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[Evil Knievel]

Video: Roger Dingledine and Jacob Appelbaum (Guys who make tor (https://www.torproject.org/)) : Q & A Marathon

This is the video from the "talk" given by Roger Dingledine and Jacob Appelbaum at TUM on July 24th.

A lot of convincing arguments especially at the beginning. To watch the whole thing, a lot of time is required though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://gnunet.org/tor2013tum-video

[Scoops Novel]

Video: Roger Dingledine and Jacob Appelbaum (Guys who make tor (https://www.torproject.org/)) : Q & A Marathon

This is the video from the "talk" given by Roger Dingledine and Jacob Appelbaum at TUM on July 24th.

A lot of convincing arguments especially at the beginning. To watch the whole thing, a lot of time is required though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://gnunet.org/tor2013tum-video

Thank you, I'll probably be sharing this. I've heard of TOR, but what benefits does it give me? I presume that if anyone with access to the tools this thread is focused on, and likely more besides, is interested in learning my details that it's a speed bump.

Edit: Having gone a little further into the video, i realize that being relatively anonymous before reason exists to examine you in more depth has it's advantages, though i (pointlessly) hold by my presumption.

[Scoops Novel]

Video: Roger Dingledine and Jacob Appelbaum (Guys who make tor (https://www.torproject.org/)) : Q & A Marathon

This is the video from the "talk" given by Roger Dingledine and Jacob Appelbaum at TUM on July 24th.

A lot of convincing arguments especially at the beginning. To watch the whole thing, a lot of time is required though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://gnunet.org/tor2013tum-video

By the way, how did you hear about this?

[palsch]

The FISC NSA metadata collection order has been declassified. Also the 2009 and 2011 reports to the House and Senate intelligence committees about all collection procedures under FISA and the PATRIOT act. All three are heavily redacted, mostly (as far as I can tell) with regard to companies being targetted and other, still classified orders, but still looks like a decent chunk of clarification.

It's worth noting that the order itself is 17 pages, with only a tiny amount actually justifying the obtaining of material. Page 4 onwards is all about minimisation procedures imposed on the NSA with regards to such information.

[GlyphGryph]

Meanwhile, we've got the newest release by Greenwald indicating that the Government's most recent round of denials has, as expected, been total lies.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

Yes, they CAN read you're e-mail without a warrant or a FISA request. Yes, they are storing content, not just metadata.

I lack even the ability to be outraged anymore.

[SalmonGod]

Outrage has been nothing but a negligible background noise to me for at least 10 years.  It's not so much an emotion as a fuel reserve I tap into for energy to keep working on getting everyone else to recognize the stuff that's going on and why it's important.  My outrage is a very deep fuel reserve.  Most people I know who believe the same things I do basically give up on everything within a couple years, and encourage me to do the same.  I can't do it.  If I can't maintain a vision of a different future, then I can't cope with the present.

[LordSlowpoke]

did anyone else stop giving a damn and just pictured that billy mays didn't die but was moved into the nsa as a professional "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!" announcer

a leak uncovers something? deploy billy mays

orders declassified? billy mays

snowden in russia? billy ma- fuck if i know what they deploy on this one

[Baffler]

Outrage has been nothing but a negligible background noise to me for at least 10 years.  It's not so much an emotion as a fuel reserve I tap into for energy to keep working on getting everyone else to recognize the stuff that's going on and why it's important.  My outrage is a very deep fuel reserve.  Most people I know who believe the same things I do basically give up on everything within a couple years, and encourage me to do the same.  I can't do it.  If I can't maintain a vision of a different future, then I can't cope with the present.

It's very tempting to just stop caring, but that will only mean I don't have a say in how my government runs. Not to sound bitter, but on the same vein, what can a normal person do?  I could write my congressman but they're among those supporting the whole thing, or at least they're both saying Snowden should be prosecuted: and we've got a Democrat and a Republican. I suppose what I'm trying to say is, yes, it's an issue, but unless something HUGE happens, it's not going anywhere.

[SalmonGod]

Outrage has been nothing but a negligible background noise to me for at least 10 years.  It's not so much an emotion as a fuel reserve I tap into for energy to keep working on getting everyone else to recognize the stuff that's going on and why it's important.  My outrage is a very deep fuel reserve.  Most people I know who believe the same things I do basically give up on everything within a couple years, and encourage me to do the same.  I can't do it.  If I can't maintain a vision of a different future, then I can't cope with the present.

It's very tempting to just stop caring, but that will only mean I don't have a say in how my government runs. Not to sound bitter, but on the same vein, what can a normal person do?  I could write my congressman but they're among those supporting the whole thing, or at least they're both saying Snowden should be prosecuted: and we've got a Democrat and a Republican. I suppose what I'm trying to say is, yes, it's an issue, but unless something HUGE happens, it's not going anywhere.

The huge thing that needs to happen is mass cultural awareness, not only that these things are happening but that they are problems that actually have an impact on their lives.  The best thing to do and that anyone can do is keep talking about it.

[Mrhappyface]

What bugs me is the fact that much of the public thinks that the NSA conducts mass surveillance. It's not practical or particularly fruitful to keep track over 300 million US citizens when in actuality, they trace threads from certain countries (mainly in the middle east) to back home. That's like expecting police to patrol every street corner in riot gear and carrying assault rifles.

[Loud Whispers]

What bugs me is the fact that much of the public thinks that the NSA conducts mass surveillance.

