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[Krevsin]

Dwarf Fortress is so unoriginal that Towns probably looks similar by coincidence. I mean, really, it's like some lazy programmer slapped Tolkien onto a generic management sim, then gave it shitty enough graphics to be called unique. Probably just looked at Sims one day and said "needs more dwarves", and now he's rolling in money because of it. At least Towns is a real game with a real sale model, not some block factory that guilt-trips you into donating.

Not sure if trolling...

... or monumentally retarded.

[Gamerboy4life]

Dwarf Fortress is so unoriginal that Towns probably looks similar by coincidence. I mean, really, it's like some lazy programmer slapped Tolkien onto a generic management sim, then gave it shitty enough graphics to be called unique. Probably just looked at Sims one day and said "needs more dwarves", and now he's rolling in money because of it. At least Towns is a real game with a real sale model, not some block factory that guilt-trips you into donating.

Not sure if trolling...

... or monumentally retarded.

I think it was more of an ironic statement than either.



I don't see why people would get worked up about this. Like someone said earlier, it brings more people to dwarf fortress, and to be honest, dwarf fortress doesn't need nor have competition; it's a free game. It's not like anyone's stealing money from Toady because they're playing Towns.

[MoLAoS]

As the resident towns basher/complainer it never occurred to me to complain because it was DF inspired.

It was more of a Hinterland style game than DF, with minecraft block building added. Hardly a primary DF clone.

Plus the whole existence of genres is based of copying dame designs.

Do people really make yearly threads on here complaining about Towns? lol.

[BigD145]

There is a towns thread already you know.

Din't find through the search, mate!

Here it is. Was being quite deep

Please, for the love/hate of Armok lock this thread. It already exists.

[Lectorog]

This thread is about DFlikes, focused on Towns. The other thread is a genuine Towns thread with legitimate discussion. This thread hasn't come up for at least a month.

[nenjin]

And like herpes, it's back again.

[burningpet]

I wasn't aware of all this stuff, ain't posting since almost a year 

Well, if you guys say so... What made me angry was thinking that someone was making profit with DF's ideas, just like Robert Plant did to Jake Holmes... but that seems far from reality

You probably mean jimmy page.

[Neonivek]

Honestly I don't mind people eventually making new threads so the old ones don't have a bajilliongajillionbabillion pages.

[burningpet]

But is this thread about DF like games being unethical because, well, they are like DF, or Towns being unethical because its a DF like game? because while towns does take a lot from DF, its hardly the most DF like of the whole bunch.

Anyway, i think that every game helps the genre and it even helps getting new people to DF (more than you would imagine). i havent seen a single game which is a direct copy to DF from the whole bunch. every one is taking the base concept, or base mechanics to a slightly different direction.

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

[PrimusRibbus]

But is this thread about DF like games being unethical because, well, they are like DF, or Towns being unethical because its a DF like game? because while towns does take a lot from DF, its hardly the most DF like of the whole bunch.

Anyway, i think that every game helps the genre and it even helps getting new people to DF (more than you would imagine). i havent seen a single game which is a direct copy to DF from the whole bunch. every one is taking the base concept, or base mechanics to a slightly different direction.

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

Agreed.

If there's one thing I've noticed about video game genres over the past 25 years, it's that your genre is either growing or it's dying.

Having seen multiple genres that I love die completely over the years (it's been 13 years since I've played a new console strategy-RPG similar to Ogre Battle), I never want to hedge my bets on a single game representing a genre.

[nenjin]

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

They both eventually lead to the same places in my opinion: homogenization of features and the bare minimum effort of implementation. This has in a sense already happened to the aRPG in my opinion. Diablo spawned an entire subculture of game mechanics, shared rules, expectations and tropes. While that's less of an issue for "DF-likes" because of the inherent complexity of the original game.....can anyone say that the game they've made, inspired by DF, has come even close to the depth of the ideas and mechanics that inspired them? It's part of the reason I haven't tried Towns, Gnomoria, Goblin Town or w/e it's called. While Towns is certainly doing different things, I've never been able to shake the feeling about any of these games that they're still largely following in the footsteps of DF. Kind of like how Titan Quest is Diablo, only in Greece and with a different class system. Titan Quest was good. But it never really trumped Diablo. And hey! That's ok, everyone should be proud their game is being sold independently on Steam, it doesn't need to *beat* DF. But there is always a danger that the very ideas that underpin the genre become diluted when they are so widely reproduced.

