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[Insanegame27]

I actually mean that. Sure, the grind to get something is real, but it never actually forces you to pay 2 win. The only (possible) exceptions may be the incubator stuff (unless someone posts otherwise, working on the quest to get the kubrows glitched out and never gave me a power core, and they cost something horrid to build).
I include the modification system for frames/weapons in that assessment, too. It makes any build equally as viable as any other (with exception of cheesing promo missions)
In warframe, a great many of the great weapons are low cost (then again, I run with grakata + dual viper on rhino. On my way to THREE GRAKATA!).

[Broseph Stalin]

You know what... It has been a while but I think now is the time this has occurred

Crafting

No I am not saying, when it is misused, or anything like that. I am listing anytime a game has a crafting system now as my pet peeve.

If only because I cannot think of a single game that has ever had a good worthwhile crafting system (Maybe Magic Pengel)... It is always a level of tedium made to give you an IDEA of ownership over what you make but because it deals with presets it just doesn't work that way.

Even Minecraft the crafting is often the worst part of the game at the best of time. Minecraft really might as well be a Resident Evil game with its "get a material, to make a pick, to get a material, to get a pick, to get a material, to get a gate, to get another material, to get a pick, to get the ultimate material, to get a pick" (key to get a key to get a key).

Which you know what would be fine on its own.

Except now crafting systems are starting to become a somewhat standard feature in games... but unlike "RPG-elements" which was a welcome chance of pace... Crafting elements are just as terrible as they ever were. A lot of games are coming out with crafting as a feature.

I was going this direction but Cataclysm brought me back, the crafting system is very satisfying.

[SeriousConcentrate]

I agree with Neo that the exploration model of crafting can be extremely tedious. There's nothing worse than the beginning of the game taking minutes to mine through things so you can get better tools to reduce the time... by which point you've probably already got everything you need. Just gimme the fast digging stuff immediately and let ME worry about how long I want to grind for other things, thanks.

On the other hand, weapon and armor crafting can (depending on the game) be extremely satisfying. I remember that in Kingdoms of Amalur in particular you could make some really, really strong weapons (stronger than pretty much anything you could find) and blacksmithing was half the fun to me. But then, to borrow a term from Jesse Cox, I'm pretty much a loot whore and finding materials and implementing them is something I enjoy a lot.

[UXLZ]

I was irritated by the crafting in Kingdoms of Amalur because the level-appropriate stuff you could craft totally outclassed the majority of cool-looking uniques you could find.

Oh, and KoA was decently fun, but one thing that always bugged me SO much about that game were all the combat animations. EVERY TIME you started an attack chain it would start from when the weapon was holstered. So if you've just finished attacking and still have your weapon drawn, the game would snap the model back to the weapon being sheathed.

[SeriousConcentrate]

I don't remember that about the weapon animations, but I can see how you would be annoyed about function overcoming form a lot. I just liked stacking a weapon with the effects I wanted on it (be damned how it looked) and laying waste to the opposition.

Plus the chakram weapons were SUPER fun.

[Calidovi]

What are good ways to make crafting enjoyable and not feel like a rip-off of every other game with a crafting element?

[UXLZ]

Center the entire game around crafting. Something like Factorio is a good example. Otherwise it tends to just be "collect these random bits of crap then click the button to make stuff.")

[miauw62]

the problem is that "crafting" doesnt actually mean anything

youre turning resources into a usually more useful resource, which occurs in basically most games at some level.

[Sergarr]

the problem is that "crafting" doesnt actually mean anything

youre turning resources into a usually more useful resource, which occurs in basically most games at some level.

Yeah, good crafting exists in pretty much every game and it's called "combat". You convert your time, skills, ammo, healing potions and equipment's durability into new stuff in a highly interesting manner, even though you can usually predict what you'll be getting (barring randomness on loot) - because combat is an interesting process.

Clicking on a menu, or playing a primitive minigame, or tetris-ing the required components into position - those are not interesting. Thus, crafting is usually seen as a not interesting thing - because it is not interesting!

[Gunner-Chan]

I liked the crafting in underrail actually, if anything because if you just dabble in it then it just helps you get weapons and armor you actually might want at a particular moment. Though if you specialize because you want to actually do it more then it makes actually more powerful stuff. Plus you really don't actually need to do it at all if you don't want to.

[Shadowlord]

Thus, crafting is usually seen as a not interesting thing - because it is not interesting!

Tell that to the Dead Rising series.

[Neonivek]

Thus, crafting is usually seen as a not interesting thing - because it is not interesting!

Tell that to the Dead Rising series.

Not... the best... example... Given how its latest outing went.

[Damiac]

Crafting and fetch quests are basically the same thing, at least as implemented in most games.  Collect X of Y material, turn it in/craft it into item Z.

Sometimes there's a skill tied to crafting.  Everyone knows you need that skill, because the crafted stuff is going to be the best.  Alternatively, the crafted stuff isn't the best and the crafting skill is a waste.

I guess the crafting in path of exile is OK.  The crafting items are the currency, and each item does a different thing. So you are creating your own unique item out of a base item you already have and want.  Of course the PoE crafting system is RNG more than anything...

In minecraft, early on the crafting was billed as "You build the thing you want in the little grid, then you get it!".  Of course it doesn't really work that way, it's a bunch of recipes.  So I guess the twist there was the combinations weren't all disclosed, the players had to figure them out.  Or, as almost everyone did, you look up the crafting guide and alt-tab to it every 10 seconds while you're learning the game.


In fact, there's my peeve.  Games that make you play a pointless and un-loseable minigame to perform an action in game.  For example, minecraft crafting, fallout 3 hacking and lockpicking, elder scrolls lockpicking...

If you can reasonably fail the minigame and it makes a difference to the game, it doesn't count.  Fallout and Elder Scrolls lockpicking in theory should be in this catagory, but the sheer numbers of lockpicks they throw at you, combined with the ease of the minigame, puts it into the pointless and un-loseable catagory for me.

Deus-ex hacking is close, but you can get detected by guards during the hack attempt, as well as get bonus XP, so it's not entirely pointless.  Being able to savescum at the terminals does make the whole thing a little pointless, but savescumming is a whole other thing...

[Rolan7]

I'd say Oblivion lockpicking passes, because that minigame never stopped being difficult at high levels (bypassing with the skeleton key doesn't count, daedra artifacts should be powerful).  But Skyrim and Fallout lockpicking is really easy yeah.

Ooh one thing that made the very similar minigame in Thief good:  Lockpicking didn't pause time.  So sometimes there was a lot of time pressure, if you hadn't taken out the local patrols.

[UXLZ]

It was just a time sink, though. Even without the skeleton key you basically had infinite lockpicks after early-game.