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[hanni79]

Heya fellow Dwarf Leaders,

I thought about a new approach on how to get a better grip on overproduction and limiting the overpowered capabilities of Legendary Dwarves : Workshop Quality.

The Level of the Dwarf using the workshop in question is limited by the quality Level of the corresponding workshop, for example :
 Item Name      Standard                 Max Lvl 5.
+Item Name+     Finely-crafted         Max Lvl 10   
*Item Name*     Superior quality       Max Lvl 15   
≡Item Name≡     Exceptional            Max Lvl 20
☼Item Name☼    Masterful               No Max Lvl

A Legendary Dwarf using a Finely-built Workshop would therefore produce as if he was Level 10.
This would ease out "Masterwork Spamming" and make it a bit harder to achieve true glory, as well as make mass-production a bit better controllable.

The hard part to figure out would be how to apply Quality Levels to Workshops. For flow of gameplay I would suggest leaving the system in place and simply classify those as "Standard".
Simply using "Architecture" to define Quality would make that Skill far too overpowered in my mind, as well as interfere with the plans to make toys and other tools useful.
On the other hand, simply packing more tools/blocks etc. to enhance quality Level feels like too much direct control.

Therefore I would suggest the following :

• Workshops that only need Basic materials should also require appropriate tools for higher Quality
• Workshops that already need to be built with Tools need appropriate Quality Levels for the Tools, too.
• When building, stopping selection of materials (leaving menu) sets the maximum achievable Quality.
• Workshops are then built by appropriately skilled Dwarf - generates actual Quality Level - limited by used materials.

Example:
Standard Forge : Basic material plus Anvil
Finely built forge : Basic material plus +Anvil+ plus +Hammer+
Superior built Forge : Basic Material plus *Anvil* plus *Hammer* plus *Pincers*.
.....and so on.
The order which Tool should be added at what Quality Level is open for discussion of course, but I think this Example should give away the pattern.

This could ultimately lead to my vision, the very dwarvy achievement : The Legendary Magma Forge.
(Okay, Legendary Workshop )
Moody Dwarves could get a low chance (like five or ten %)to check for availability of Artifacts before claiming a Workshop. If at least 6 Artifacts are availlable (Masterwork Workshop need 5 different items in the system I presented above)  that fit the building requirements for his Workshop (appropriate to his moodeable skill), he will furiously tear down the workshop he would have claimed and rebuild it, using the Artifacts present. Doubles should count, meaning an Artifact Magma Forge can be built from 3 Artifact Anvils, 2 Artifact Hammers and 1 Pincer. Workshops would need to be built beforehand though, so they can be torn down.

This proposal wouldn't include Dwarves going insane due to lack of materials though, because Artifacts are incredibly more hard to get than even the rarest basic materials. To balance this, Exceptionally built Workshops should give a bad thought and Masterwork ones a really bad one. Also, Workshops should count as single items when calculating the bad thought ( so it having 1000  ☼Socks☼ doesn't help when your Masterfully built Clothier gets torn down).

I know similar things have been suggested, but I didn't want to necro, so I hope this is unique enough to justify a new thread. Please share your thoughts on this with me

Edit : Sorry, accidentally posted in the wrong Forum. Dear Moderator, could you please move it to Suggestions I'm not sure I understood how I can do that myself and fear to produce more spam when trying myself
Edit 2 : Okay, found out how it works. Sorry for the ruckus.

[Remuthra]

I believe this belongs in Suggestions.

[fractalman]

Can't say it's a terrible idea, but I can't see how it's a particularly good idea either. 

I definitely don't think a strict level cap based on the workshop value fits very well. it just doesn't fit with a history in which some dwarven cripples became famous for transforming worthless schist flooring into masterwork cheese graffiti artwork fit for a king...With nothing but their beards.  Of course, I could be thinking in the wrong direction entirely, so....


Maybe higher-quality workshops could give an inspiring boost to dwarves, and/or an averaging out of the dwarf's level and the workshop's level if the dwarf is over the workshop's level.

Otherwise, I don't think it would be easy to balance letting players make all the workshops out of gold/platinum bars and blocks and defeat the whole point of this, versus requiring exhausting amounts of micromanagment to get half-decent workshops...which could be problematic even without a strict cap on quality.