And I guess I have to say this because I set myself up for it: DF isn't wholly original either. It's a melding of genres and an ideas, along with some truly novel execution, that has risen it to the level of <Game>-like. And that's what people should really be striving for.

[Kesc]

But is this thread about DF like games being unethical because, well, they are like DF, or Towns being unethical because its a DF like game? because while towns does take a lot from DF, its hardly the most DF like of the whole bunch.

Anyway, i think that every game helps the genre and it even helps getting new people to DF (more than you would imagine). i havent seen a single game which is a direct copy to DF from the whole bunch. every one is taking the base concept, or base mechanics to a slightly different direction.

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

Unethical because it is making profit using someone else's ideas.

[nenjin]

But is this thread about DF like games being unethical because, well, they are like DF, or Towns being unethical because its a DF like game? because while towns does take a lot from DF, its hardly the most DF like of the whole bunch.

Anyway, i think that every game helps the genre and it even helps getting new people to DF (more than you would imagine). i havent seen a single game which is a direct copy to DF from the whole bunch. every one is taking the base concept, or base mechanics to a slightly different direction.

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

Unethical because it is making profit using someone else's ideas.

Everyone, EVERYONE, involved in a creative exercise is standing on the shoulders of those that came before them. It's true in writing, art and programming. No one has ever created something amazing while existing in an idea vacuum. The mere exposure to cool ideas is what caused them to create something, and either knowingly or unknowingly incorporate or build on the ideas they've been exposed to.

There is a difference between that, and ripping someone's source code to build your own thing.

[burningpet]

I personally would rather see X50 DF likes than X50 CoD likes or X50 super mario likes.

They both eventually lead to the same places in my opinion: homogenization of features and the bare minimum effort of implementation. This has in a sense already happened to the aRPG in my opinion. Diablo spawned an entire subculture of game mechanics, shared rules, expectations and tropes. While that's less of an issue for "DF-likes" because of the inherent complexity of the original game.....can anyone say that the game they've made, inspired by DF, has come even close to the depth of the ideas and mechanics that inspired them? It's part of the reason I haven't tried Towns, Gnomoria, Goblin Town or w/e it's called. While Towns is certainly doing different things, I've never been able to shake the feeling about any of these games that they're still largely following in the footsteps of DF. Kind of like how Titan Quest is Diablo, only in Greece and with a different class system. Titan Quest was good. But it never really trumped Diablo. And hey! That's ok, everyone should be proud their game is being sold independently on Steam, it doesn't need to *beat* DF. But there is always a danger that the very ideas that underpin the genre become diluted when they are so widely reproduced.

Yeah, but for every titan quest, there's also a Din's quest. for me personally, the Buried Towns idea which has evolved from the succession games in here, game+ and the bones files is more than enough to justify towns existence and act as a progression to the genre. while still far from perfectly executed, and while still not yet adopted by others (although, there are some devs who mentioned to me they are thinking of doing something similar in their games), i think its a good example of how a genre can evolve. i haven't played gnomoria in a long time now, but i am sure you can find one or two mechanics in there that are a progress to the genre as well. and well, yeah, a genre mostly grow in width rather than in height. this probably has more to do with risk aversion than creativity (when we started, there was DF, us and goblin camp which was already showing signs of death. almost everywhere people told us we were mad to think steam would ever accept us or that this genre is more than a crazy niche. now there are dozens) but when the base is wide enough, people will take it higher. just like what toady did with the Sim/Theme genre base. you can also see it in other genres as well.

[Vendayn]

There should only ever be one RPG, MMO, FPS, Strategy, RTS, Simulation, Tycoon game and any other genre I missed. Otherwise they are all clones!