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[AlwayzL3git]

Put out a new release that fixes game-breaking (annoying) bugs. Like the farmers screaming at you (I have 3 pages filled with it...) that you have no seeds even though you do, just some idiot dwarf took the bag to the seed. It should be easy for the almighty Toady to fix. Just make the dwarf grab the seed and put it in the bag in stead of bringing the whole bag over there.

[Witty]

Toady does not enjoy fixing bugs. So bugs do not get fixed very often. It's just kinda the nature of things.

[weenog]

If not for bugs, what would the toad eat?

[AlwayzL3git]

The satisfaction of removing harmful bugs from the ecosystem.
That, my good sir, is what he would feast upon. If he stood very still anyways and saved as much energy as possible.

[King Mir]

If not for bugs, what would the toad eat?

Smaller bugs.

There are always some.

[Manveru Taurënér]

We'll get a longer period of bugfixing as soon as the new release is out, that's how it's been done the last few releases at least ^^

[Matoro]

Well there has always been fixes for the greatest bugs in normal releases. Also, I don't think there really is any "game breaking" bug right now. I don't care much about job cancellation spam, since it doesen't really affect to anything.

[Witty]

Well there has always been fixes for the greatest bugs in normal releases. Also, I don't think there really is any "game breaking" bug right now. I don't care much about job cancellation spam, since it doesn't really affect to anything.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. This is just my opinion obviously, but there are plenty of bugs that I would consider major enough to warrant immediate fixing. Whips, the hospital, ownership of rotting clothes, and that recently discovered size bug just to name a few. They may not be game breaking in the sense of causing a crash, but they are definitely encountered enough to interfere with gameplay on a grand scale.

[Gargomaxthalus]

Well there has always been fixes for the greatest bugs in normal releases. Also, I don't think there really is any "game breaking" bug right now. I don't care much about job cancellation spam, since it doesn't really affect to anything.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. This is just my opinion obviously, but there are plenty of bugs that I would consider major enough to warrant immediate fixing. Whips, the hospital, ownership of rotting clothes, and that recently discovered size bug just to name a few. They may not be game breaking in the sense of causing a crash, but they are definitely encountered enough to interfere with gameplay on a grand scale.

After reading through the thread about the size bug, I immediately posted a rather caustic rant and proceeded to shut off children through Lazy Newb Pack and boycotted livestock at all of my fortresses. That bug has been causing trouble for years and as a newcomer who has enough to worry about without my population potentially eventually consisting of only "!!CAT SIZED!!" Dwarves, I refuse to put up with it as my previously mentioned rant makes perfectly clear. This should have been discovered back when people first noticed that trained animals suck and battle tends to eventually get harder after more than 12 years pass. Since many people have given Toady financial support, I'd say that we're well within our rights to demand that such massive and in some cases easy to fix bugs, are stomped out NOW rather than in 4 or 5 more months or Armok forbid, 4 or 5 more years. 

Dammit, you'd think that I actually enjoy posting stuff like this. Oh well maybe Toady will start to realize that a broken game, though it can be fun, limits ones audience and is just a terrible practice. I mean normally when an Alpha Tester tells a developer about a bug, it gets addressed so that the whole process can go more smoothly. Hell this project will already take the rest of his life as is. Why not do a bug sweep every month or so? There is also nothing wrong with releasing incomplete features since he does that already anyway.


Heh another paragraph of rant......... I'll leave it at that and go back to working on surmounting my first aquifer.

[Witty]

While I will agree with you that bug fixing should handled in a more timely fashion, I don't think it's our right to tell Toady how he should be making his game. Donations are just that, donations. If DF for whatever reason becomes financially unreliable and Toady can't support himself, the project will probably just be put on the back-burner so he can go back to teaching or something. Donators allow him to work on the game 24/7.

[Deepblade]

Gargomaxthalus, you can't look at this as "I pay money, so I am entitled to service.". That is simply NOT the situation we are in with Toady.
He has made no promises of service in exchange for money, or even demands money. He simply designs(with his brother), codes, and debugs a game loved and enjoyed by thousands of people, and those people enjoy the game so much that they are willing to give him money as a way of saying, "Thanks for the fun, Toady. I appreciate the game you've made and would like to show it with a gift of currency.". Hell, you enjoy the game so much you're still playing despite being furious about the bugs. You simple stopped using the features that were bugged. He receives enough gifts of money that he is capable of working on Dwarf Fortress full time.

Could he do things more efficiently and smooth out bugs immediately? You bet your ass he could. He could also one day say, "This isn't fun anymore. I'm gonna stop working on Dwarf Fortress and NOT open the code up to the thousands of people that love it.". This is his game, he owns it, and he can do with it as he pleases. We're lucky he's a cool guy and not some money mongering bastard.

The size growing bug was just discovered, and even then it's only a problem for war animal/butchering programs and Dwarves using blunt weapons. Animal programs for wool and milk still function perfectly, if not better cause the animals are potentially less dangerous and yield the same amount of wool and milk. The fact that it was just now discovered shows the gran and complex nature of the game, which isn't even halfway complete yet.

So, I have 2 possible solutions for you. Stop playing Dwarf Fortress until the game is complete. all the bugs will have been worked out and you'll have your perfect game. Or, you can relax, crack open a beer, kill some goblins, pump some magma, and have !!FUN!!, bugs and all.

[AlwayzL3git]

Great to see my thread has grown. Oh, they grow up so fast!
Anyways, I understand what you mean about fixing bugs after the new release.
We have had this version for... A year now? You would have though he could have fixed a large majority of bugs in about a month... Which would provide a much more enjoyable version... Which would make people less anxious for a new release... Which in turn would make the world go 'round...
Which would make me say another effect.
Which would make me start another sentence with "Which."
Which would annoy you.
Which would make you hit me.
Which would make me scream in pain.
Which would make me tackle you.
Which would make a court case.
Which would grow into a tantrum spiral.
Which would make us all kill each other.
Which would be bad.
So how about fixin' those bugs!
EDIT: Oh my, I actually checked just to make sure. EXACTLY one year ago FROM TODAY, marked the 1 year period since the last version. How cool is that!?

[weenog]

Wow, check out the sense of entitlement on that guy.


How, pray tell, is Toady supposed to fix a bug before it's even discovered?  And how are players to react when he fixes them in a rushed, haphazard way that breaks more than it fixes?

[AlwayzL3git]

Wow, check out the sense of entitlement on that guy.


How, pray tell, is Toady supposed to fix a bug before it's even discovered?  And how are players to react when he fixes them in a rushed, haphazard way that breaks more than it fixes?

The bug that I described has been around since...
The First Age of Legends... x3
No, but seriously, this is a really annoying bug and could have been fixed a long time ago, I believe. In my opinion, I would rather play a game with few features and no bugs than a broken game that has plenty of features. Then again, that is just my opinion.

[10ebbor10]

In essence, the above "bug" isn't even a bug, it's unintended and unexpected behavior. Due to that, a natural workaround is easy, but fixing it would be rather hard.