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[Mrnocamera]

Just realized, most games (Spec ops: the line excluded)  are just "AMERICA SHALL KILL ALL TERRORISTS!   FUCK OTHER COUNTRY'S, WE ARE THE BEST!  SHOOT EVERYTHING!  YEAH!"

[Neonivek]

Just realized, most games (Spec ops: the line excluded)  are just "AMERICA SHALL KILL ALL TERRORISTS!   FUCK OTHER COUNTRY'S, WE ARE THE BEST!  SHOOT EVERYTHING!  YEAH!"

That is because they are made for the casual crowd and as such Lowest common denominator all around!

And casuals wonder why people dislike them so much. I don't, but that is because I know better.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

Actually, could be that the characters hands shake severely when they kill something the first, say...  twenty times?   And the recoil is increased until the characters either get training from someone, or get used to the recoil and mechanics of the gun, and the mechanics normally change each gun.

So, there is a slightly different way to compensate for it.

I suppose you could actually exploit the whole desensitising thing and at the end of the game throw a "look at the monster you've become" twist. Could work quite well but it would have to be done in a good enough way so it doesn't feel too cliche, forced or predictable. Using both game mechanics and natural satisfaction could be a good way to build a player up before breaking them back down.

[itisnotlogical]

For the discussion about making killing in an FPS unsatisfying: Dwarf Fortress's combat in Adventure mode would actually be pretty horrific to somebody who wasn't used to it. Fighting against human(oid) enemies isn't really unsatisfying, it's just that it's never as simple as stabbing them until they fall over and die cleanly. It's really a combination of the realistic combat and intense difficulty. Once you disable an opponent, you'd better move on to disabling the next one or you'll find yourself surrounded. Eventually, when all the bandits/kobolds/whatever are bleeding out and unable to fight back, it's a matter of going around and cutting their throats so that you can loot them and leave as quickly as possible. It's still fun in a certain sense of the word, but it's definitely grim.

It'd be harder to implement in an FPS, though. Maybe have it so that enemies aren't guaranteed to be die just because they fell down? They're out of the fight but still alive, moaning and clutching where you shot them. Since they're on the ground, you're less likely to notice them until after the fight's over, giving more time to notice that they're just lying in pain on the ground.

[Krevsin]

implementing pleas would also be effective.

Think about it. you have just defeated a whole platoon of german soldiers (provided you are fighting germans) when you hear moaning from somewhere. after a short search, you locate a young soldier, almost a boy, lying in the grass, clutching his bloodied gut with one hand and extending the other towards you, begging for life. "Bitte. Ich habe ein familie." he says, his voice quivering. You have been given an order not to leave any enemies alive, because they could betray your position if released or slow you down if kept as hostages.

what do you do?

now that is a game i would play the shit out of.

[Glloyd]

implementing pleas would also be effective.

Think about it. you have just defeated a whole platoon of german soldiers (provided you are fighting germans) when you hear moaning from somewhere. after a short search, you locate a young soldier, almost a boy, lying in the grass, clutching his bloodied gut with one hand and extending the other towards you, begging for life. "Bitte. Ich habe ein familie." he says, his voice quivering. You have been given an order not to leave any enemies alive, because they could betray your position if released or slow you down if kept as hostages.

what do you do?

now that is a game i would play the shit out of.

Exactly the kind of thing I was going for. A game that makes you feel like "All Quiet On the Western Front." That immerses you in the horror and cruelty of war. 'twould be a beautiful game. But of course, this:

Just realized, most games (Spec ops: the line excluded)  are just "AMERICA SHALL KILL ALL TERRORISTS!   FUCK OTHER COUNTRY'S, WE ARE THE BEST!  SHOOT EVERYTHING!  YEAH!"

Is true, so I doubt something like that would happen unless a group of people like us made an FPS. The Caucasian, typically male, typically American, buff, fearless protaganist must always win in shooters.

[nenjin]

Don't forget his tough, plain-spoken token black friend, who is probably a sergeant.

[Glloyd]

Don't forget his tough, plain-spoken token black friend, who is probably a sergeant.

Cigar optional, shotgun mandatory?

[nenjin]

Don't forget his tough, plain-spoken token black friend, who is probably a sergeant.

Cigar optional, shotgun mandatory?

No, they're both mandatory.

[itisnotlogical]

I just realized what a terrible game Rainbow Six 3 is in terms of portraying America in a good light.

"A paramilitary squad of one sheet-white American (but he has a Mexican name! Diversity!) and his elite team of European stereotypes go around the world with impunity, killing South American citizens on South American territory with only implied authority to do so. Some will surrender, and you totally can arrest them, but there's no penalty for blowing their brains out. Eventually, Rainbow succeeds in assassinating a Venezuelan non-combatant based purely on their own assessment of the threat he poses, based on their own investigation with no outside supervision."

I feel a bit bad about enjoying that game now. Damn you guilty pleasures.

Anyways:

Lame manuals
Seriously, nothing makes a game feel cheaper than having a no-effort manual printed on toilet paper. I'm not expecting a damn novel like the things that come with Blizzard games, but I'd like to see more than two slips of paper explaining the controls. And don't say that it costs more, because Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks had a beautiful manual while costing the same as CoD: Modern Warfare Mobilized, which had a shit manual.

[penguinofhonor]

Just realized, most games (Spec ops: the line excluded)  are just "AMERICA SHALL KILL ALL TERRORISTS!   FUCK OTHER COUNTRY'S, WE ARE THE BEST!  SHOOT EVERYTHING!  YEAH!"

That is because they are made for the casual crowd and as such Lowest common denominator all around!

And casuals wonder why people dislike them so much. I don't, but that is because I know better.

Are we lumping CoD kids in with casual players now? Because I really don't think the guy I met who likes to point out all the guns in Modern Warfare that his family owns is representative of casual gamers as a whole.

[Krevsin]

Lack of any manual whatsoever

I get that printing a fine manual is hard. But at the very least, you could have it online, on your site.

[Neonivek]

Are we lumping CoD kids in with casual players now?

Yes they are part of the same market.

[penguinofhonor]

I don't know many CoD kids who play Plants Vs Zombies, Animal Crossing, or any other iconic casual games. I think the people who buy all the new clone FPSes are their own market.

[Neonivek]

I don't know many CoD kids who play Farmville/Animal Crossing/[Other Casual Nintendo Game]. I think the people who buy all the new clone FPSes are their own market.

Look every market is going to have the annoying people we want to distance ourselves from.

But we don't create a new category for them just so we can say "well we aren't them".

The CoD kids have the same buying strategies as most casual gamers.