were quite openly planned as wars of extermination.^{Citation needed}

[Helgoland]

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find.

It does not matter how many [Jews] there are. We will sweep them into the sea.

I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.

Hell, that last quote has its own wikipedia page.

[Sheb]

That only refer to the 1948 war, and that's not an official goal or anything, just at best some off-hands comments by officials. Doesn't constitute policy any more than Churchill's rambling about nuking Moscow means the West was out to exterminate Russians.

I also do not remember any massacre in the Jewish settlements occupied by the Arab armies.

[Helgoland]

I also do not remember any massacre in the Jewish settlements occupied by the Arab armies.

Well, the quote that set all this off referred to that war, among others.
What Jewish settlements occupied by Arab armies? Luckily the Israelis won that war, or this whole discussion would be rather academic.
And if Lavrov publicly (!) said Ukraine needed to be crushed and the current leadership in Kiev hung in the street, would you dismiss that as off-hand comments as well? This is all about intent, and intent is better judged by ill-thought-out comments than by carefully crafted press releases.

Again:

Or do you seriously believe the Arabs would've been content with installing a slightly different bureaucracy?

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Anyway...

Sooo...how 'bout them Iranian reactors?  Specifically, the six new VVER reactors Russia will be building at Bushehr and a new location.  Pretty much same news as ever, and at least officially, the enriched uranium necessary to run the reactors will come from Russia and spent fuel returned to Russia to be reprocessed, but considering the timing with the nuclear talks just next week, it's a bit awkward to announce it now.

Wasn't there an anouncement some time ago that an agreement on the Iranian nuclear program was within reach? I haven't heard anything about that in quite some time... I guess we're seeing some repercussions of the Ukraine crisis here.

[Sheb]

The Isralis took 10 months to win that war. I also don't remember any massacre of Jews occurring in the various Arab countries. Sure, many were expelled, but it was ethnic cleansing, not extermination.

[Helgoland]

So because they didn't go after some Jews it was all nice and dandy? But I am having some difficulty finding sources, if only because I don't go past wikipedia...

[Sheb]

I'm not claiming everything is fine and dandy, I'm just disputing your claim that it was a war of extermination, kinda like I disputed Sergarr's claim that the Israeli were conducting a genocide on Palestinians. And you'll not accuse me of claiming everything Israel does is fine and dandy, will you? :p

[Helgoland]

Nanana, I meant the Arabs. After the 1967 war some pogroms occured, actually, but I guess these weren't organized by the state. It's a real problem that all our political vocabulary is geared towards Europe 1789-1945, and not towards the muddled sort of conflict that is much more common. Hell, we don't even have language to differentiate between a countries actual army, armed forces under its control, armed forces kinda under its control, armed forces nominally under its control, armed forces not under its control but acting to support it, etc etc etc.

[Sheb]

Doesn't German have words for that? I though you guys had words for everything. 

I'm also not sure I understand what you were trying to say. That the Arab states were not trying to exterminate Jews, but that there was a grassroot Jewish extermination movement?

Sometime I cannot help but think that your Germaneness makes you prone to see Jewish extermination everywhere.

[10ebbor10]

Sooo...how 'bout them Iranian reactors?  Specifically, the six new VVER reactors Russia will be building at Bushehr and a new location.  Pretty much same news as ever, and at least officially, the enriched uranium necessary to run the reactors will come from Russia and spent fuel returned to Russia to be reprocessed, but considering the timing with the nuclear talks just next week, it's a bit awkward to announce it now.

Not really. There's no overlap whatsoever between military technology and these VVER reactors. If anything, this weakens the Iranian argument, which is that they need domestic nuclear technology because nobody let's them have any foreign stuff.

These VVER reactors are a great benefit for the success of the talks.

[Helgoland]

I'm also not sure I understand what you were trying to say. That the Arab states were not trying to exterminate Jews, but that there was a grassroot Jewish extermination movement?

That's... fairly accurate, actually. Many pogroms throughout history have been spontaneous actions of riled-up mobs; government-organized extermination only came into fashion in the 20th century.
And there's a fair bit of truth in your last sentence. Keep in mind though that your political leanings may have a similar - weaker, but still present - effect

[Sheb]

I don't know enough about the period to rule that last one out, but I don't know enough to support it either. Were they antisemites among the Arabs? Well, yeah, of course. Was that sentiment widespread to the point that a second Holocaust would have taken place had the Arabs army won? I seriously doubt that was the case. Again, I don't know of a single massacre of Jewish settlers during the 1948 war by Arab armies, grassroot or otherwise.

And even if that was the case, you can't really call that a war of extermination, right?

And you're probably right about my political leaning. Although I don't think I'm nearly as pro-Palestinian as you may believe, it's just that burningpet's presence made me defend the other side.

[Helgoland]

Weaker, but still present, yeah. Kinda the same thing applies to what I say - there's very few non-BP-like pro-Israel people around.