[Remuthra]

I think maybe a system could be set up where creation materials were affected by workshop quality and skill level. For example, a dwarf assigned to create a stone chair in a low-quality shop might just make a marble chair, but one with a better workspace might make one out of several different materials. That way, higher quality workshops and better skilled dwarves produce more valuable and interesting artifacts.

[assasin]

I think maybe a system could be set up where creation materials were affected by workshop quality and skill level. For example, a dwarf assigned to create a stone chair in a low-quality shop might just make a marble chair, but one with a better workspace might make one out of several different materials. That way, higher quality workshops and better skilled dwarves produce more valuable and interesting artifacts.

Maybe I'm just being a bit too anal about this, but logically the way I see it is that different tools allow different speeds, qualities and options, not only the amount of materials put into it. It doesn't matter if you're the best cook in the world. If all you've got is a pot hanging above a fire, you'd find it almost impossible to bake a gourmet cake. If you had a wood burning stove it'd be easier.

So what I would do is scrap 3x3 workshops and replace them to something similar to hospitals. with three or four one tile [maybe two or three tiles for things that'd obviously be bigger, , but I'd prefer it if these were combos of one tile items] tools being used. The specific tools would then give options for what the crafter could make. A smith wouldn't be able to use iron if his low quality furnace [or whatever the correct term is] wasn't hot enough and he wouldn't be able to make big furniture if his anvil wasn't big enough..

Actually, for more basic crafting what I'd do is just require basic tools to be in a dwarves inventory. Say to knap a handaxe all a dwarf would need is a stone with the right properties and he'd be able to it anywhere

[hanni79]

I definitely don't think a strict level cap based on the workshop value fits very well. it just doesn't fit with a history in which some dwarven cripples became famous for transforming worthless schist flooring into masterwork cheese graffiti artwork fit for a king...With nothing but their beards.  Of course, I could be thinking in the wrong direction entirely, so....

Maybe higher-quality workshops could give an inspiring boost to dwarves, and/or an averaging out of the dwarf's level and the workshop's level if the dwarf is over the workshop's level.

Valid points, but I think you slightly misunderstood. I don't want to cap Quality based on the workshops Quality, but cap the skill Level of the Dwarf for purposes of . This leads to a bit slower work and a bit less Masterworks, but not none. Even lowly skilled Dwarves will produce Masterworks from time to time, it just is more rare.
On the topic of boni for high Quality Workshops, I would like that but I think it might be overpowered. A bonus to effective Skill Level when calculating time/job could be nice, so a Dwarf in a well stocked workshop solely works a bit faster, but doesn't gain Masterwork-percentage-Bonus.

So what I would do is scrap 3x3 workshops and replace them to something similar to hospitals. with three or four one tile [maybe two or three tiles for things that'd obviously be bigger,  but I'd prefer it if these were combos of one tile items] tools being used. The specific tools would then give options for what the crafter could make. A smith wouldn't be able to use iron if his low quality furnace [or whatever the correct term is] wasn't hot enough and he wouldn't be able to make big furniture if his anvil wasn't big enough..

Actually, for more basic crafting what I'd do is just require basic tools to be in a dwarves inventory. Say to knap a handaxe all a dwarf would need is a stone with the right properties and he'd be able to it anywhere

Actually I think your proposal is extremely similar to mine, I just left the 3*3 Workshops like they are now in my proposal. On top of that you would have to fill them with appropriate tools the similar like I proposed, too. You would Dwarves let them fill up like the Hospital ( Oh god, please not It's sooo buggy), whereas I would propose to fill it like you would do with Traps, maybe with using different pages : b-w, first page lets you choose basic material, then it switches to the second page with [tool 1]. Leaving this menu without adding something would mean you only build basic, adding a tool leads to page 3 with [tool 2] and so on.
I would leave out any further limitations, like Quality limits size/material etc. completely out, as my proposal is aimed to not affect gameplay too much but still having a bit more work to do for high Quality mass production ^^

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

Maybe we could have tools. Like a boning knife gives you more bones from butchering and a meat cleaver gives you better quality meals. And of course, they can be used as weapons.

[hanni79]

Maybe we could have tools. Like a boning knife gives you more bones from butchering and a meat cleaver gives you better quality meals. And of course, they can be used as weapons.

That's one basic assumption of this suggestion, maybe not the weapons part, though.