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[dhthwy]

Hi all,
 
I thought training spears in this version did not hurt dwarves? I have two military dwarves that recently (and close together in time) were mangled by them. One died (training spear smashed his skull), and the other got away with both of his hands smashed. It's a 3 year fort and I've been using it since the beginning and haven't had any issues until now. I wonder if it is because I had 20 dwarves set to train in there. It is a single tile with 9 training spears next to a forbidden door. Also odd, I didn't check at the time, but I'm pretty certain these dwarves were properly equipped (steel/iron helm, steel/iron gauntlets, etc I have more than enough of them) so I'm curious why the spears weren't blocked by them. I did check the military screen after recruiting and it said they were wearing their gear.

Here is a screenshot:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2zpjww7.jpg

[Larix]

The military equipment screen only shows that an item has been assigned and claimed, _not_ that it's being worn. To confirm that, you'll have to view the dwarf itself (e.g. by 'v'iew) and check their 'i'nventory. Only if the helmet shows up in this list as equipped on the head is it actually worn and will protect your recruit.

Training spears are very weak weapons (blunt and made of wood), but they will maim and kill poorly armoured units. And the repeating spike/spear performs a proper attack on whoever stands in the way, or it wouldn't train the dwarfs in the first place.

[dhthwy]

Ah okay thanks. That must've been it then. I swore I read from a reputable source that training spears won't hurt dwarves bad enough to kill them, guess I read wrong

I do find that my military doesn't always equip as they should. It was mostly an issue with gauntlets and boots due to quality mismatches. Having to check my military with v all the time is highly tedius though, I wish there was a way to see thru the military screen what is actually worn and not just claimed.

[Id Utalrisen]

I too know the woes of poorly equipped danger room participants. Sent a soldier to train in one, only to find out he was entirely nude except for boots and a helm. Instant dwarf kebab.

[joeclark77]

Also make sure that your spears are not elf-made wooden spears.  Those are NOT for training.

[fricy]

(I'm not 100% sure on this one)
Don't use masterwork training spears, I had fully armored dwarfs die in the danger room. In fact,  about 1/3 of my recruits didn't survive the "experience" when using high quality training spears, all of the casualties had their brain crushed while wearing steel helmets.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's safer to use low quality spears.

[Xinael]

Yes, masterwork weapons get a 2x multiplier to their chance to hit and their damage that significantly increases their ability to maim. Lesser qualities get no bonus though.

[thegoatgod_pan]

It is the cost of a danger room, always worked this way in the past too. Watch out for small infected scratches.

[slothen]

Yes, masterwork weapons get a 2x multiplier to their chance to hit and their damage that significantly increases their ability to maim. Lesser qualities get no bonus though.

This goes against conventional wisdom, which says the hit modifier is increased but force and material factors are unchanged (higher quality = sharper but still limited by the max edge attribute).

I haven't used danger rooms in awhile, but I always used a single training spear without regard for the occasional masterwork ones.  Its possible that my dwarfs just got skilled enough to avoid hits very quickly.  I've never seen an injury on anyone wearing clothes or better.

[Urist McKoga]

Well, this is a DANGER room, so 1 death, one disable in 20 dwarfs is acceptable in my opinion. The dwarf with smashed hand still have teeths and legs right? Then let him kick and bite some ass. And a real danger room give some good points:

-Medics can practice in injuried dwarves in training.
-Your dwarves will have a tough appearance from the scars earned in training.

[Solon64]

Note: I know of one or two mods that "adjust" training weapons to prevent training room abuse. If you aren't using a mod then this post is moot :p

[Xinael]

Yes, masterwork weapons get a 2x multiplier to their chance to hit and their damage that significantly increases their ability to maim. Lesser qualities get no bonus though.

This goes against conventional wisdom, which says the hit modifier is increased but force and material factors are unchanged

You're quite right, sorry. For some reason I was getting confused with how it worked before the materials change. Only the to-hit is increased.

[EvilBob22]

I've seen children get skewered, but I've also seen armored adults fall asleep on training spears without taking any damage.  (I checked, and sleeping soldiers don't gain experience.)  I might occasionally see an injured hand or something, but nothing serious.

[slothen]

-Your dwarves will have a tough appearance from the scars earned in training.

The Bowgoblin looks surprised by the Macedwarfs tough appearance!

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Yeah, I've never seen anything worse than minor bruising on adult dwarves wearing any clothing at all, let alone armor. Pets and naked babies, on the other hand...

Everytime one of my militia has given birth in the Danger Room, it's lead to instant baby smoothies for everyone.