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[gman8181]

I didn't realize it was our job to beat Dagoth Ur... and what exactly are we trying to do before those 90 days are over?  Wouldn't it be a good thing if some PC beat the game in 90 days?  If you're referring to Michael's wish to use the Heart for immortality, I don't think he would really be ready to beat Dagoth in that time anyway.  Besides, there are probably other ways to obtain immortality or at the very least longevity as has been shown by the many Televanni necromancers hanging about.

Edit:  There are also still ways we could put this to our advantage.  Maybe find a way to use the resources of the Empire to beat Dagoth Ur?

Or we could call on Vivic to help us get out of the situation.  Having him send some Ordinators down to our boss and tell them that Vivic needs us would probably get us out of our guard duty.

[Man of Paper]

We'll also probably get murdered along the way. We should at least get something out of our decision instead of, once again, deciding to go on a completely different path before we get anywhere on the one we're on. Not to pick on you or your post, but that's exactly the problem we've been having this whole time.

But we've got a really bad trend going on and we need to nip that shit in the bud. I'm sure Mike and, by extension, OP, are not happy with our course of (in)action.

One way to deal with the issue would be to do is come up with some short, mid, and long term goals, so we at least have an idea of what to strive for. And instead of being disheartened because something won't be absolutely perfect, we should accept that everything is going to have a catch. If anyone hasn't caught on by now, Bucket seems to like throwing spanners in the works (much as any good GM does). It'd make for an interesting story if we didn't get turned off of an idea because it has a few downsides. Right now though I feel as though Mike is more of a hapless tourist than anything serious with the way we've been doing things. No offense Mike, it's not your fault.

And when we're coming up with goals, start with the big ones, then work your way back, figuring out what you'd need to accomplish until you get to the immediate issues needing solving (for example, cash flow seems to be the root of our issues outside of being less decisive than a 15 year old girl doing whatever 15 year old girls do. Drugs?)

So for example:

Long Term Goal: Become a God
To accomplish that we must: Learn crap
To accomplish that we must: Find trainers
To accomplish that we must: Get cash
To accomplish that we must: Actually finish something

A bit more detailed than that, but you get my drift. Keep it from being too specific though. We don't know how Bucket's going to fiddle with the path we decide to walk, and we need to be able to adjust our plan accordingly. Don't think of this as a game of Morrowind; think of this as your first experience with an extremely detailed grand strategy game.

[GlyphGryph]

We'll also probably get murdered along the way.

Yes this is the purpose of the command. Our last bout of deja vu was just slightly before we fucked everything up, and nothing of note was accomplished after that. Sounds good to me!

Getting hints from the GM was the whole purpose of me agreeing to this absurd exercise.

Goals:
Get killed, reset. After that happens -
Sell crap, purchase money to hire thieves guild to retrieve skull, turn down their offer and say while we don't wish to become a thief, we have decided it would be easier for all involved to simply make use of their services. Offer something like 270 septims for our "initial request" here, which I'm pretty sure we can manage by pawning stuff we've got. Ask how long it will take, and say we might have more business for them in the future if they pull this off without any problems.
Repeat the conversation with the orc necromancer. Do not admit to weakness this time. Say it will not be a problem.
Spend some time mapping out valuable an relatively poorly guarded loot that we the audience can provide info on. Try to cut a deal with the thieves guild for the unguarded stuff, where you get a cut in exchange for valuable info on targets, and with the fighters guild for the valuable stuff, where you get a cut in exchange for valuable info on targets.
Learn magic from the orc.
Use money from provided information to purchase a full alchemy set and a bunch of piss from everyone in town, as well as renting a house in Balmora. Proceed to conduct alchemy while everybody is off making money for us (even if it's more for themselves), and practicing our magic, building up our skills.

What we need to start doing is simultaneously slowing down the player and helping ourselves. I think this is 100% the best way to do that.

[Man of Paper]

Yes, that's the last time the PC loaded. We have no idea if they saved afterwards, and no idea when they'll load again. Going out and intentionally dying (something Bucket has also warned us against) doesn't seem like the best choice. For all we know, the PC will power through the rest of the game and we'll just sit there being a corpse. Or worse, they'll save after we die.

