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[Krevsin]

The elves are all white too. Dwarves too! :V

I'm thinking back and I don't remember any non-white people in the Witcher 1, but it's been a while and I only played through it once. Or in 2, which I've been playing recently.

(I haven't played 3, though, because they raised the system requirements to the point that it won't work on my computer)

Bonus points for Othello not being Black either. Though that is Shakespeare.

Though if he was... I am not quite sure the play is as progressive as ignorant people say it is (What with him being called a barbarian and him... proving them exactly right)

---

Anyhow Elves and Dwarves tend to be white anyhow.

Elves are Snooty upper Englishmen without the accent. While Dwarves are Scottish.

They aren't just white, they aren't even fantasy versions of nationalities that are separate geographically by more then 5 feet.

Actually, dwarves are stand-ins for jewish people. Elves are the celtic folk (the irish, the welsh et cetera).

Anyway, saying that the game is not representative of minorities because everyone's white is both stupid and weirdly selective about history of medieval europe. Guess what minority was the most oppressed during the european middle ages, who lived in ghettos, were blamed for everything that went wrong and were forced to take up jobs none of the christian residents wanted? The jewish, of course. Guess who represents the jewish in Witcher 3? The elves and dwarves.

Also, since both the developers and Sapkowski are polish, the world presented reflects poland and polish issues with discrimination, which is based less on skin colour and more on nationality and religion. Art reflects the world of its creator and so on and so forth.

[Neonivek]

Krevsin... Ignoring the factual mistakes you put in there.

You must take how they act... Not their situation. Since if you take their situation then their situation more strongly reflects the Puritans then the Jews. The whole "Racism" can easily apply to anything. Are the Dark Elves in Elder Scrolls a stand in for Jews?

Dwarves still act Scottish and the Elves REALLY do not act Celtic their architecture is just painted in very broad Celtic faux symbolism. The Elves are no more Celtic then Evangeleon are Christians.

[Bohandas]

Well because White means Caucasian which means that they trace their heritage back to... well... The Caucasis.

Otherwise "White" other definition only means you have to be fair skinned and of European origins. Which would of course mean a LOT of other people are included that are normally considered "Not white" such as Gypsies.

It helps that race is COMPLETELY made up and has no scientific or real historical basis.

EDIT: Actually, this is all really, really off-topic, so I'm trimming my part out.  Well, except for the fact that I still dispute your definition of "white meaning Caucasian" as "originating from the Caucasus" on the grounds that most "white" populations didn't; "white meaning Caucasian" only continued to exist because the latter became completely divorced from the corresponding theories of geographic location of the Caucasian archetype (not origin), where Negroids and Mongoloids were not and thus did not.  I'll simply leave it be at that without explaining further because it's really not within the scope of this thread. ^_^

"Mongoloid" also has the problem of being ambiguois as the word can also mean people with down syndrome. That probably helped push it out of use as well

[Krevsin]

Krevsin... Ignoring the factual mistakes you put in there.

You must take how they act... Not their situation. Since if you take their situation then their situation more strongly reflects the Puritans then the Jews.

Dwarves still act Scottish and the Elves REALLY do not act Celtic.

I never said the dwarves acted jewish, I said they were stand-ins for the jewish.

The way they "act" is irrelevant because they are a representation, not an insert of a cultural stereotype. You need to look beyond their own behaviour and into how their portrayal and how they are seen by other humans in-world correlates to real world stereotypes and historic fact.

Dwarves "act scottish" (they have an accent) but they are very obviously based on the jewish. The very fact they are represented as a separate, easily-distinguishable-from-humans race is indicative of this because it is basically the fact that judaism is a closed religion (one can traditionally only become jewish by being born into a jewish family) made visible. The stereotypes present in-universe also make painfully clear the notion that dwarves are the universe's jews, as they are seen as greedy, wealthy and cheap by humans. All of the banks that I recall from the games are operated by dwarves (save for one that was taken over by humans), which historically correlates to the fact that most banks in the middle ages were operated by jewish people (because christendom deemed banking a sinful profession, unfit for true believers for a long time).

Oh and another thing, how exactly do dwarves act scottish? Do they hail from a harsh, unwelcomig land with little natural resources that forced them into a very meagre lifestyle full of conflict and internal strife, where the only allegiance one can count on is one's semi-familial relation to their clan? Or is it just the fact that they like to drink and have a scottish accent? Because the former is something everyone in the Witcherverse likes to do and the latter is something they share with Skelligers (who are a mix of scots and vikings).


As for the elves, they do not act celtic, but their language sounds like it'd go along fabulously with Gaelic.



Oh, and they don't act British because everyone in the Witcherverse acts British (Except the Nilfgaardians). The peasants speak with such a thick country accent it makes my ears bleed after a while and most of the non-peasants sound like they're from "oop north".

In fact even defining what "British" is something you'll have trouble with because "Britain" is a mixture of england, wales, scotland and ireland (only northern part in the present). So by your definitions, everyone (dwarves, elves and humans) "acts british" (Except for Nilfgaardians).

[Neonivek]

Oh and another thing, how exactly do dwarves act scottish? Do they hail from a harsh, unwelcomig land with little natural resources that forced them into a very meagre lifestyle full of conflict and internal strife, where the only allegiance one can count on is one's semi-familial relation to their clan? Or is it just the fact that they like to drink and have a scottish accent?

because after all that is said and done those are just extra details lumped onto it.

Closer to "What if the scotts were hated like the Jews" rather then "Ok here are our Jew Expies". They are hardly the Darcsins from Valkyria Chronicles.

Oh, and they don't act British because everyone in the Witcherverse acts British (Except the Nilfgaardians). The peasants speak with such a thick country accent it makes my ears bleed after a while and most of the non-peasants sound like they're from "oop north".

