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[Cerol Lenslens]

We are trying to avoid getting Michael killed. It's true that we have no idea how the reset process works, but that means it's something we really don't want to mess with.

Anyways, Michael, take your conscription like a man and do what you signed up to do. That physical training should really help. Look for ways to become an Agent, though, since patrolling a road probably won't help your quest for godhood.

Also, take a nap. You still have open wounds. You haven't slept. Sleeping in Morrowind was the only way to heal for those without spells, potions or similar magical aid. Until you either get that magic or get some sleep, your HP are going to stay lowered. And I don't think you have to worry about oversleeping: the PC slept for game hours, and I expect your sleep will be similarly accelerated since you appear to be following Morrowind's other game rules.

Edit: If we really think we need to get out of the Legion immediately, our best bet may be to fake our own death. That avoids Michael getting actually killed, and if we ditch the Colovian fur helm afterwards, we may not be recognized at all.

[GlyphGryph]

We are trying to avoid getting Michael killed. It's true that we have no idea how the reset process works, but that means it's something we really don't want to mess with.

I would say that avoid fucking things up long term and irrecoverably would probably be a MUCH better primary goal. We don't want to randomly experiment with dying, no, but if we get another case of dejavu that will mean our bad decisions are permanently set in stone, which will leave us much worse off. Every second we delay brings that possibility a little bit closer.

LordBucket - can we just advocate for a revert/reload/switch to alternate post-load timeline instead?

[WillowLuman]

Take a nap, indeed. Not too long though.

Let's look at our options for advancement, shall we? The Legion will train us up to the competence of a basic guard. The Fighter's guild could do the same, but not for free. Training costs 10's to 100's per-skill, per point. Training up to an appreciable strength from them would cost thousands of gold. And if we're going to invest thousands for training, we're spending it on magic. Training from a Guild would take as long, if not longer, due to financial requirements, at our current strength. After our basic training, we'll be able to do more things for more profit.

[Knirisk]

We are trying to avoid getting Michael killed. It's true that we have no idea how the reset process works, but that means it's something we really don't want to mess with.

I would say that avoid fucking things up long term and irrecoverably would probably be a MUCH better primary goal. We don't want to randomly experiment with dying, no, but if we get another case of dejavu that will mean our bad decisions are permanently set in stone, which will leave us much worse off. Every second we delay brings that possibility a little bit closer.

LordBucket - can we just advocate for a revert/reload/switch to alternate post-load timeline instead?

Agreed. Back when the legion was first suggested, I made a long post (which was unfortunately eaten by a 504 (I think)). Basically, I figured that we REALLY can't waste time on a Legion position. If the game is being played by a real person, we don't know what happens when they stop playing. For all we know, Michael is suspended in time when the game is not being played, but without knowing that he's suspended in time. If the player stops playing Morrowind, Michael could be suspended indefinitely. I'm not sure on the actual metaphysical mechanics of the whole thing, but it's an important question, because I'd assume Michael, as of right now, wants to get back to his actual life.

If I recall correctly, when Michael checked his phone, about an entire day had passed in-game to 45 minutes to an hour. Now, I have no idea how much time most of you spent playing Morrowind, considering I never actually completed the game. I reset constantly, trying new characters. If this time frame is true, then Michael almost certainly does not have time for the legion. I doubt any player will play Morrowind past 100 or so hours without mods. If months in Morrowind are 30 days, then that means that we have less than a year. Although, the player will probably occasionally sleep and wait, so that may afford Michael a bit more time. Still, we most certainly do not have enough time for the legion, especially with Michael's existence on the line.

Unfortunately, I don't really have any better ideas for what Michael SHOULD do. The problem is that he has very little to no skills whatsoever, so that limits his potential greatly. The most positive thing I've heard so far, really, is that he knows math, which is somehow tied into magic. There is his (and our) meta-knowledge of the Morrowind universe, which is our other strength. Depending on what our longterm goal is, getting in-game skills would benefit his options greatly, but I'm rather dry as to what meta-knowledge would be useful for getting those skills. Especially since events are definitely not occurring like they would in a normal game. While the legion would certainly get Michael those skills, it wouldn't really do so in an immediate time-frame, since a PC could beat Dagoth Ur, as others have mentioned, within 90 days.

