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[Foamybeard]

Alright. Two days ago I got involved a pretty large debate over piracy, that stemmed from an article about piracy. (Click the spoiler for the link to the article)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/

Now, while I admit that the popular opinion on Piracy is that it is "wrong", I'm one of those that 1) Question the legitimacy of authority if it is heavily influenced by outside sources, such as things like Record Labels, or Movie Corporations, and 2) Refuses to accept popular opinion as truth.

Anyway, I'd like to see what Bay12's opinion on Piracy is, and maybe If we're lucky, we might get to see a debate unfold.

[Foamybeard]

Aw...

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I feel like there should be a study on how many people even bother looking for a search function before posting topics.

[Foamybeard]

I feel like there should be a study on how many people even bother looking for a search function before posting topics.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was a rule that said I should use one, and most forums that have them have really complex, inane ones that aren't worth using.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I feel like there should be a study on how many people even bother looking for a search function before posting topics.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was a rule that said I should use one, and most forums that have them have really complex, inane ones that aren't worth using.

That's a very well put together thought.

[Foamybeard]

I feel like there should be a study on how many people even bother looking for a search function before posting topics.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was a rule that said I should use one, and most forums that have them have really complex, inane ones that aren't worth using.

That's a very well put together thought.

I'm not sure if you are making fun of me... Oh well.

[itisnotlogical]

Considering that the earlier thread was two months ago and this thread was only abandoned one month ago, I think I'll chip in my two cents here.

Games that haven't had an international release (i.e. Mother 3/Earthbound 2), aren't available on an easily-accessible platform (C64 games, floppy disk games that haven't been ported) or are no longer available from the original manufacturer (can't think of any examples right now but I'm sure they exist) are free game, so to speak.

Suppose I was debating between emulating Battletoads or finding a used copy. To my knowledge, it is not available on any incarnation of the Virtual Console or XBLA (and if it were, I would buy one of those). If I were to buy a used copy, nobody from Rare would receive any money from my purchase. OTOH, if I were to emulate the game, nobody at Rare would be losing money since there is currently no way to buy the game from them. Either way, it's a net loss of 0 for Rare.

[kaijyuu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht90i9Ydlow

[ed boy]

Considering that the earlier thread was two months ago and this thread was only abandoned one month ago, I think I'll chip in my two cents here.

Games that haven't had an international release (i.e. Mother 3/Earthbound 2), aren't available on an easily-accessible platform (C64 games, floppy disk games that haven't been ported) or are no longer available from the original manufacturer (can't think of any examples right now but I'm sure they exist) are free game, so to speak.

Suppose I was debating between emulating Battletoads or finding a used copy. To my knowledge, it is not available on any incarnation of the Virtual Console or XBLA (and if it were, I would buy one of those). If I were to buy a used copy, nobody from Rare would receive any money from my purchase. OTOH, if I were to emulate the game, nobody at Rare would be losing money since there is currently no way to buy the game from them. Either way, it's a net loss of 0 for Rare.

That subset of piracy is known as abandonware. It's sufficiently different from conventional piracy that it would probably need a seperate discussion (and I'm not sure there would be a much of a discussion about abandonware, as the only reason that I've ever heard why one wouldn't support abandonware is a slippery slope argument).

There is another sort-of-piracy-but-not-really situation that I have encountered: Suppose a company makes a game, and it is very popular. A while later, an individual comes along and spends a lot of time making a very large, very extensive mod for that game. Given the amount of effort the modder puts into making their mod, they decide to try and charge people for using it. What is bay12's opinion on this?

[Criptfeind]

I don't see why the moders work is less valid then work if he was using a actual game engine. I feel it should definitely be judged worth it or not on it's merits as a game vs it's price. At least from the consumers point of view.

[Bdthemag]

The industry outrage over piracy is the same as all of the industry outrage on VCR's, DVD's, tape recorders, etc. Even if piracy hurts developers (When they say developers, they really mean publishers) it does so in a minimal way. More people pirate because they stopped regularly making demos for public consumption, because they realized if they released a demo for a mediocre to bad game people wouldn't buy it. So instead they don't release demos, and just hype a game up so even if people do realize it's bad, they still get their cash.

Regarding the whole modding questions, even if a fan makes an extensive mod for the game it's ridiculous to try to sell it. Firstly, there may be issues regarding something being sold that uses a retail and copyrighted game as its base. Secondly, I think it's against the whole spirit of the modding community as a whole. The modding community has always been groups of talented people providing quality works to the public, which encourages more people to take interest who might in turn make their own work, so you have a community that's constantly producing high quality content for free. A lot of people who make these quality mods end up getting hired at game companies anyways, so it's beneficial for them even if they don't charge. If people suddenly start deciding to charge for mods, and it becomes a popular standard, then the quality of said mods would drop because the main interest of the community then would be to make money, as opposed to making a quality product.

[Sigulbard]

I usually don't have a problem with pirating, probably because I'm a data-stealing taffer myself sometimes.

90% of the people I know (as friends) have used piratebay at some point in their lives. The other 10% play on consoles.

EDIT: Took out all the info of what I have torrented
EDIT2: Oh sorry, didn't realize this discussion was dead.

[LordSlowpoke]

I usually don't have a problem with pirating, probably because I'm a data-stealing taffer myself sometimes.

90% of the people I know (as friends) have used piratebay at some point in their lives. The other 10% play on consoles.

EDIT: Took out all the info of what I have torrented
EDIT2: Oh sorry, didn't realize this discussion was dead.

This discussion is not dead. It is currently enjoying the status of necromancy. I'll PTW it in case it lives.

[Sigulbard]

This discussion is not dead. It is currently enjoying the status of necromancy. I'll PTW it in case it lives.

It's dead by my standards, no matter how necromanicalized it may be.

[alexandertnt]

If people suddenly start deciding to charge for mods, and it becomes a popular standard, then the quality of said mods would drop because the main interest of the community then would be to make money, as opposed to making a quality product.

Given those charging money would be in competition with those who are not, they could only make money by making a higher-quality product than the freely available ones...

i.e. I dont believe the whole "people who charge money for something don't care about the quality/art etc". Infact, if they made some money they might even be able to work on it full time and produce a much more detailed and high-quality product. I do not see how making money and making quality software are mutually exclusive, is it not possible to do both?