In fact even defining what "British" is something you'll have trouble with because "Britain" is a mixture of england, wales, scotland and ireland (only northern part in the present). So by your definitions, everyone (dwarves, elves and humans) "acts british" (Except for Nilfgaardians).

Sorry. English. I get those confused from time to time.

They are either "Low English", "Middle English", or "High English". Elves are traditionally "High English"... Humans are middle-low... and Dwarves are Scottish. Then if they need another group they will use Ireland (typically the smaller races)

It is why Fantasy Europe is frequently Fantasy Britain.

Though, lets just assume you are right and the Dwarves are Jewish... They would still be British Jews. So they just converted Scotland to Judaism... except for... you know... the belief systems.

Bonus points to Assassin's Creed for transforming ALL the knights into English Knights, even the ones that weren't traditionally English.

---

Now if they want to include another group that isn't Britain in the rare times they do. Typically they will be Fantasy Rome and Fantasy Racist Version Of Mongols.

[Krevsin]

Oh and another thing, how exactly do dwarves act scottish? Do they hail from a harsh, unwelcomig land with little natural resources that forced them into a very meagre lifestyle full of conflict and internal strife, where the only allegiance one can count on is one's semi-familial relation to their clan? Or is it just the fact that they like to drink and have a scottish accent?

because after all that is said and done those are just extra details lumped onto it.

Closer to "What if the scotts were hated like the Jews" rather then "Ok here are our Jew Expies". They are hardly the Darcsins from Valkyria Chronicles.

I didn't say dwarves are jewish, I said they were representations of jewish people. They are an allegory, an allusion if you will.

[Neonivek]

I think their situation is meant for you to draw parallels but I personally don't think you are meant to think they are cultural or racial expies of Jews.

Though I guess we should just agree to disagree. Since I don't think our differences can be resolved.

[Krevsin]

I think their situation is meant for you to draw parallels but I personally don't think you are meant to think they are cultural or racial expies of Jews.

Though I guess we should just agree to disagree. Since I don't think our differences can be resolved.

I'm not saying they are expies, they are an allegory.

[Neonivek]

I think their situation is meant for you to draw parallels but I personally don't think you are meant to think they are cultural or racial expies of Jews.

Though I guess we should just agree to disagree. Since I don't think our differences can be resolved.

I'm not saying they are expies, they are an allegory.

Ohhh... Then fine.

They are Expies of scots and allegory of Jews.

[Krevsin]

I think their situation is meant for you to draw parallels but I personally don't think you are meant to think they are cultural or racial expies of Jews.

Though I guess we should just agree to disagree. Since I don't think our differences can be resolved.

I'm not saying they are expies, they are an allegory.

Ohhh... Then fine.

They are Expies of scots and allegory of Jews.

Yep, pretty much.

Anyway, back on topic:
Helmets with horns
They make no sense. Your weapon would catch on the horns, a strike to the horns would knock your helmet right off.

[Neonivek]

I think their situation is meant for you to draw parallels but I personally don't think you are meant to think they are cultural or racial expies of Jews.

Though I guess we should just agree to disagree. Since I don't think our differences can be resolved.

I'm not saying they are expies, they are an allegory.

Ohhh... Then fine.

They are Expies of scots and allegory of Jews.

Yep, pretty much.

Anyway, back on topic:
Helmets with horns
They make no sense. Your weapon would catch on the horns, a strike to the horns would knock your helmet right off.

Ehhhh these kind of fall under what I call "Reality doesn't always make sense".

http://previews.123rf.com/images/evdoha/evdoha0905/evdoha090500991/4877986-Historic-samurai-armor-on-black-Stock-Photo-samurai-warrior.jpg

Certainly Vikings never actually had horned helmets but pointless embellishments are not exactly ahistorical.

[Metalax]

Honestly when was the last time you were playing a fantasy game and you saw Fantasy France or Fantasy Germany outside Dominions?

Warhammer Fantasy The Empire is fantasy Germany and Bretonia is Fantasy France.

[Bohandas]

Honestly when was the last time you were playing a fantasy game and you saw Fantasy France or Fantasy Germany outside Dominions?

The Terran empire in Warhammer 40K is fantasy Italian; mixing fantasy Roman with fantasy fascism.

[Culise]

Honestly when was the last time you were playing a fantasy game and you saw Fantasy France or Fantasy Germany outside Dominions?

Warhammer Fantasy The Empire is fantasy Germany and Bretonia is Fantasy France.

To be fair, though, Bretonnia borrows quite a lot from Britain as well, starting with the name.  And the Lady of the Lake.  And the King Under Mountain, if I recall properly (and it's been a long while and my acquaintance with WH was never more than passing, so I may not; that myth's also a lot more general than Wales or England in either case).  The emphasis on the Arthurian mythos is very much the English myths leavened with French additions like Lancelot. 

Really, though, I think that's part of it.  When you think about fantasy feudalism in general, it's usually a very Western European, Frankish sort of feudalism with an English veneer, which is understandably reminiscent of post-Norman England.  It is rarer that you see forms of manoralism or tenancy akin to early Rurikid Russia, Eastern Roman pronoia, or the complexity of a post-Interregnum Holy Roman Empire.  That said, what it sounded like Neon was irritated by the accents and other superficial details, so we may be just looking into this too hard.  I mean, I can pull out Dragon Age (though I never played past the first one, so I'm not familiar with Orlais beyond the "broad strokes" treatment it received there) and Mount and Blade for fantasy France and Germany.  The Elder Scrolls gave us Mesopotamian dwarves who were taller than humans.  Otherwise, I can't think of too much off the top of my head.

[Graknorke]

The "barbarians" were not amused.

They're just mad cuz bad.

-horny samurai helmet-

Wasn't the samurai's whole thing being impractical but intimidating?