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[CognitiveDissonance]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Got a little bit of a double post going on up there. Just a heads up.
...
No Good, Meaningful First Person Shooters With A War Setting

Oh no, Nazi's/Russians/Japs/Viet Cong/TERRORISTS. ERMAGERD. AMERICA MUST DESTROY THEM ALL. Cue American murderboner. I don't want that. I want a meaningful first person shooter. Something like the Brothers in Arms series, but with no plot armor, less killing (by you) and better writing.

Oh right, thanks >.> stupid 504

For war games, there is no story per se... but have you tried the Red Orchestra series? They have utterly and completely spoiled me on shooter games, kind of what Dark Souls did to other RPGs. It's essentially multiplayer only, but damn...

[Mrnocamera]

AI NOT GETTING OUT OF THE BLOODY WAY!

The last of us is okay with this, because it makes Ellie get out of the way of doors when you walk towards them, but State of decay made me kill a survivor I was saving because I accidentally pushed them off while climbing down the cell tower.

AI, please be better.

[Glloyd]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Got a little bit of a double post going on up there. Just a heads up.
...
No Good, Meaningful First Person Shooters With A War Setting

Oh no, Nazi's/Russians/Japs/Viet Cong/TERRORISTS. ERMAGERD. AMERICA MUST DESTROY THEM ALL. Cue American murderboner. I don't want that. I want a meaningful first person shooter. Something like the Brothers in Arms series, but with no plot armor, less killing (by you) and better writing.

Oh right, thanks >.> stupid 504

For war games, there is no story per se... but have you tried the Red Orchestra series? They have utterly and completely spoiled me on shooter games, kind of what Dark Souls did to other RPGs. It's essentially multiplayer only, but damn...

That's why I mentioned Brother's In Arms. It has some semblance of a story. Spec Ops: the Line also had a good story, but that was because it was "The Heart Of Darkness" in a video game.

[Krevsin]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

[Mrnocamera]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

Game designers are too scared to make something good, with morals and a GOOD storyline.

[Krevsin]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

Game designers are too scared to make something good, with morals and a GOOD storyline.

but SpecOps: The Line was made, so at least we are on a good path.

[Xantalos]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

Game designers are too scared to make something good, with morals and a GOOD storyline.

To me that sentence doesn't make sense.

[Mrnocamera]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

Game designers are too scared to make something good, with morals and a GOOD storyline.

To me that sentence doesn't make sense.

Basically, your character gives a shit if they shoot someone in the head, the storyline is deep, Ect Ect.

[CognitiveDissonance]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

Game designers are too scared to make something good, with morals and a GOOD storyline.

To me that sentence doesn't make sense.

Game designers are currently unable or unwilling to make a high quality game that will have really good writing, and complex, realistic morals.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

A wee bit off topic but anyway ...

I'm going to say that it's near impossible to make a really meaningful war game out of a FPS. Don't get me wrong I love FPS and think you can do a lot out of them but I just don't think you can make it work such subject matter.

First of all the got the massive skill gaps of FPS players which can really affect the mechanics and break immersion. A good example of this would be Telltale's Walking Dead and (early) Far Cry 3. In both of these games you're meant to be an average person with no skills in weaponry, however when a decent shooter player performs the parts that involve shooting the characters suddenly become walking torrents of death. The only way to compensate for this is to weaken shooter gameplay by artificially inflating shooting difficulty and spawning less enemies. Which, in my opinion, defeats the purpose of making it a FPS in the first place.

I would personally say that FPS tend to heavily desensitise the player to violence in the gameworld. Shooting is satisfying and largely rewarding. It would be extremely hard to come up with a mechanic that's not annoying and punishing to make sure that shooter player doesn't feel that way.

It seems like something that would be covered better by some sort of "survival-adventure" based around a small tightly knit group of soldiers who slowly develop stronger relationships. It's main "gimmick" could be the squad mates or the player character(s) dying in completely inane and unsatisfying ways.

Now I know you're all going to bring up Spec Ops: The Line as an example of a shooter handling war themes well. I won't disagree with that. However Spec Ops was also a deconstruction of the modern shooter as well. To try and make a game purely about warfare and not about the difference between games' interpretation of warfare and real terrible warfare is something I just can't see being done by a FPS.

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

I think it's a failure of history that all Germans during WWII are all considered amoral monsters. There's a big difference between the basic Wehrmacht and the SS Death Heads. Yes there were atrocities committed by both sides but the fact that the brunt of the german army (and all armies at the time) were barely trained conscripts forced into service is something a lot of people fail to consider.
Note that I'm not justifying any action taken by Nazi forces during WWII rather that there were people serving in the army and not just monsters.

[Xantalos]

WW2 games where there is no Axis campaign

Because y'know, nazis were bad and all. But what if I want to play the bad guy? what if I want to experience WW Deux in the boots of a sauerkraut-munching, beer-swilling, swastika-hailing deutchesoldat? The possibilities of creating deep, intricate stories about morality, human nature and the dangers of extremism practically write themselves. It would really  advance games as an art and as a medium for storytelling.

but no, the risks are too high and nobody has the balls to wade this deep into the dark side of the pool.

Game designers are too scared to make something good, with morals and a GOOD storyline.

To me that sentence doesn't make sense.

Game designers are currently unable or unwilling to make a high quality game that will have really good writing, and complex, realistic morals.

Unable, I can get. Unwilling, I don't.

[Krevsin]

SpecOps: the line sacrificed combat in order to get the story across (the combat in the game is functional, but nothing more.).

Inorder for the FPS to achieve good story and morals, it would have to do just that, making the combat not rewarding. to be avoided, even. But taht would transform the FPS into just a game set in the FP perspective, the fame rather focusing on the story and morals.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Game designers are currently unable or unwilling to make a high quality game that will have really good writing, and complex, realistic morals.

Unable, I can get. Unwilling, I don't.

Publisher pressure. Reviewer pressure. Stakeholder pressure. Market fear. Fan pressure.
Writing a good, complex storyline is a major risk in modern game market as you will experience criticism from almost every point. Proper writing is a risk; poor writing is not - see Gears of War (A good example, as they snuck in as much good writing as possible. I learned that from their interviews. Nevertheless, most people never realize that)

A decent example is Witcher. Witcher series has pretty good and coherent writing and good morality. It is also not even close to Dragon Age, which is cliched on a lot of levels.

[Mrnocamera]

First of all the got the massive skill gaps of FPS players which can really affect the mechanics and break immersion. A good example of this would be Telltale's Walking Dead and (early) Far Cry 3. In both of these games you're meant to be an average person with no skills in weaponry, however when a decent shooter player performs the parts that involve shooting the characters suddenly become walking torrents of death. The only way to compensate for this is to weaken shooter gameplay by artificially inflating shooting difficulty and spawning less enemies.

Actually, could be that the characters hands shake severely when they kill something the first, say...  twenty times?   And the recoil is increased until the characters either get training from someone, or get used to the recoil and mechanics of the gun, and the mechanics normally change each gun.

So, there is a slightly different way to compensate for it.

[Knight of Fools]

I'd be interested in playing a game where you play as a Nazi, but it would have to be done carefully. I've actually met a guy who was part of Hitler's Youth (And then became a spy in Central America, but that's a different story), and he was a pretty cool guy, even though back then he was completely loyal to Hitler.

There's a lot of depth and moral ambiguity that would really open up the WWII genre, but between the complexity of pulling that off and pressure to be pro-American, I doubt we'll see any games that play with the idea for a while now.