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[Teneb]

If you say you finished the goblin creature, does that include a caste system?

Yes. They are detailed in the first page.

[Deinos]

Instead of downplaying the vanilla goblins, which are rather unique, why not devise a system that plays up their features?

Vanilla goblins are already hugely distinct:

No eating or drinking (saves on a big chunk of your time, but also means less ways to make them happy)
Can embark with tons of trolls (good for shearing as well as a cheap fodder unit)
Can have HFS or megabeast in leadership positions.
Multiracial society based off babysnatching -- some goblin civilizations wind up with equal amounts of humans, elves, dwarves, and goblins in it, others wind up with next to no goblins.

In vanilla, goblins can make a number of weapons that they themselves can't use -- like the two handed sword, only babysnatched humans are going to typically be able to use one of those. This leads me to think you could have a setup where the different babysnatched races can offer distinct advantages. Babysnatched types could offer really powerful advantages, to make up for how much work they'd be, including that they would, in fact, need food (despite that goblins know nothing about farming or food animals).

Remember, DF goblins aren't simpering little derp-beasts, they're lanky, fiendish creatures enslaved by demon overlords and enslaving all other races in turn. A goblin may very well have troll, elf, dwarf, and human minions. Incorporating babysnatched types and demons is a must.

[Godlysockpuppet]

Currently its not that easy to implement slave races. I suppose you could run a (buggy) reaction that creates a human slave-goblin caste.

[smakemupagus]

Babysnatched civ members are pretty useless in fortress mode (unless you can work some magic to fix them, which I think will be DFHack not regular modding), they can only be pastured and don't do any work.

[Teneb]

To those wondering, progress on this is currently stopped due to various real-life reasons. I have not forgotten about it and will resume my work eventualy.

[Meph]

Could you please post whatever you have done so far?

I am sure people would love to have a look and offer suggestions and improvements on the existing code.

[Teneb]

So I'm necro-ing this, as I am working on it right now.

Original idea was pretty much discarded, with the current very broad idea being a race that revolves around mad alchemy, mutation, demonic deals, minor slavery (as in, nowhere near the level of orc fort) and just throwing goblins at a problem until it is solved or you have no more goblins.

A few other notes: goblins can farm, but cannot eat plants. Thus plants are entirely for trade, crafting and alchemy. Digging is allowed, but keeping anyone other than a specific rare caste underground for more than an in-game month or two will result in tragedy.

A somewhat basic version will be released first, which I'll then expand progressively.

[Meph]

Digging is allowed, but keeping anyone other than a specific rare caste underground for more than an in-game month or two will result in tragedy.

That doesnt sound very goblin-like to me. Why shouldnt they be fine underground?

[Teneb]

Digging is allowed, but keeping anyone other than a specific rare caste underground for more than an in-game month or two will result in tragedy.

That doesnt sound very goblin-like to me. Why shouldnt they be fine underground?

Well, they build towers in vanilla. Though I think that towers will get underground parts in the next release, the main structure will still be above ground. Of the five vanilla DF civ-creatures, only the dwarves show any affinity for the underground, especially being the only ones with cava adaptation.

[Meph]

I expected that would be your answer... dark towers. Makes sense from a DF perspective, but from personal experience with the kobolds: Its really hard to do a aboveground only, or mostly-aboveground race. Its kinda planned for the elves, and I think the underground suits goblins quite well, especially considering other lore on them. Almost all other fantasy settings have goblins living underground. How else would they come in contact with demons?

[Urist McTeellox]

I expected that would be your answer... dark towers. Makes sense from a DF perspective, but from personal experience with the kobolds: Its really hard to do a aboveground only, or mostly-aboveground race. Its kinda planned for the elves, and I think the underground suits goblins quite well, especially considering other lore on them. Almost all other fantasy settings have goblins living underground. How else would they come in contact with demons?

I've noticed the new DFHack has an OutsideOnly plug-in. That allows for workshops which can only be constructed outside, which I personally think is super neat. It's got great potential for making elves a playable race, and it may be useful to encourage above-ground camps without restricting the ability to dig or live underground. Perhaps goblin industry is wildly polluting, and requires above-ground workshops for a number of things?

Another alternative to this is to have workshops which generate miasma (if that's possible), which would strongly encourage their construction above-ground, although one could build underground versions if one is willing to put up with the levels of unhappiness and sickness they produce.

~ T

[Meph]

Miasma workshops are possible, but the deconstruct after a while. the buildmats are fine at first, then rot and produce miasma, then deconstruct.

The outside only thing is very good to know. Hope a inside-only and a powered-only are in the works.

[IndigoFenix]

Miasma workshops are possible, but the deconstruct after a while. the buildmats are fine at first, then rot and produce miasma, then deconstruct.

The outside only thing is very good to know. Hope a inside-only and a powered-only are in the works.

What if the reactions produce large amounts of non-stockpilable rotting material as a byproduct?  That should have the same effect. 

[Meph]

Yes, that works. I actually used that for my "fire" you create a rotten plant that is not edible and not stockpiled, and the fire turns into a 'withered' fire, then disappears. It didnt cause miasma though, but could easily be added. It worked quite well.

Anyone up for a creature that constantly causes miasma if underground? would make for an interesting pet dynamic. I guess it just needs some really rotten bodyparts, without dying from them.

[Teneb]

I update the first and second posts with an overview of how the race will end up as and a progress list, respectively.