GlyphGryph is right, I think. Moreover, I highly doubt LordBucket's willing to end this session with Michael so early and in such an anti-climactic fashion, so we may just get one more chance at this. That said, if, say, we had infinite time to hang around the Morrowind continent, a guard post on the Legion might not be a bad thing. Michael might make friends, become acquainted with Morrowind life, and he'll get to view a pretty awesome event in the history of the continent. If we hadn't been introduced to the possible existence of Player Characters, I would've certainly had him join the Legion. Hell, maybe he might've found a girl he likes. Er, maybe, hah!

But there's no guarantee of infinite time and there's no guarantee of Michael's safety and while those are blatantly absent, we gotta sweep all the moss off this stone and get it rolling. If, for example, he knew basic magic, he could join the Mages' Guild and make some serious progression there.

So, I'm putting my vote in with GlyphGryph, if only just this once, heh.

[WillowLuman]

If Micheal is on somebody's hard-drive, and we only have until they get bored of playing Morrowind to exist, then we were screwed from the start and nothing we could do would matter. Therefore, DO NOT base decisions on the risk of the world suddenly ceasing to exist, but rather on less metaphysical problems, like missing a chance at godhood due to the heart being destroyed.

No one here is suggesting that we actually make the long term commitment to guard duty. And I don't think anyone ever was, at least not seriously. Here is what we are going to do. We are going to become slightly tougher than the average citizen, so we can actually do shit, and then somehow we are going to regain our freedom. We ARE NOT going to die and try to savescum the best possible outcome, because no matter how badly our current plan screws up, trying to savescum could (would) backfire in ways worse than we can imagine. What's the worst thing that could happen on our current path? We either get a bad rep from the Empire or we wind up stuck in a boring comission. What's the worst thing that could happen if we get killed on a suicide mission in hopes of resetting? We wind up dead for all eternity, perhaps soultrapped, or something even worse.

Once again, I suggest telling someone involved in hush-hush stuff some of our Metagaming knowledge, in a field relevant to their experience. It's likely to work because, looking at their lore behavior, the Blades don't kill assets. This isn't about secret agent training, this is about getting our autonomy. What do the Blades do with interesting people? They unleash them somewhere as autonomous adventurers so they can observe them. Happened to the PC in Morrowind, happened to the PC in Daggerfall (though admitedly the Daggerfall PC was more explicitly working with the Emperor.) In fact, if we can get our first assignment at Moonmoth, we might just cut a deal with Caius, information in exchange for freedom.

And what has worked for us so far? What has gotten us anywhere? Revealing ourselves to one of the major players in this place, namely Vivec. I'm not saying the blades would believe our story, but you can bet they'd be interested. Caius doesn't believe the Nerevarine prophecy, but the Blades want to see it completed because it furthers their interests.

[GlyphGryph]

If Micheal is on somebody's hard-drive, and we only have until they get bored of playing Morrowind to exist, then we were screwed from the start and nothing we could do would matter. Therefore, DO NOT base decisions on the risk of the world suddenly ceasing to exist, but rather on less metaphysical problems, like missing a chance at godhood due to the heart being destroyed.

Or, you know, everyone on the continent being killed by Dagoth Ur. The options are either the heart is destroyed or everyone dies, and we don't have long to act either way.

The worst thing that happens in our current path is that we waste 30 days for what we could accomplish in a week. Which is exactly what you are suggesting we do.

[Man of Paper]

But his suggestion offers approximately zero risk of douching it up in a permanent way, as opposed to your idea. Don't bank on a GM not killing someone or something off on a whim just because you think they won't. I know as GM when I tire of people doing jack and/or shit that I keep things very, very interesting in the most terrible ways. LB is likely very willing to do terrible things to Mike for the sake of keeping things interesting and us on our toes if we continue to bog ourselves down with conflicting ideas and plans to abuse his own system.

A month of proper training for free? Or a chance at an eternity trapped as a dead guy in a video game? I dunno, seems like a hard choice.

I'm getting kind of frustrated with this, because we're getting to the point where we've still done nothing and now it's apparently a good idea to go fumbling around in the dark with things we can't grasp. And the dark is filled with lions.