[GlyphGryph]

That's the last time they loaded, exactly my point. Meaning the world will be reset from then, if there's any sort of consistency to this nararrative. We know (or heavily suspect) they have loaded at least once, and so we have two branchesof reality available to us. We need to chop this one off now, before it gets any worse.

[Supercharazad]

I thought the main point of joining the legion would be to learn how to actually kill stuff.

[Man of Paper]

You're not quite getting the point: We don't know when the PC saved last. They could have saved right after we joined the Legion. If that's the case, then when/if the world is reloaded by the PC it will continue from that point, not the point prior. The world won't just reset for us, either. It relies on the PC reloading. If the PC doesn't reload after we die, we're stuck in an incorporeal state like the first time we died. If the PC saves after we die, the world is loaded from that point and we are stuck. When you play, do you only ever save once and continue from there?

And the deja-vu is caused by loading, not saving, if that's the confusion.


@super: It still should be. We only need three weeks for the combat training. That's why I suggested we go AWOL and avoid a whole year of service.

[GlyphGryph]

No, the whole "caused by loading, not saving" is the /point/ - it means the world WILL reset to that point, at least once, because the NPC loaded to that point, at least once. We know we're in a branch where no loading occurred after that point. That's all we really need to know, in order to know things will be reset AT LEAST ONCE.

Do you really think we happened to die at the /exact/ moment the PC loaded last time? That seems unlikely. Far more likely is that our viewpoint was just changed to a branch where things happened otherwise.

[Man of Paper]

We know no loading occurred, but did saving? I don't know how else I can try to get this across. Maybe someone else can come in and clear this up for the two of us, because I think we're pretty set in what we think is going on.

[GlyphGryph]

And I'm saying it doesn't matter if saving occurred - it's irrelevant to the question at hand. All that matter is every time the game loads, the future bifurcates. And I'm pretty sure dying just means we end up on the other branch. (Hey, maybe we can end up on the branch where the PC died and stays dead! Whoo, then we can take over his position)

[Supercharazad]

Spending less than two weeks walking around roads isn't that bad. Leaving the legion now will make the guards hate us and probably also make us an outlaw.

[WillowLuman]

Hmm, I'm not so sure who the PC is now, or how many there are. For all we know, the one who will defeat Dagoth Ur hasn't even arrived yet.

No matter how you slice it, I think our government funded training is worth it. 1 quest out of all the others we tried worked, so I'd consider that more of an exception than a rule. Our relatively rapid training to basic competency will enable us to do much more. We can reclaim our autonomy, we just need to be clever.

Here are some ideas:

1-Perform investigations as an officer of the law. If we wound up having to stick to a full commitment, we might still get quests done this way. And the nice thing about the Legion is we could count on backup.
2-Spill the beans. Find some Intelligence person and tell them all their secrets that we know from metagaming knowledge. We might spend a few hours in interrogation, sure, but the Empire seems to like using people who know things rather than killing them. This way we might wind up being able to act as we see fit.
3-Court Marshall. If they didn't just kill us, we'd be out. Or maybe reassigned to somewhere godawful, like Solstheim. I don't think this one is a good idea, nor anything involving treason or sabotage.  There's just too much that can go wrong and too many consequences even if it goes right. But, if the priority was getting out, this would be the last resort.

Oh, and ask if the Legion has a corps of Engineers, or if they leave that sort of thing to hirelings. Just want to know what our options are while we're here.

[Aseaheru]

If the legion is like the romans then its the troops job.

[WillowLuman]

It's time to brainstorm. How can we become autonomous again? There are ways we could do it both inside and outside the Legion. Let's try to organize a list, then vote in order of preference.

So far:

-Become an Operative, like a PC does in the usual main quest. This is not saying become the PC, just special operations or Blades.
-Get involved in Police work, investigating rather than patrolling. Might be limited to mainly towns with strong legion presence, though.
-Get pulled out by a higher power, like Vivec.
-Get thrown out or sabotage and escape in the confusion, at the risk of alienating a good chunk of the people on this island.
-Die and hope to reset to a more convenient point, a large but potentially beneficent gamble.

[Remalle]

Posting to watch.  I don't know why I didn't earlier.