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[nenjin]

To be honest, it still feels a little weird to see games that had their start here in these forums being sold on Steam. Cool! But still a little weird.

but when the base is wide enough, people will take it higher.

It's interesting how a physics principle dovetails human creativity so nicely. It's probably long overdue time that I gave Towns a try.

[Hugehead]

There are no Dwarf Fortress clones for me, because for me DF isn't just fort mode, it's a history generator and adventuring simulator as well. Because of those reasons I don't see Towns or Gnomoria or Goblin Camp or whatever as DF clones (and the only one I would call a fort mode clone out of them is Gnomoria), in fact I would say Empyrea and Ultima Ratio Regum are much closer to being DF clones than any of the previously listed ones. And as it's been said, there are no original ideas, just people melding other's ideas together until they get something of their own.

[MoLAoS]

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

They both eventually lead to the same places in my opinion: homogenization of features and the bare minimum effort of implementation. This has in a sense already happened to the aRPG in my opinion. Diablo spawned an entire subculture of game mechanics, shared rules, expectations and tropes. While that's less of an issue for "DF-likes" because of the inherent complexity of the original game.....can anyone say that the game they've made, inspired by DF, has come even close to the depth of the ideas and mechanics that inspired them? It's part of the reason I haven't tried Towns, Gnomoria, Goblin Town or w/e it's called. While Towns is certainly doing different things, I've never been able to shake the feeling about any of these games that they're still largely following in the footsteps of DF. Kind of like how Titan Quest is Diablo, only in Greece and with a different class system. Titan Quest was good. But it never really trumped Diablo. And hey! That's ok, everyone should be proud their game is being sold independently on Steam, it doesn't need to *beat* DF. But there is always a danger that the very ideas that underpin the genre become diluted when they are so widely reproduced.

And I guess I have to say this because I set myself up for it: DF isn't wholly original either. It's a melding of genres and an ideas, along with some truly novel execution, that has risen it to the level of <Game>-like. And that's what people should really be striving for.

We've seen with MMO and RPG games how awful a huge glut is. Honestly the vast majority of MMOs truly lack the WORLD that games like UO were trying to propagate. I've noticed that when genres tend to explode, they explode while sadly focusing on the wrong mechanic. What was actually interesting becomes lost.

For this reason I prefer medium expansions along multiple avenues, rather than focus by a hundred games on one popular idea.

[Girlinhat]

Well, if you guys say so... What made me angry was thinking that someone was making profit with DF's ideas, just like Robert Plant did to Jake Holmes... but that seems far from reality

Sorry I just had to lol at stuff like this.

I forget who said it, but during one thread about a voxel mining game, someone say "I'm tired of all these Minecraft-Likes" and someone responded "I'm tired of all these Doom-Likes".

DF is in a genre - granted it's not a very populated genre, but it IS a genre of indirect colony builder.  You can't claim a genre as your own property, and these sort of 'stolen idea' arguments only last for a while.  Once a few games of the genre come out, people acknowledge that this is a legitimate idea.

Ultimately, before making a thread like this, ask yourself two questions:
1: How would this look if I were talking about an FPS title?
If you take a look at all the call of duty, halo, unreal tournament, battlefield, ect. titles, there's a LOT of them.  If you went up saying "I hate this game because it has all the same things as Call of Duty!" then you'd just sound silly.  The only difference here, is that the 'indirect colony builder' genre type isn't very large.

2: Does your argument help gaming as an industry?
I assume you're making this thread because you like DF and want to keep its integrity safe?  That's cool!  But having more variety of the same genre isn't a pain.  Take Doctor Who for example: Many people said that the new series reboot would ruin the reputation of the old series, but it actually did a lot for young viewers to get interested and go watch the old versions that had come out before they were born!  It made a new series AND rekindled interest in the old one!  And then on your argument, you're essentially saying that it's bad for someone else to come out with a game that plays the same as one game you like.  This means that you'll only be satisfied if DF is the ONLY game available - this is not constructive to the gaming industry.  This argument ensures very little variety, and the only innovation coming from one source.  If you like a type of game, you should promote that type of gameplay, and encourage others to build upon it, making newer and fresher ideas to keep the genre interesting and challenging.  Remember, Toady is one developer, he can't think of everything - the Towns folks might have new ideas (like how to make the game more accessible and less menu-mazes).

So yeah, in conclusion, everything you said is wrong.

[werty892]

Well, if you guys say so... What made me angry was thinking that someone was making profit with DF's ideas, just like Robert Plant did to Jake Holmes... but that seems far from reality

Sorry I just had to lol at stuff like this.

I forget who said it, but during one thread about a voxel mining game, someone say "I'm tired of all these Minecraft-Likes" and someone responded "I'm tired of all these Doom-Likes".

Corneroids. Which has apparently dissipated. But Starmade seems alot better.

[Xantalos]

blah blah imitations derp

Everything creative ever is an imitation. Even the Bibble and Jawsyeh were based on earlier gods, which were based on earlier gods, and so on.
Misspellings intentional.

[jhxmt]

Unethical because it is making profit using someone else's ideas.

I'd be interested to see you list the original, truly unique ideas that you think Towns (or any other game) is taking from DF (or any other game).  I suspect the list may not contain quite so many unique entries as you're assuming.

As others have said: shoulders of giants, building on previous ideas, etc etc.  There's a reason that most creative works have slightly-similar races of dwarves, or elves, or fish-people or bird-people.  We're a species that loves tropes.  Hell, you might as well claim that Tolkein was simply making a profit using the ideas of the Icelandic sagas centuries before.  A cursed ring that brings doom to those around it?  SUCH A RIP OFF, SO UNETHICAL!

[Neonivek]

It is unethical to use someone elses ideas and pass them off as your own.

I don't think Towns is really pretending they are super duper original.

[Zangi]

What about when people start saying their stuff is better then your stuff, but based their stuff off of your stuff?

[Neonivek]

What about when people start saying their stuff is better then your stuff, but based their stuff off of your stuff?

Well lets say you build a tower of bricks.

I take your tower and I put another brick way at the top.

Certainly mine is taller, but I used the tower you already created to support it.

That is how videogames evolve. By building off the foundation of the ones before it.

[Infuriated]

Towns isn't that bad, Gnomoria is real close. But in the end it doesn't really matter, they all have their unique flare and I couldn't be happier that DFlikes are sprouting up.

If I were Toady I'd mark it as a milestone in my life, creating a niche deep enough to inspire others.

[Stworca]

So yeah, in conclusion, everything you said is wrong.

This sums up any discussions on these forums, at one point or another.

[miauw62]

If I were Toady I'd mark it as a milestone in my life, creating a niche deep enough to inspire others.

This.