Watch everyone, notice only a few. It's already perfected to an art. Police patrols require manpower, information requires only machines, sensors and buttons. A mechanical nervous system if you will.

[GlyphGryph]

What bugs me is the fact that much of the public thinks that the NSA conducts mass surveillance. It's not practical or particularly fruitful to keep track over 300 million US citizens when in actuality, they trace threads from certain countries (mainly in the middle east) to back home. That's like expecting police to patrol every street corner in riot gear and carrying assault rifles.

Except, durrr, all the evidence says they are conducting mass surveilance? They ARE conducting mass surveillance. It is literally what they are doing. What is so hard to understand here?

[SalmonGod]

What bugs me is the fact that much of the public thinks that the NSA conducts mass surveillance. It's not practical or particularly fruitful to keep track over 300 million US citizens when in actuality, they trace threads from certain countries (mainly in the middle east) to back home. That's like expecting police to patrol every street corner in riot gear and carrying assault rifles.

Well, there is the interesting case that the US isn't actually being able to process all of this data anyway. I mean, tracking 360 million people and determining whether they are a threat or not.

I heavily dispute this.  I have here a rather large report about how surveillance was used against the Occupy movement.  It mainly pertains to Arizona, as this is where the researcher who dug up all this information is located, but does describe to a decent extent how relevant this likely is to the rest of the country as well.  I wanted to finish reading through this before I posted it, and was debating whether I'd do so in this or the Occupy thread.  I'm going ahead now, because I think this bit is particularly relevant.

Perhaps the most widely utilized feature of ACTIC is the Terrorism Liaison Officer (TLO) Program. The function of ACTIC TLOs is to disseminate ACTIC intelligence and “critical infrastructure/key resources” “threat and vulnerability assessments” within their respective law enforcement agencies, and to feed intelligence gathered by these agencies back into ACTIC, for the use of other ACTIC-engaged entities (both in the public and private sectors).

There are roughly 800 active TLOs active in Arizona through ACTIC member agencies.

Take a moment to consider this number. The total population of Arizona is roughly 6.5 million people-- nearly 4 million of whom reside in Maricopa County (primarily comprised of Phoenix and its suburbs). Another million reside in Pima County (primarily concentrated in Tucson and outlying municipalities). That leaves a remainder of roughly 1.5 million people, scattered throughout the state’s remaining 13 rural counties. As such, there is one “terrorism liaison officer” for every 8,125 residents of Arizona, most of whom live in, or around, either of the state’s two major cities-- neither of which has ever been the site of any substantial act of  “terrorism.”

Bolded emphasis at the end is mine.  The TLO position as described in the rest of the document that I've read so far describes them as the people who are tasked most directly with information gathering on specific groups.  Now if you consider the kind of data filtering that is possible with today's technology, being responsible for monitoring roughly 8,000 people as a full time job really isn't that much.  Certainly sufficient manpower for identifying persons of interest.  It goes on to describe how one TLO, with the cooperation of local police (especially infiltrators) and federal agencies, was enough to build and maintain a very comprehensive database of personal information on all the Occupy participants around Phoenix.  Plus, communications of major participants were monitored so everything was known about their plans well in advance.

It's pretty safe to assume that if you attended any Occupy event, there is a complete file on you somewhere.  Your personal history has been dug up and prepared to use against you if ever needed, and dirty laundry does matter.  What's the first thing that happens any time a dissenter manages to grab the attentions of the public?  A media campaign is launched to demonize and discredit, mostly based on that dirty laundry.  If the seeds of doubt are successfully planted in the public consciousness regarding the dissenter's character, then it's safe to pursue any action against them without significant public backlash.  We live in a fickle and superficial media culture, and that makes dirty laundry incredibly powerful.

[alexandertnt]

Its not possible for the NSA to personally keep tracking every US citizen, but it is totally possible to intercept phone and email communications and process it through computers.

[alway]

What bugs me is the fact that much of the public thinks that the NSA conducts mass surveillance. It's not practical or particularly fruitful to keep track over 300 million US citizens when in actuality, they trace threads from certain countries (mainly in the middle east) to back home. That's like expecting police to patrol every street corner in riot gear and carrying assault rifles.

Bullshit.

As a software developer, I will let you know that it is extremely easy. Like, not even "we need a team for this" easy, but as in "I could personally write software capable of doing most of this reasonably well if I set my mind to it, despite that part of software not being my focus." Increasing the numbers actually makes it even easier, assuming you have a server farm to do the computations on. The boundaries to this work are not grounded in technology, but rather in policy. Quite frankly, I would consider them highly incompetent if they didn't have such capabilities, given the policy directs them towards doing so.

If you want an example of a similar system, look at IBM's Watson. In terms of code, it's actually incredibly similar. Learning algorithms + large databases + associative learning is incredibly powerful and can be applied to all sorts of data. For example, Watson's latest application is healthcare diagnosis; and is currently more accurate than doctors.

And the big problem is, everyone has something to hide. You, me, everyone. You've either broken some obscure law or at the very least have been associated with something which could either ruin your life or convince a jury to convict you for something. With access to those databases in an easier searchable format; as you would get with such AI techniques as they are using; you could find such tidbits as 'this person looked up nerve gas, dirty bombs, videos of explosions, nuclear weapons, and certain chemical weapons. They also talked to persons x, y, and z, who [at some point in the past] looked up [list of similar topics].' Never mind the fact that most people occasionally look up such things when wiki-walking or reading about history; if you presented cherrypicked evidence like that, you could convince a jury that just about anyone was a raving loony out to kill everyone.[/list]