And the branching timelines? You still have no control over when the timelines split, which ones we start at, etc. etc. Hell, I've been going on about how the PC may have saved and will load from a later point, a concept that I somehow can't get across even though every gamer should be intimately familiar with the idea of saving. What's stopping the PC from loading from an earlier point? We could restart literally at any point that we've been in MorrowReal. We have exactly zero ability to predict when we'll restart from.

Please, for all that is noodly, more people need to say no to the idea of intentional death. Trying to play god doesn't work out when you aren't ready for it. Just look at Jurassic Park.

[GlyphGryph]

But his suggestion offers approximately zero risk of douching it up in a permanent way, as opposed to your idea

This is the EXACT opposite of true! That's been my whole bloody point. If you see zero risk of his plan causing permanent harm, then you simply aren't paying attention. You could argue his plan is better and perhaps offer a reasonable and convincing argument, but since this statement indicates you clearly don't understand it, what it means, or any of the factors involved, I suspect that task would have to be left to someone else.

[Man of Paper]

Please, explain to me exactly what you want to do, what you think will happen, and why. Because all I've gotten from what you want to to so far is die and respawn at the last time we felt the PC load.

[GlyphGryph]

Get killed, reset. After that happens -
Sell crap, purchase money to hire thieves guild to retrieve skull, turn down their offer and say while we don't wish to become a thief, we have decided it would be easier for all involved to simply make use of their services. Offer something like 270 septims for our "initial request" here, which I'm pretty sure we can manage by pawning stuff we've got. Ask how long it will take, and say we might have more business for them in the future if they pull this off without any problems.
Repeat the conversation with the orc necromancer. Do not admit to weakness this time. Say it will not be a problem.
Spend some time mapping out valuable an relatively poorly guarded loot that we the audience can provide info on. Try to cut a deal with the thieves guild for the unguarded stuff, where you get a cut in exchange for valuable info on targets, and with the fighters guild for the valuable stuff, where you get a cut in exchange for valuable info on targets.
Learn magic from the orc.
Use money from provided information to purchase a full alchemy set and a bunch of piss from everyone in town, as well as renting a house in Balmora. Proceed to conduct alchemy while everybody is off making money for us (even if it's more for themselves), and practicing our magic, building up our skills.

What we need to start doing is simultaneously slowing down the player and helping ourselves. I think this is 100% the best way to do that.

It also prepares us for dealing with Dagoth Ur ourselves if it turns out we need to take on that role.

[Man of Paper]

No, explain to me how you think the reset works. That's the part I can't seem to wrap my head around.

[CognitiveDissonance]

No, explain to me how you think the reset works. That's the part I can't seem to wrap my head around.

Just to butt in, I understand the hope is that if we die, we are pushed back to the last time we experienced deja vu. The concern is that the GM explicitly cautioned against death.

[GlyphGryph]

I believe that's because each dejavu presumably means a game load, and a game load from on save can only be guaranteed to happen once. Experimenting with death is, as a general rule, a terrible idea. I think this is an exception - we've wasted time and backed ourselves into a corner where we have to waste significantly more of the time available to us.

And I think hanging around dead forever is significantly better than being a corprus zombie.

[DeKaFu]

I'm going to have to put in a vote against GlyphGryph's plan, because as far as I can tell we still have only a very shaky idea of how this saving/loading thing works. We'd be banking on the reloading happening because we died, but we have no way of knowing for sure it wasn't a coincidence last time. Apart from that one event there's been no evidence that the one controlling the saving and loading even knows we exist, let alone will base their actions on what happens to us. For all we know it might've been a very contrived meta coincidence that only happened because LordBucket didn't want to end this so soon, but has no intention of repeating if we try to abuse it.

Therefore it seems like, based on what we know now, it's 50/50 whether it ends up fixing everything or destroying us permanently (because, say, we die, they don't reload, and then they save again an hour later). That is way too risky.

Do not attempt to savescum.

We've gotten ourself into a bad situation. That stuff I said about not burning bridges? Now practically impossible without wasting potentially fatal amounts of time. We need to start finding a way out now, with the minimum of pissing people off. Taking the training and then deserting is not the way to do that, but I don't know what is.

[GlyphGryph]

Even if we don't attempt the reset, I think the rest of my plan is solid. We haven't gotten paid a dime by the legion - we should beg off, say we made a terrible mistake, we'll look like shit but hopefully they won't hate us.